r/EthicalNonMonogamy

I wanted to share this not as a "My way or the highway" or to soapbox, but as a polite cautionary tale about how polyamory is not for some.

A little background. My husband and I were married for five years when we started ENM, which was mostly just swinging with some threesomes and orgies mixed in over that 12 year span. Then we opened for two years and finally progressed to poly for a little over three years.

Swinging's most difficult part for us was finding four-way connections and avoiding toxic couples.

We moved to opening our marriage to dating separately, without romantic involvement, just for fun. When we opened, our main complaints revolved around avoiding unicorn hunters and keeping our private lives separate from our fun lives.

At this point, our marriage, our family life, and our friendships were as perfect as they could be. So why not polyamory? We had so much to give, why wouldn't we share?

However, when we moved onto poly, our whole world flipped.

• We learned quickly that you can't be closeted poly. Everyone, including our kids, family, and friends eventually found out. Lots of them said that they supported us, but always with a side-eye of judgement or just a downright, "you're crazy" comment. I stopped counting all the ways others told us that 'you're just going through a fad before the divorce.' Divorce had never been a topic or thought between us but everyone sure thought they knew more than us.

• We had to become self-reliant. We had a marriage that was built on a foundation where we worked together and relied on each other; I guess this is like every other marriage. But with poly, we became like roommates, each in charge of their own areas. Parenting even became a chore and felt towards the end like we were just constantly exchanging nights so we could be with our secondaries. I was told by every partner, in so many words and ways, not to rely on my husband, even for basic things, and he was being told and taught the same. For a while this worked and I felt that I was being good to him by not bringing my issues or wants or needs to him. However, as I stopped all of that, he felt that he too had to stop. A wall was slowly being built between us, and by the time we recognized it, it was a big freaking wall. The symbiotic relationship we had was almost entirely gone in just over a year's time.

• We had to become selfish. I started to pick and choose who I wanted to be there for and who I didn't want to be bothered by; this wasn't just with partners, but with everyone around me. I became a me-first gal. When I'd meet new people, even those far removed from poly, I started looking at them with a focus on 'what can they do for me.' This is something I have never felt that I have done in my 40+ years on earth, yet, up until the point of realization, it seemed totally natural and the norm for me.

It really took a turn for me a year ago when I started to view polyamory people as insufferable. I was the toxic person I had always hated. There I was, this pretentious relationship guru who was completely self-reliant, incredibly selfish, and filled with animosity. I hated myself. I really did. This wasn't me. In two years time I flipped 180-degrees in every way possible.

I wanted to remove myself and distance myself from everyone new in my life, which at this point was almost entirely made up of poly friends. However, I couldn't just leave because I was taught that it was unfair to treat my husband this way. And you can't have one-sided rules or boundaries or whatever the buzzword is today. I was just reminded over and over that I don't own him; which is true. He's not my property; again, true. It's not my life to control; again, true. So I started fantasizing about leaving him and returning to monogamy with someone else. I sat on that for months. The thought of someone else though gutted me. How did I get here? Why was I now thinking I needed to leave him and start over? I broke down. I hit rock bottom. I found support in those around me, but it was the same, tired, advice that just pushed me further into being this self-reliant, self-absorbed, selfish a-hole. I did not like myself. I did not like what I had become.

I got myself a therapist, an ENM-friendly therapist, and she worked with me to unravel the mess I was in.

So here it is: I recognize that poly is really good for some, especially those prone to being self-reliant and even those who, dare I say, are selfish. But after three years, this is all I came to see it as for me. Polyamory is taught from the perspective of "I have soooo much love to give!" but all I saw came down to 'what can you do for me?' and 'how can I push people away while shitting rainbow unicorn dust over all around me.'

Fortunately, after my husband had two breakups occur almost simultaneously, with the support of my therapist, I confessed all that I had been feeling to my husband. When I did, he opened up that he had felt very similar to me. He was afraid to tell me because he felt that he would be too controlling to ask us to stop. There is certainly a cult-like feeling to it all for us now.

We get why some do polyamory, but for those like us, who are happily married, happily ENM, and happy to be reliant on others while they are reliant on us, polyamory can be a death pill.

I know that I will receive downvotes and there will be no shortage of those telling me that we did poly wrong. I was in r/polyamory sub for years, too, but I'm okay with this. If that one person who was like me is starting to see their world fold in on them, and this helps them have that tough conversation with themself and/or their spouse/partner, then it was worth it. My husband I have been taking a break from ENM and rebuilding our marriage to where it was pre-poly, and things are going great. A lot of discussions revolve around, "I didn't know you felt that way too!" which is great.

