r/Adopted

UK - How can I find my family?

Recently I’m really battling self-identity issues. For reference, I’m 18F.

I’ve always wondered about my birth family, ever since I was little. I even went as far as writing letters to my birth mum in true Heather Feather style (I know).

I’ve been wanting to change my name back to my birth name, I even have the documents ready to witness and sign. Just don’t know how to feel about it.

I tried searching for my mum a few months ago, going to her listed address on my birth certificate, following dead ends etc. I want to know how I can go about chasing this up, finding family etc.

I don’t really have anyone else to ask so here I am. Adoptive family are certainly not supportive of this but my partner and close friends are, so I do have a support system. Anything helps, TIA.

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u/Over_Buyer5120 — 8 hours ago
▲ 12 r/Adopted+1 crossposts

Future of my adopted sister.

My parents adopted my sister (infant) when I was 12. She is my cousin's daughter. Coming from the east and conservative, adoption has a bad stigma. Because of this my parents decided to not tell her.

Now she is 21. Since I was younger, I've always argued with my parents that they should tell her that she's adopted and educate her from a young age that adoption is a beautiful thing. They disagreed (still do) and plan on telling her when she is married and kids and have a settled life.

Our whole community knows that she is adopted except for her. I bring this issue up here and there and we always end up in strong disagreements.

I recently had an argument about this with them and reasoned how it's unfair for her future husband and her kids to tell her that identity shattering news then. My parents says that since it's been smooth sailing until now they are praying that she will take the news well.

I told them that it's crazy how they just hope that she will 'take it well' and expect to get on with her life. My parents hate when I bring this up and just tells me I should pray instead of trying cause chaos since it's currently not an issue.

Am i tripping or making it a bigger deal than it is? In my head I feel like she will have a crazy amount of betrayal and identity crisis since her WHOLE reality will change and I hate to feel but partly responsible (being in on the 'lie'). I love my sister to death and only want the best for her. And tbh, I feel like my parents are being selfish by applying their stigma, mindset, and culture instead of doing what (i think) it's best for her.

I would love to hear if there's someone had similar experience and how they went about it.

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u/twopinesco — 15 hours ago
▲ 27 r/Adopted

It's funny because I thought I didn't have to to worry about GD and I guess I don't but I guess I also have something else instead.

Because I would say that my experience with the feelings that I've been having lately have matched more of the description of gender dysphoria but it just doesn't relate to gender. But I know I really can't talk about it really with anyone else. I tried to ask a long time ago about different types of dysphoria and people just say that it's not in the DSM. Yeah, gender dysphoria at one point wasn't in the DSM. The DSM is not a Bible, it is a book that is meant to help standardize diagnoses for the purposes of insurance. It's not a Bible. The DSM not only can be wrong but also can miss things. Homosexuality was once in the DSM. The DSM is not the end-all be-all, it is a device that is useful for the purposes of official diagnoses for the purposes of things like like insurance and legal recognition for things like benefits and opportunities.

I would also say that for myself when it comes to my gender, I would not be trans if I had not been adopted. Maybe that is controversial for some people because to them you are born trans and no matter what you would always be trans but not for me. Maybe I would have still been bisexual, I don't know but I don't think I would have been trans any other way. I believe that part of the reason why I'm trans is to kind of help reconcile the constructed identity and sense of self that I had to develop. I don't believe that the way I am in terms of my gender is because I developed healthy (I'm not trying to say that trans people are mentally ill for being trans. This is a thing that is about my personal experience). I think that that is part of the dysphoria as well. I think that the dysphoria and I think that this can be with gender dysphoria too which is why I think that this is dysphoria that I'm feeling and not dysmorphia, which is it's a feeling of grief. It's this feeling that if things had just been a little bit different but you were still born as the same person so basically same sperm met same egg but something else hadn't been in your life you would have lived a different life and you're imagining living a better life. It's not just a feeling of envy, it's a feeling that because of the way society is often due to its Injustice and its structures you became systematically marginalized upon your birth often through your birth certificate. It's not just a matter of knowing you could have been Rich when you are currently poor. Because that's not quite the same thing.

I like being a girl. But I'm non binary.

u/Arktikos02 — 12 hours ago

Has anyone visited their bio family’s country? Was it all you expected?