There are obviously lots of poly people in this group. But it is an ENM group. On nearly every post, you get poly people inserting their rules and regulations from r/polyamory and talking as if these are the pillars of all ENM.

Many of us have open relationships where ongoing romantic commitment, partner type labels and shared futures just aren't on the cards. That is very different to seeking partners where you make it clear that long term romantic commitment and/or escalation is a possibility or even intention. ​

The other thing is that people started out wanting something more "open", but maybe mistakenly used the term "poly" when it is clear that isn't what they wanted at all because they clearly want restrictions which would inhibit a romantic connection. That doesn't mean they are poly, it means someone needs to tell them to use a different term to aid communication. It doesnt mean you start telling them they have to abide by the Poly Bible written by moderators of a online forum.

One thing you have to realise about relationship forums is that their norms are formed by the membership. A lot of poly forums are highly populated by women seeking long term connections with partnered men. Therefore, a lot of what is deemed ethical in those spaces is biased towards a woman who wants to be an equal partner to someone (usually a man) who already has an established relationship and commitments around that.

The membership of these groups have changed the definition of polyamory to exclude some forms of it that they do not agree with. All polyamory has ever meant is that a person has multiple partners and everyone knows about each other or the existence of other partners. It has never meant "but it cant be couples dating someone" or "but each relationship must be equal".

Honestly, if you aren't up for multiple relationships with full romantic commitment over the long term and probably escalation as well, then don't use "poly" to describe your relationship type. It's much easier to have an "open" relationship with fuzzy boundaries then a "poly" relationship where you don't follow every single rule that places like r/polyamory insist on for you to be ethical.

My (F29) husband (M39) and I have never been monogamous, even from the beginning of our relationship. When we got married, I decided, by my own choice, to stop seeing other people, but I gave my husband permission to continue seeing others. He has always been very honest with me, and there has never been any hiding or cheating involved.

He had a few hookups over the years, but he stopped when I got pregnant with our oldest daughter. When our youngest daughter turned 3, we had a long conversation. I told him that as long as he stayed very involved as a father, fulfilled his responsibilities as a dad and husband, and kept everything balanced, he could start seeing other people again during his “me time.”

I get my own “me time” too, although mine does not involve other people romantically. It’s usually a weekend to myself, a spa day, or short trips with friends while he takes care of everything at home.

So far, this arrangement has worked very well for us and has genuinely helped both of our mental health. He has been with his ENM girlfriend for over a year now. She is childfree by choice and in her early 40s. I have met her because she wanted to make sure there was no cheating involved. She does not want a relationship with me or the kids, which honestly works perfectly for me because that is exactly what I want too. What they do in their private time is completely separate from our family life.

Here is my question: can this realistically stay private forever? Is it possible to have a separate girlfriend and sex life without the kids ever finding out? Or do kids usually find out eventually, making it better to tell them in an age appropriate way at some point?

I just need to rant for a hot minute about other men in the lifestyle for a sec (I'm m 34).

Half the posts on here are guys like having their eyelids ripped open to the fact that they aren't as desirable as they thought, dating is a challenge for them but not their wives, and if you add in ANY complicating factor (i.e. living in a rural area) it gets so much worse.

Yet like 75% of you guys don't "let" your wife/partner sleep with other men, and like 99% of the ones who do, only do it if they get something out of it too, whether it's watching, seeing a video after, or swinging.

We don't have much of an ENM community in my area, we do have a bar that's poly friendly so a lot of people go there. I go there one night, met a woman, having a great conversation. Mention I'm poly, she's like "awesome me too!" We trade numbers, chat quite a bit over the next couple days, I started talking about meeting up for a date. I'm not shitting you when I say this, her husband is "only comfortable with her seeing other men if he gets to fuck someone at the same time she's getting fucked, so could I bring my partner and we could swing, a female friend, whatever I want" as if that was like REMOTELY reasonable. Mind you, her husband has literally never even seen my partner, nor has she seen him, much less built any amount of connection. Fuck *I* have never seen nor talked to her husband.

Shit like this is SO. FUCKING. COMMON. Guys, fellow men, what the fuck? Do some fuckin work. Like I get it, I asked for my partner to only see women when we first opened up. Made the mistake too, mea culpa. But Jesus fuck, grow. It's hard, but worth it.

Just to get in front of the "swinging is a valid _____" yeah, I don't have a problem with that, swing all you want, not fucking piggybacking on your wife's charisma and having HER potential partner bring someone you've never met who would end up being *your* dance partner for the night.

/End rant

This may be a frequently asked/ dumb question, but have any of you figured out a decent place to meet people?

I'm M, in my 40s and am pretty active - go to gym 5 days a week, go to pilates classes, play in a soccer league, and meet plenty of people, but it doesn't feel like I am putting myself into the right places to meet people who are ENM/ open to relationships with ENM folks.

I am on the apps as well, and that just feels like screaming into the ether. I get likes and matches, but conversations are choppy, flakey, etc.

I have also looked for ENM-oriented events on my city and have found a couple, but the ones I've found have been cancelled or pretty sparsely attended.

Maybe I am not looking in the right places so wanted to come on here and get the collective wisdom of reddit to see what I might be missing!

My girlfriend and I used to have a consensual non-monogamous arrangement that was focused on her side. At the time, she was very into it, very enthusiastic about it, more than happy to oblige my needs and it honestly felt like a huge part of what made the relationship work for me sexually after awhile.

Now it feels like a complete 180. She acts disgusted by it, and even bringing it up seems to make her angry. That’s what has me so confused. I mean I did generally try to direct or suggest how I would have liked things to go, as playful encouragement just because she always had told me she loved 90% of the partners she had had. She had been very gung ho about it before, so I don’t understand what changed or why the reaction is so intense now. Like if I even hint that id love to see her doing some of the things she used to do(even small things like just simply talking about some of those previous partners), it ruins her mood for the rest of the day and leaves me wanting.

The hard part is that I feel really sexually unfulfilled without that dynamic. Not even necessarily her actually doing the deed, but like even talking about it was very fulfilling to me. I dread going home sometimes because I feel like I’m stuck in a relationship where I’m never going to get something that feels deeply important to me. At the same time, this isn’t a simple “just leave” situation, at least not currently. I love being around her, I enjoy spending time with her, and she meets a lot of my other needs really well and I believe I fulfill lots of hers as well.

Not to build a giant word wall here, but one of the partners she slept with ended up passing a very very minor STI onto her. That naturally freaked her out as it would anyone else. It was quickly remedied, and she even continued on after that, but roughly 2 months after the STI, she just admitted she had never loved it and never wanted to do it again. But like, throughout sooooo many relationships in my past, iv tried to get this dynamic going and they would never even attempt it. So I mean when my current partner dove head first into this world, I thought wow, now everything is where It needs to be for me and now for the last 8 months its been gone and it was easy to live without at first, but lately, its just been killing my sex drive. I dont get anything from just regular shmegular sex as im sure many of you can relate to. I need some mental stimulation at least, and thats become too much to ask for of her.

So I’m trying to sort out whether this is:

1. me being overly sex-driven and needing to get over it,
2. a real sexual incompatibility,
3. something changed for her emotionally and I just don’t understand it,
4. or a sign that this relationship no longer works for both of us in the way it used to.

In all honesty, I keep feeling like its just me being selfish as it is her body and I ultimately have no say in how she uses it. But like damnnnn, very disappointing lol.

Thank you for any advice for this very poorly structured issue. I used AI to abbreviate it for me, and naturally took alot of nuance and feel out of all of it. I apologize if this seems cold, has not been an easy thing for me to come to terms with.

We’ve been together for 6 years now and he brought up bringing a male third back in September of last year. I had to do a lot of thinking about it but I finally agreed. We have a sext buddy that I chat to online with and send nudes to and then my bf and I cum to the chat together. I do it about once a week because that’s what works with my busy schedule and the third’s

This is about the third time I’ve done this sort of thing. Still completely new to it. But my bf seems to get so riled up after it and begins demanding more. I told him multiple times I’m happy with once a week. He wants me to do it more often with him when that’s not what we agreed to!

I only agreed to this if it meant that it would just be a side thing and wouldn’t get in the way of us. That we’d be the first priority. That it wouldn’t constantly be brought up but now it feels like it’s all he talks about. He is also bringing up getting a lady on the side for himself when that’s not what we agreed upon initially since that’s not what a cuck is. Lost and need advice.