A little more explanation, my bio parents are from Texas and Louisiana. I have always felt an intense draw/connection to Louisiana culture and people despite having only visited once as a child. I am planning to visit again in hopes of feeling more connected to a place thats “part of me”. Im worried that I might be disappointed, or feel alienated and make the longing feeling I have worse. Ive dreamed up so many situations and scenarios of me feeling immediately connected to that place. Has anyone had a similar experience? Im open to any advice!

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u/Seductivesofiaa — 7 hours ago
▲ 21 r/Adopted

I was adopted at birth by my grandparents: A brief summary of my unimportant life story.

I was adopted by my grandparents on the day I was born because my birth giver didn’t want to tell her parents she was going to give me up.

From what information I was “given”, she was basically having an affair with a married man. No one would even tell me his name until I was in my 20’s.

I found out I was adopted by being teased by the two closest people to me when I was a kid (in the time frame at least) that I knew of as my two brothers and that are twins (my blood uncles). They used it as a way to taunt me, tease me, ridicule me, hurt me.. I now feel and pretty much assume as a way to simply hurt me and (in a child’s sense ) make me know I wasn’t really the same as them and never would be. I was 8 years old.

They always made me know that at a certain point.

Fucking hell man…

I’m gonna be 41 this year.

Even before anyone ridiculed me with that fact, I knew I was the black sheep. They’re basically all blonde and curly haired, green or blue eyes, tall.

I’ve got brown straight hair with brown eyes and olive toned skin and short as fuck, something I know I get from my mom(grandma) because she’s even shorter than me.

I didn’t look like them.

Even before I was tauntingly made aware of my difference, I knew I wasn’t like them.

The years and years of hearing all the negative things about my birth giver, being brought around her while she lived in squalor in her drug addicted and abused state of living.

When I look back on those times that me and my mom would go and visit my sister “birth giver” when I was a young kid, I can see that it was either a situation where I was being brought along to see her in her shit ass life of living in trash, booze, drugs and abuse.. or because my mom (grandmother) didn’t have anyone else to go with her to check on her (my sister/birth giver).

My so called “birth giver” was always, always, always the black sheep of the family. It was very much a fact thrusted upon me, even before I was even given the knowledge of such a fact of my adoption.

She was my moms (grandmothers) first born with her abusive husband that used to rape her. I think he might have even raped my birth giver of a mother/sister too.

I don’t know.

It’s been hinted at I know at least.

My parents (grandmother/father by birth) contribute my birth giver mothers problems to her having a very bad and life threatening fever when she was a young child. I guess it basically fried her brain and she was never really the same afterwards.

No one ever wants to tell me anything though.

I remember meeting my “older brother” when I was about 9/10yo. His name is Jessie. His father took him from my mother. I have a Polaroid of the two of us together when I met him. It’s with the two of us and our “mother” too. I’ve never seen him or heard about him since then. I knew he liked basketball a lot.

I grew up knowing her two kids (both obviously younger than me, her last two with yet another different father.) I knew of them as my niece and nephew for most of the time then.

In the time period of when my mom would take me with her to go and check up on my sister (birth giver) and help out I suppose, they lived in a broken down house that was covered and layered in garbage, darkness, roaches, and an unbearable amount of filth.

Her and her then partner/husband/what ever the fuck he really was were pieces of shits. Drug addicted alcoholics that lived on the edge of town, that was the oldest part of town, in a dilapidated house literally like a hundred yards from the Colorado River. In the Cali/mex border town we live in.

I remember when my mom (adoptive) would for some fucking reason take me down to her house to try to help her out sometimes.

Like, I get wanting to help out your kid, but why would you take the kid you adopted from them to go and visit/help/ridicule/talk made shit about in any other situation, with you to go and “help/check up on”?

Like.. was it a way to “show me” what they saved me from? A way to make me feel beholden to them?

Was it because my mom didn’t feel like herself that she had anyone else that would go with her?

When the state eventually took away my “niece and nephew” because of the horrors they had to deal with. I don’t really know.. but I fucking know.. I fucking know that my “parents” called the authorities on her and had her children taken from her. And I’m more than sure it was all because of my mom, my mom’s mom, knew she was basically worthless and that she couldn’t take care of her kids let alone her self.