Longish post but, anyone with experience, is a threesome always a marriage ruiner? I’ve always assumed it was something that would ruin a good thing. I’m 30, I’ve been with my husband since I was 19. We’ve got two kids and are super happy together. Recently learning that I’m bi? I guess I’m just slow because i don’t know how it took this long. I’ve literally been with women numerous times before but I guess never really felt like I was since I’ve only ever dated men. I’ve always been a very private person I guess and finally just told my husband about it recently and (of course after getting the details) was like so you’re bi? And I was adamant I wasn’t until after talking and coming to the realization I guess I am. He doesn’t care, clearly is having some thoughts now, but isn’t trying to force anything or pressure me in to anything at all. He told me he would never ask for a threesome but would be absolutely fine if I wanted to try something (what man isn’t fine with that I guess) like that. At first it was a hard no and he hadn’t asked again and said that’s fine because I was enough for him, but now that I guess I’ve come to terms with everything I am kind of wanting to. I’m really just concerned about ruining a good thing, and also how do you find a third? Like we’ve been together almost 12 years and I’m beyond happy. If you’ve been in a long term relationship and tried this after being just you two for a long time, how did it work out for you??

My wife and I were together for 10 years. 6 months into dating her girlfriend she started questioning our relationship for the first time (she said she wasn’t sure we have romantic or sexual attraction anymore, even though we were intimate and really romantic with each other - dates, thoughtful gifts, trips away etc). From my perspective it was (even subconscious) comparison with her new relationship but she doesn’t think that played a role.

Cut to now, four months later, and we’ve ended the marriage as she felt it would restrict her relationship with her girlfriend (she and I lived together and she wanted to be able to live with her girlfriend and I guess pursue a more “traditional” relationship like what she and I had with pets etc). She moves on with her girlfriend this weekend, just two weeks after moving out saying she wanted to live alone.

It’s really hard for me not to feel like I’ve just been replaced. She really wants us to still be friends, and I want that too as she’s my family after all this time. But I have no roadmap for navigating this. Any advice on how we can proceed with the intent to be friends is very welcome, especially if you’ve “de-escalated” a relationship like this before!

EDIT: just because most comments are assuming im a guy, im a woman and this was a lesbian / queer marriage

My (40M) wife (43F) and I opened our marriage 3 months ago after having many casual chats about it over the last 11 years. Those early chats were about a MMF threesome or just creating a space for each of us to explore bisexual encounters. They have since morphed in to dating, flings, going with the flow etc. Well one day a few months ago we came to an agreement over breakfast. We both want everything on this new menu but we’ll start separately.

Fast forward to now, I had a one-time bi experience, and a few dates with 2 women, 1 of which is blossoming in to something with substance, though nothing sexual yet. My wife has hit it off with an acquaintance that we both know, he’s shy, very nice and respectful. He was so worried about talking with my wife that I had to explicitly tell him to please take her out and show her a nice time, whatever that looks like. They’ve had a couple of sexual encounters and a few dates.

A few things my wife either doesn’t like or just doesn’t do are important context here: giving head, receiving head, and kissing/making out. Takes a lot of foreplay out of the equation for us, which is problematic for me, I like those things and I like to get warmed up. More often than not over the last 7-8 years, when she “initiates”, our sex has basically been scenarios where she just takes off her clothes and gets in a position and frankly, I frequently lose my hard on or just can’t get there to even get started… it’s like I’m expected to be rock hard and ready to go with little to no stimulation. Further, she hasn’t put me in her mouth since forever, occasionally she lets me quickly lick her down there, and I also can’t remember the last kiss with tongue between us.

Now I am well aware that we are not sexually compatible. Unlike almost every other aspect of our relationship, it’s one area we never really gelled as we both lean submissive and just have different preferences, we don’t enjoy a lot of the same things. That’s all fine and a different problem that I’ve mostly accepted and we’ve talked it through a number of times, part of the reason we’re open. However, during my wife and her partner’s first sexual tryst, all of those things took place by her account. There was kissing, a brief exchange of head, and sex. I was certainly bothered but can also understand, it’s a new person, the first new person for her in 11 years, it’s exciting! I totally get it and was like “ok, not crazy about it but I certainly understand based on the context”. Then last week, she and her partner are texting and she was looking to me for help on wording “I want your c**k in my mouth” to something more subtle, to text to her partner. This kind of stings… I’ve felt for some time now, at least a few years that it’s quite possible, even likely, that my wife is no longer physically attracted to me anymore. I have felt unattractive to my wife for some time, and logically, it stands to reason that the reason she doesn’t want foreplay, kissing etc. is a direct result of us just being like best friends now, with no sexual spark, why would you kiss or do foreplay with someone you’re not attracted to? You’d probably just want to fuck and be done with it. While I am and always have been very attracted to my wife, it’s dwindling, perhaps feeling unattractive in her eyes makes me less attracted to her, if that makes sense? There have also been some things that have happened with her partner so far that I consider to be inconsiderate of me (timing of dates-short notice, she invited him to an event with our friends that I felt was weird, he came over very late recently and they just took forever and I just wanted to go to sleep and we didn’t sleep together that night-haven’t talked this one through yet but I’m pretty upset about it). For reference on my end, every date has had at least 3 days notice, I haven’t invited anyone in seeing to things I do with my wife or friends, and I feel that I genuinely consider my wife’s comfort during my planned dates, making sure she has something to do or is aware of my intentions for the evening.

I’m not sure what I’m looking for here other than to pour my thoughts out and maybe someone has some great wisdom to help me work through it but… I’m left thinking about whether I can handle a domestic partner lifestyle, someone who is more a best friend than a wife/lover. Can I handle being with my wife if I can logically deduce that she is not physically attracted to me anymore? I can’t really prove that she isn’t but More Than Words is one of my favorite songs because, in this scenario, how would I know that she’s sexually attracted to me if I took those words away? In a way, being open has spotlighted a possibly fundamental flaw in our marriage, one that raises other questions and I don’t know if I’m strong enough to confront them. She’s my best friend, an amazing partner, I truly feel like she saved my life.

When we met, I was making $30g a year with no ambition to do better, I was out of shape, I was deeply insecure and ashamed of my sexuality. Now I am in the best shape of my life, people tell me I look like I’m in my early 30’s all the time, I have a legit career, I embrace my sexuality and look pretty damn good doing it. I’m taking control of my mental health and am proud of the caring, empathetic, communicative, confident, nurturing, and emotionally intelligent man I am today and I credit her with almost all of it.

A smaller issue with our relationship is money, always has been but nothing that has been a major issue. But I can’t stop my brain from considering, financially, would I be better off just going alone from here? Neither of us are great with money but she definitely spends more than I do. So in essence, I’m thinking about how I pay for at least 50% of the dresses, skirts, makeup, nail and hair appointments, tanning, shoes, and more for her to look good for other people… I know it sounds petty and like I’m an asshole… I’m out of steam on this, and again, I’m not even asking for help but I just wanted to put this here and hope someone can show me a different perspective. I feel better already just dumping this. Thanks to anyone who read this far!

Wondering where this “rule” comes from? It seems like on this subreddit in particular it’s canon.

Without going into too much backstory, my husband and I are exploring ENM with the help of a well-respected therapist who specializes in it. For one of us, there is a specific person that has brought us to the ENM discussion.
This therapist has not indicated once that there is a taboo on this person because we hadn’t been practicing ENM before they entered the picture.

I also haven’t heard it listening to podcasts or reading about ENM.

Where did it come from and why is it such a hard line with this group? Is there anyone here who doesn’t agree with it?

I (27f) am coming to terms with being a serial cheater/ serial “other woman” in my relationships. Recently I’ve been entertaining things with a potential partner who is very much solo-poly ENM, and he’s expressed interest in me as a potential primary partner/ LTR.

This is all really new, and I’m trying to translate my experiences from the hiding/secrecy of affairs into the open communication of ENM. Along with the shift in being the object of desire as “the other woman” and how that inevitably will evolve into having to face standard jealousy responses and the fade of NRE as a primary partner.

For context on the “serial cheater” moniker:

I have betrayed most of my monogamous partners throughout my dating history. Even those I genuinely loved. I always kept it hidden, and I have examined this as a real problem. (Impulse control? Attention whore?)

I’ve also become the “other woman” in extramarital affairs with a few different men. Only one of those men had some kind of open arrangement with his wife on a “don’t ask, don’t tell” basis… in the other situations, all was secret.

I acknowledge the pain and suffering I have caused to all those I have betrayed or in the betrayals I have assisted by these affairs. It’s not right to keep things hidden, and I want to “come clean” with this capacity I seem to have to engage with multiple partners at once. I genuinely want to reform this behavior and I’m seeking advice on how to make this transition.

The biggest challenges for me are:

-the instinct to hide these desires, so discussing openly is very new and clumsy. I consider myself relatively articulate and emotionally intelligent, but it’s new to discuss desire so transparently.

I’m very interested to hear any advice on this, as I really feel this is the major lesson for me here. I don’t want my shadow self to run the show anymore. If I can name and claim my desires honestly, then I feel I would not continue down this destructive path…

-navigating jealousy from a new place… this is probably the weirdest one. I’ve had a solid rationalization to comfort me before: married man is married, wife is part of his life. I can accept it. But still experienced jealousy when it wasn’t a dead bedroom situation.

I’ve had the privilege (?) of being the “new toy” so-to-speak as the other woman… and I worry that as a primary, I will lose that designation. I’m not sure if it’s my preference, but it’s something that would change.