The state took them and they were taking into foster care at first. My parents fostered them for about a year, i remember they lived in my room with me, all three of us. I was told to be nice to niece and nephew because the had it bad.. I didn’t know they were actually my half sister and half brother at the time. But that this was all before they got taking away in closed adoptions.

I grew up knowing my mom basically hated, was ashamed of, and belittled her (my birth giver) first born child and sort of wanted nothing to do with her and always acted like she was a burden.

From the little bit of knowledge I’ve gathered over the years, I’m pretty sure (heard certain facts) that my birth giver mother and my mom (grandmother) were both sexually abused by the father/first-husband.

One thing I do know.. is to not talk about that or ask questions.

I was 27 years old and in prison when they let it slip that I had a “sister” the was born after me that had been adopted away in a closed adoption.

I don’t even know her name. Fuck, I didn’t even know she existed until 2013 in prison and my mom “let it slip” and then acted like I should have known, when I instantly became confused and started asking questions. Like it was something she seemed to think I knew.

…Fast forward some time and over the periods of me trying to connect with my birth giver after she became clean and sober in my early 20’s to August 26, 2019…

At this time period I had been out of prison for 5 years and I my son was 2yo. I get a phone call from my mom telling me the my sister (birth giver) is in the hospital and she’s dying because she’s had cancer and didn’t tell anyone.

My mom told me it was my decision whether or not to pull the plug on her because she had fallen into a coma after having a seizure and the doctors said that if she survived she would be a vegetable.

My mom laid upon my shoulders the duty of killing my birth giver. She couldn’t even make a decision about the life of her own first born child.

I pulled it.

And life’s never been the same since.

It was always kinda shit, but now it had been rolled in and baked to a crisp.

I took this picture as I walked away from the hospital.

I look at it all the time.

u/leesharon1985 — 20 hours ago
▲ 15 r/Adopted

Going to China for the first time since adoption

I was adopted from China and will be going back for the first time in about two weeks.

I’m going to my hometown where I was born. Unfortunately my orphanage is no longer there, but I’ll be visiting the welfare institute and meeting my foster mother who took care of me.

I had sent my DNA via the Nanchang Project about a month ago but no results there or any other DNA provider (Ancestry, GED match, etc).

Has anyone been through a similar experience? I don’t really know what to expect how I’m going to feel once I’m there.

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u/Sleepy-Giraffe947 — 17 hours ago

Adoptee Media

I'm really curious to discuss the different ways that Adoption and Adoptees are portrayed in media and how it has affected us.

I never really grasped just how much of the media that I watched growing up featured adoptees or had a theme that spoke to me as an adoptee.

One of my favorite movies growing up was Artificial Intelligence with Hailey Joel Osment. It only occurred to me a few years ago that it's the story of a family who lost their first, biological child, and adopt another. But when their first child returns and doesn't get along with the adopted child, the parents abandon him. The movie is about his journey to earn his mother's love.

Joe Dirt was on TV today and I remembered how much I used to love it growing up. Spoilers if you haven't seen it: !<He's looking for his parents who left him at the Grand Canyon when he was 8. When he finds them, they're awful people, who left him there on purpose and never looked for him. >!

I didn't realize I loved them because I saw myself in them, but they also sent awful messages. These movies took feelings that were already there (fear of being abandoned, fear that my bio family were awful people) and made them so much worse.

There are other movies that I've revisited recently, but those are the ones on the top of my mind.

Was there any media then or now that really affected you as an adoptee?

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u/CleverGirlReads — 8 hours ago

The New Mario Movie

SPOILER ALERT (if a kids movie that is really just set pieces strung together needs a spoiler tag)

Just came back from seeing it and just wanna let you know that the plot, or lackthereof, kinda involves themes of adoption and lost family. I was NOT expecting that and it didnt like... TRIGGER trigger me, but I am now brooding a bit. Because all I want in life is for my sisters to love me like im their "real" sister. And I know I'll never have it.

Idk, if you are really sensitive and raw about that kind of stuff, I dont recommend seeing it. That being said, the movie barely has a plot lmao

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u/passyindoors — 7 hours ago
🔥 Hot ▲ 183 r/Adopted

i don’t care about your opinion on adoption if you weren’t adopted

i love my best friend but we where talking the other night about adoption and how the argument or “carrying on the bloodline” is stupid and she said the only thing she cares about is carrying on her last name. and i was adopted as an infant in a closed adoption from another country and said that i wish my parents had kept my name because i feel like i have nothing connecting me to where i’m from or my biological family. and our dynamic is to kinda debate our opinions so she was like why would you would you want to have the same last name as the people who gave you up? and i was like life is way more complicated than simply just giving a child up. and she started telling me about how this other girl she is sort of friends with was also adopted but was adopted older and liked having her name changed and i got so mad because i wouldn’t mind having this conversation with someone else who has been adopted but i don’t need someone who has no clue what it’s like to try and debate my on my feelings.

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u/Jumpy-Lie8955 — 2 days ago
▲ 31 r/Adopted

These people will do anything to get someone else's baby.

Adoption agents you should really make sure that the money they are receiving is actually that person's own money and not from some kind of loan program or something. I think it's weird to have grants but considering that you don't have to pay it back it is technically your money as opposed to a loan. But yes I think that they should be required to have actual proof of income and assets. Going into debt to adopt is dumb.

u/Arktikos02 — 2 days ago
▲ 14 r/Adopted

How to deal with the lack of a community?

I originally posted this in r/adoption , but a user suggested posting it here.

This post won't offer any new insights probably, just need a place to vent my thoughts..

I feel like I have no community. I was born in Colombia and as a baby was adopted and raised in Belgium. I'm always excited when I meet Hispanic people but as soon as they realize I don't speak Spanish I can just feel this look of disappointment, like I'm somehow faking their culture.

It's even worse with people in Belgium outside of my limited friend circle. I lost count of how many times I've heard a form of "U say you are Belgian, but what are you really?", like the color of my skin somehow invalidates my options of being part of the country I've lived my entire life? The reason I wanted to post this and get it off my chest is because of the worst interaction like this I had recently. A guy seemed genuinely interested in me and I felt a real connection, but it ended on our 3d date when he asked me if i could, I wish i was joking, "talk dirty in Spanish". Writing it down again makes me want to barf..

I know this is a common feeling among adoptees, the not feeling fully at home anywhere. How have you all dealt with this? I feel like everyone around me, including my parents, truly want to help me and try to understand, but i feel like they will never be able to fully.

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u/EmmaQuerida — 1 day ago
▲ 11 r/Adopted+1 crossposts

Surname change

Someone posted a question about surnames yesterday, and it got me thinking about sharing my experience.

In 1995 I changed my surname from my adoptive Mum's name, to my biological Mum's surname. Why? Well, a couple of things...

  1. I felt that the surname was all I "owned", and that it belonged to me, and no one could legally, or otherwise, take it away from me.

  2. It was only a matter of time before I would get married, and have children of my own. Thus, I wanted stability for them, with regards to a surname.

  3. My adoptive Dad had his own biological son. And, I knew that his family name would not "end".

Now, why am I bringing all this up?

About 3 years ago, my Missus found my biological Mum (long story how this came about). And, me being me, I jumped right in, contacted her immediately, and express if she doesn't want contact, that is fine, just say so, and I will move on with my life. After all, I have done so already for 4 decades.

With my biological Mum, and half sister, it was the whole honeymoon phase. You know that phase, where they, the biologicals, think life if great I have my child back, yet, don't want to answer the difficult questions. Well, this went on for a while, and I gave them grace to allow them to adjust to meeting me after 4 decades. - Imaging that: ME, the adoptee, giving THEM grace 🤦‍♂️

Alas, communication and making the effort to meet up and such, always seemed to fall on me. Hang on a minute, I was given up/rejected the first time, and didn't have a choice, and now here I am, "begging" them to accept me!

No, enough! I have since blocked them both, and have wished that I did not change my surname. I have learned that she, biological Mum, does not deserve me carrying her surname forward.

Honestly, if I didn't have children, I would flipping change my surname back in a heartbeat...!

TLDR: Am pissed that I changed my surname, and should have left well alone...

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u/circatee — 1 day ago

Meeting with adoptive parent org, need advice

Hello! Some advice would be appreciated. I'm (24F) currently running an independent community for Filipino adoptees in hopes to officialize it in the furture since there is a lack of adoptee centered orgs where I live.

I will be meeting a sub organization under our city's alternative childcare services mostly run by adoptive parents. This won't be too formal of a meet but it just feels like a big deal and I worry, knowing myself, how I'd ramble sometimes. I want to be direct just as much as possible and just try to see if we'll be in any alignment to help adoptees in our area.