I’m not sure what I will feel or how to express it once jealousy comes from a metamour who is not rationalized into the wife category.

I understand that every relationship is unique, and that communication is key. I’ve shared most of these concerns with the guy I’m talking to.

But I am curious what general advice this community might be able to provide me as a newcomer given my background.

Please be gentle, I’m not proud of my past. I’m genuinely looking to find an honest way forward.

Any advice appreciated.

Edit: FORMER / RECOVERED “Serial Cheater.”

This is not a label I wear proudly, nor that I currently identify with. I understand that everyone has a right to be suspicious of the patterns behind this behavior, and in good faith I have disclosed and discussed these aspects of my history to the potential partner in question.

I am seriously not interested in hiding or lying or betraying anyone. I am here to understand ENM as the opposite of the mistakes I have made, and I want to honor the boundaries and limits discussed and established in any future relationships I might explore.

I have been to therapy, I have seriously examined myself and my mistakes. I am here to avoid any more pain and to seek the best avenue possible for transparency and honesty in navigating these relationship dynamics, NOT looking for a coverup for infidelity.

I (F) was admittedly struggling with this caption, but I’m absolutely bewildered with some of the comments that are coming back from women my partner (M) is getting.

Everything goes amazing via text, he right off the bat explains what he’s looking for (a female best friend that he’d like to spend time with and enjoy having the same hobbies with, seeing what it could morph into but no pressure) he’s had 2 women extremely compatible with him and then the day of the date that they asked for they back out citing “you’re too hot” “you two seem too good to be true” or something along that line.

I’ve lurked on here and noticed it’s harder for men to find a 3rd or another partner- from experience, how do you get over the rejection feeling and how did you finally find someone? I’ve written his profile on feeld and made it very clear what he’s looking for and that I don’t need to be involved but it would be great if it did work out for us to be friendly. I’m starting to feel really bad as he’s genuinely an amazing human.

Any advice?

Me and my nesting partner (NP) have been non monogamous for all of our relation (7-ish years) with varied levels of openness.

Recently, we have tested getting more involved with other people individually (it used to be more like hook up/threesomes)

We have been dating another person for the past 8 months and have been great. We sometimes do threesomes, sometimes solo sex all in our home or other places. We work really well as a triad, but I feel they have a very strong connection and I wanted something like that, I wanted to date another person and that’s where problems started.

My NP wasn’t really into me going out with other person, but agreed as long as the limits were very clear. They both meet and didn’t get along well, but not bad. More like neutral.

Last night, my NP wasn’t at home and I had a date with this new person. We ended up hooking up. My NP mentioned they didn’t want it to happen in our house but that it was ok if we had sex. During the date we make a stop at my house and tbh, in the heat of the moment we ended up having sex.

I thought of it as a minor fault on my part, but my NP is really mad and saying it was infidelity.

I want your experience for this problem:

1. Do you think it was an infidelity?
2. They feel cheated, and I probably won’t change that. How do you think I can improve things without trying to change their mind?

Edit: I forgot to mention I have already decided to end things with the new person. Also some extra clarification, the fist question is to know y’all opinion, no to discuss semantics. The second is looking for honest advice when breaking a rule (and not the discussion of the rule).

Thanks all

I (M45) have been seeing a woman (F42) for over five years now. We were both married when we met, but open. My ex, who was a big proponent of opening our marriage, had major jealousy issues with my girlfriend, even though she was more than happy to date several other partners. It always felt like a huge double standard to me. Our marriage ended for that and various other reasons.

In the years since, my girlfriend and I have continued to see each other and enter into a serious relationship. We would both sometimes see other people, and she remained married. Still, there were major jealousy problems. My girlfriend did not like me dating other people, even when I pointed out that she was still married and sometimes saw other people too.

Now she and her husband are separating. She expressed an interest in becoming monogamous, but I haven't been willing to commit to that yet. She's still married and trying to figure out what will happen with her marriage, so while she is figuring out her home situation, I began seeing someone else casually.

My girlfriend has had major problems with this. She says that it hurts her that I'm seeing someone else, but she doesn't feel it's fair to ask me to stop. She has continued to occasionally play with others, including a very close friend of hers. I've made it clear that I have no issues with that, and that I don't feel any kind of jealousy. She seems hurt that I don't feel jealous, and feels sad that I'm continuing to see someone else even though I know it hurts her.

Once again, I find myself in a relationship where there feels like a huge double standard. She continues to see other people on occasion, but she always has an excuse why it's different.