If the opposite happens, any advice would be appreciated, how do people run organizations independently? And how can you communicate better with organizations with potentially different values?

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u/Resident-Guitar4100 — 14 hours ago
▲ 11 r/Adopted

My biological mother has been banned from the family property.

I’ve written extensively about my situation here so I’m sorry if you’ve heard most of this already.

I’ve known bm & family for about 17/18 years now. They found me. In the beginning reunion was good. I was accepted into my family with enthusiasm and open arms. I have a huge, loving family, many safe extended family members and even grandparents who hired a lawyer to get me back.

My bm is an addict and has burned many people in the family. She thinks *I* abandoned *her* because I moved away shortly after reunion. I was unhappy where I was and wanted to go back to the city I was raised in, across the country from her. She weaponized my sister and sent me abusive messages through her over this. Ironically, she had plans to move to another country, basically 2 years after reunion. So she had no plans of being a stable presence in my life, yet expected that from me. I stayed in touch with the family and kept my relationships when she left but made little effort with her, while she made none. (She also abandoned my youngest sister in her move, who was still a minor and in HS.)

My bm moved back to the US after Covid hit. Not because of the family but because she found out her abusive white supremacist husband was poisoning her (which his ex wife had tried to warn my bm about.)

Shortly after, I decided to move to be closer to my family too and try to repair our relationship a bit. I felt bad for her and assumed she was sober. Things were amazing for 9 months (funny, right?) Then two elders in our family died. One very suddenly, and one was on hospice. My bm didn’t handle the stress of this well and went back on drugs. She started acting shitty towards the family again. (Though, looking back she always had been a bit weird. I think I was in the fog about her.)

Since taking a step back from her, (going no contact,) I was sort of forced to take a step back from the entire family. But, recently, more people are waking up to her bullshit. She tried to steal two different family properties and has alienated almost everyone. Including children. She’s emotionally abusive.

I guess I’m feeling a little vindicated because my auntie found out about her trying to push me out of the family and she apologized to me. She said my bm isn’t allowed at the family property anymore and that she hopes I will start coming by more. I saw some of my very young cousins while visiting my grandpa and they were so happy to see me they cried! I didn’t realize how much I had been missed. It was a lot. I feel bad that I haven’t been more involved. But I just could not be around my birth mother. It’s damaging to my mental health. I will still avoid the gatherings that she’s at but I’m so glad I can go to the property still.

Just venting. It’s a lot of emotions and I’m just processing everything.

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u/Domestic_Supply — 1 day ago
▲ 13 r/Adopted

Changing my name back to my Bio name.

Hi there, so for context, I have a tricky relationship with my AP’s, my adoptive mother and her partner are massively narcissistic, and my adoptive father and his wife only care about themselves and her children and grandchildren so me and my full bio sister ( we were adopted together) have been pushed out. My sister is literally my everything, im the eldest and unfortunately I have be perentified which I don’t mind. But would it be disrespectful to change my name back to my name that I had prior to being adopted (middle name and surname)? The only problem is my sister would be upset I think, she has no desire to learn about our bio family, where I have a good relationship with my bio family under the radar. So k don’t want to hurt her feelings but I also feel like I’ve got no sense of identity as I was lied to and my adoption/life before adoption was never talked about. I’m going no contact with my AP’s soon. My partner has brought up that once we get engaged that I just take his name but the problem is I want to change my name soon. I’m also worried what his family would think. I don’t know I guess I’m looking for guidance on what you would do if this was you.

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u/Extension_Duty3301 — 2 days ago

A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms

I thought I would mention this because it's rather rare to see a decent adoption/being orphaned story on tv. I watched A Knight of the Seven Kingdoms on HBO recently and the main character is orphaned as a child.

I really enjoyed the show but thought the shield painting scene in particular was so beautifully done. It really helped me get some solace when you don't know who you are or where you even come from. You can still build something. I don't want to say more and spoil anything but just wanted to throw this out there if anyone was looking for something to watch.

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u/Unique_River_2842 — 7 hours ago

🔥 FLAMES 🔥

Chatting up my bestie, we talked about our families. ADfam, BioFam and her Family.

BioF and her dad were abusive .

Got talking about closing chapters. Renewing.