We've had many conversations about this. She has admitted that her jealousy issues are because of her own past trauma, and acknowledges that she doesn't handle it well. She tells me that I shouldn't change my behavior, and that when she gives me attitude about seeing someone else, I should just let her have her feelings and not let it get to me.

But it's exhausting. I'm tired of having the same old fights and discussions. I'm losing faith that ENM works.

I've been in a monogamous relationship with my boyfriend for over a year. I'm very happy with it just being the two of us. He on the other hand has opened up about desires to feel more ''free''. He's framing this as a need so that he can feel more aligned with himself. For me I don't have this need.

What I do have, however, is a need for an equal opportunity relationship. I told him this and he says that I'm just trying to get even with him. Since I am perfectly happy being monogamous, he says I would only be seeing other people out of spite. In my opinion, this is only true to the extent that I want equality in my relationship. I've put my desires for other people to the side to prioritize a mutually monogamous relationship. This was satisfying to me. But if that monogamy isn't reciprocated, I have no desire to be 100% loyal to only my partner.

I enjoy flirting, I'm attracted to others, I enjoy a variety of partners when I'm single but I don't miss those things when in a fulfilling monogamous relationship. His claim is that since I was happy to put those things aside for him, then a two sided open relationship would just be an eye for an eye rather than us individually chasing our unique needs and desires. But my desire is to be equal to my partner! It seems unfair that one is ''allowed'' one thing and the other isn't, no?

Thoughts?

UPDATE: I left him. Thank you everyone for confirming that I'm not crazy. This was an eye opening experience and showed me how manipulative he has been in the past too. I say this with love and appreciation to everyone on this sub but I am happy to not be coming back. Nothing wrong with ENM but I know it's not for me and I no longer have a manchild trying to coerce me into it (or weird dubiously-consensual one sided poly). Thank you everyone again for your support ♥

Disclaimer, my partner and I have been together for a year and a half and have always been open (sexually, never romantically). We date together and separate and we now have a bit of experience in both. It was something we both wanted before we had even met each other.

My partner has been seeing someone for the last year and I’ve really struggled with it. In the beginning I would have full blown panic attacks and be a bit compulsive and emotionally reactive. I have since gotten better and I have seen some improvements as has my partner but I still feel as though it’s a work in progress.

Weirdly, sometimes when my partner tells me they’re meeting up with this person I’m okay, not 100% but still okay. However, my partner is seeing this person tomorrow and all of those feelings of resentment towards the other person and fear of rejection have been brought back up but the biggest feeling of all is just pure sadness. I’ve had it a few times before but not like this. It’s not all intense anxiety, it’s not even all jealousy it’s just this really sunken feeling and this urge to just cry.

Is this some sort of stages of grief situation or is this not normal? I love my partner and everything about our relationship but I’m scared my mind will never settle.

I'm getting some ick from my NPs new relationship and I really need some perspective. Sorry it's gonna be long.

TLDR: my partner is having some issues being totally honest around his new fwb, who is a coworker, when it's never been an issue with others, and it's making me question whether I can trust him.

My(40sF) NP, Tommy(40sM), hates his job. Like A LOT. He's been talking about it for a while but hasn't really made any moves to do anything about it(this is relevant). He started training a new employee, Angelica. They hit it off as friends and started texting etc. He has other female friends so this is not at all unusual for him and I have no issues.

Things started getting a bit more than friendly so he brought it up to me and asked my advice. I advised he not date someone he works with, especially that closely. I don't inherently have an issue with workplace dating, however, his particular workplace is FULL of drama all the time. Like worse than high school, and he's already been burned by friendships at this place in ways that affect his job, not just socially. Also relevant that he's very trusting and tends to have an issue seeing red flags. Needless to say, I have legitimate concerns about him dating a co-worker but I'm never going to tell him he can't, because that's not part of our agreements or my own ethics around ENM. He agreed, told me he explained the situation to her and that he's down with flirting but it wouldn't be more than that unless he leaves that job and she was fine with that.

Here's where the issue starts. A couple days later in the evening he's suddenly invited to a coworker get together, which is pretty unusual but I didn't think much about it. He told me he'd be there an hour or so, gone 2 hours total with travel. He ended up being gone more like 5 hours. I have some anxiety around things like this so usually he's pretty good about checking in if he'll be gone longer than expected. I didn't hear from him at all. I was really upset when he got home but he apologized and that was that.