I’ve never met or exchanged msg with my BioF (i msged an intro saying if he didn’t communicate back it’s all good) couldnt care any less…. I learned he beat his wives/gfs, child and abuse coworkers. Narcissistic, right fighter, smartest, best ever.

I’d write my BIOF a letter and she’ll write her dad. Still pondering if i’ll msg him a copy.

We’re planning a bonfire and burn, burn, burn those letters SING, CRY, DANCE AND THROW SOME AXES 🪓. What cha think?

I’ll lightly touch on abuse endured by my ex’s hands ; SA, verbal, physical, psychological, weaponizing disability and financial.

Ive figured out maybe BIOF abuse trickled down, DNA, through BM belly. Maybe I learned to accept it as “normalish” because the partners I’ve chosen are….JUST LIKE HIM.

How you too, (BioF), caused pain to the most vulnerable, defenceless, those who loved you and those still loving you….

You returned “love” and “Trust” as sweet nothings, apologies and promises to mask abuse.

I extend many thanks(love?) for you not being my Dad, you weren’t deserving of that title.

BioM gave me the precious gift of leaving.

I have now left the grips of abuse, teaching my child to respect family, friends, partners and animals. This child has empathy, helps others and truly loves…takes after me🥰.

I send love, peace and healing to those needing a boost to refresh, revive, reinvent, love and find themselves again, coming first so they have the strength to share.

I am enough. This child is enough and they are enough.

What do you think?

Thanks for taking time to read this, you too are enough. Always remember,

..Broken Crayons Still Colour…Just as Bright..

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u/Diligent-Article-932 — 14 hours ago

Birth father suddenly made contact and I have no idea how to feel or what to do

I’ve been in contact with my bio mom and my siblings for a year now. I’ve never reached out to my bio father but he’s not a good person at all, so I wasn’t interested in initiating contact

He’s the main reason I was put up for adoption. He and his family treated my bio mom horribly before and throughout the pregnancy. He made it clear he wanted nothing to do with me (or with my brother) whatsoever.

23 years later he now contacts me and my brother out of nowhere. I asked my bio mom if he’s contacted her too, and she says he’s repent and is remorseful for everything he’s done. She’s encouraging me to connect with him. They’re all very religious and it seems to have a component for them in some way, but I’m not and this all has me a bit confused and shocked. My sister thinks I should hear him out because this must be weighing on him for him to reach out after all this time.

Because of him I couldn’t grow up with my bio family. I was separated from my roots, my culture, and my sense of identity is just non existent. How does a “father” reject their own child before they’re even born, and how does the child sit with that feeling? He faced no consequences yet my life was completely changed, didn’t even have a chance. I know we can’t go back, and I know that him reaching out says something because yea he could’ve continued to ignore my existence. But I have no idea what I feel right now and nobody in my life understands this kind of situation. I can’t just forgive so easily. Do people like him even understand how their actions impact others? Do they even genuinely care? I think I’m a mix of angry, sad, confused, and kinda wanna scream into a pillow forever

I appreciate any advice, support, encouragement, or even a cheesy joke to give me a laugh 😅

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u/easybakeoven225 — 1 day ago

Has anyone tried DNA testing to find bio family? This same question posted only 24 days ago, but i could not ask any questions as it was a locked discussion for some wierd reason..i want to talk to others!

I sent off for 23 n Me years ago but all i gleamed was my heritage which i already knew. So it was useless for me. I think i even threw away the results!

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u/New-Needleworker-963 — 3 days ago
▲ 22 r/Adopted+2 crossposts

Chinese Adoptees and Chinese Minority Groups

One thing I find very interesting and unfortunate is the fact that most if not all Chinese adoptees are considered Han Chinese once adopted (typically transracially).

I am just now learning I am most likely Hmong (or Miao as the ethnicity is called in China), and I know that a lot of other Chinese adoptees are likely of other minority ethnic groups as well. Each minority group has a distinctive culture and some don't speak Mandarin Chinese as their native/household language.

Chinese adoptees are all immersed in Han Chinese culture however, if their adoptive families allow them to engage in Chinese culture and community where they live. I am very glad I was able to go to a local Chinese school to learn Mandarin and being Chinese, but I guess it surprises me knowing now that I may not have been even learning about my actual ethnic culture.

Just food for thought, I guess..

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u/OverlordSheepie — 2 days ago