The next day he comes home and tells me that he's decided he's quitting his job and has actually started putting in applications etc and I was really really happy for him. He seemed really excited. Then follows that up with since he decided to quit he's now going to date Angelica and that they made out after work. I honestly didn't know how to respond to that. He tells me he has a date with her that night at the same place he met up with coworkers because she's only a couple minutes away from there... and I get really suspicious. So I ask him if she was at the gathering the other night and he said yes but he didn't know she would be there... and folks my red screaming bullshit alarms start going off hard. He insisted that's not why he was so late without a touch base but at this point I don't believe anything he's saying. He had to get ready and leave so we didn't really address things. He did give me a time when he would be home and as an extra step said he would check in by a particular time if he wouldn't be. He said they were just going to meet up and chat so he wouldn't be gone super long, but I'm already distrusting this for obvious reasons.

If he had been honest up front and said "I know she's a coworker but I still want to go for it" I still would have been concerned but I wouldn't be questioning whether I can trust him. We had a similar issue once in the beginning of our relationship with him saying something wouldn't happen and then it did and being gone longer than expected, but after the first incident I told him to just not say anything would or wouldn't happen and give himself extra time even if he didn't think he would need it and we didn't have an issue again until this.

He did come home on time... to tell me they fucked in his car. Now we only have agreements around disclosure after the fact, so normally this is fine, but he explicitly insisted nothing would be happening that night(which he DID NOT need to do). I'm not upset that he had sex... I'm upset at that point because it feels like once again he is not being completely honest with me. If he had said nothing and it happened it wouldn't have been an issue, but he explicitly said it wouldn't. We have been working through that but my trust is really shaky.

The last few days we've had some relationship challenges come up, not involving Angelica but the shaky trust is definitely contributing, and things are a bit rough between us. So I'm definitely feeling a little more sensitive than usual. We talked but didn't resolve anything and then took the next day and night to cool down with a loose plan we would talk again the following night(tonight). Granted we did not explicitly agree to that, so that's on me. We're texting about some of the things we need to talk about and I confirm I'd like to talk a bit in person tonight. He drops on me that he's going out with Angelica because their plans were interrupted a few nights before(the same night as our conflict but he swears that wasn't why), but we can talk after. I'm really hurt by this but I don't know if that's fair because we didn't explicitly say we would talk. I'm also not feeling great that he's suggesting we have a serious discussion about our relationship immediately following him hooking up with someone else. Plus, I don't really trust that he'll actually be home in time, even though he insists he will. It's complicated by the fact that if it doesn’t happen tonight it will be several nights until we have time to talk again and I really am not comfortable letting it go that long.

I'm realizing I have a distaste towards this relationship entirely. Not because of her or that she's a co-worker or anything like that but because it feels like he can't seem to be entirely honest about what's going on in regards to her and it feels like he's not necessarily breaking boundaries but certainly stretching them to their limits. It feels like he made himself a loophole to date her when he didn't need to. I'll also add that since that first week he hasn't really made much effort towards finding another job and the job market is really really bad right now. He's never had an issue being upfront with me about other people he has seen in the past and I just don't understand where any of this is coming from. Even if he is totally honest going forward I'm concerned I won't ever be comfortable with him seeing Angelica because of all this and how I'll deal with that. We're supposed to be getting married later this year and this is starting to make me question if I trust him enough to go through with it.

So reality check: Am I overreacting and just need to get my feelings in check about this? Or am I right to be concerned about this behavior?

We had been best friends since we were 19 (in our 30s now).

I began my ENM journey and read the ethical slut in my early 20s, so he has always known that this is who I am, and he never had a problem with this (even though he is the most monogamous person I know, still with his high school sweetheart).

The problem arose last year, when I started dating his childhood friend (Red).
Suddenly what I was doing wasn't ethical anymore. He said it wasn't fair, because I have a long term partner and Red had nobody (besides me I guess). He said that I should be mature enough to not follow a crush. He said that letting Red decide if he wanted to date me or not was not a valid option because Red is the kind of person that follows other people's choices.

Well, I didn't stop dating Red just because my friend said so, and he stopped talking to me. Completely avoids me. The most that I got from him (a year ago, 4 or 5 months after the initial conversation) was "yes, I'm angry with you, no, I don't want to talk about it."

That's it. More than 12 years of friendship, gone without a conversation or an explanation.

I felt extremely guilty for months, a part of me thought that I was really doing something unforgivable and terrible to Red: why else my best friends of more than a decade would stop talking to me so abruptly?

I'm still with my long term partner, I'm still dating Red. He is happy with me and the arrangement. On the rare occasion that I meet my (ex) best friend, he can't even look at me. And I'm still not sure what his real problem is.