r/PurplePillDebate

In this context her best meaning some type of sexual act or enthusiasm when it comes to sexual relations as is commonly stated when it comes to this conversation.

It is irrelevant if she was more sexually open or enthusiastic with a previous partner because that’s not the reason you should be upset. You should be upset because you are not getting your wants met. If you wanted to have crazy kinky sex then that should have been something you should already have been discussing or participating in. If when you request a certain act that you want to participate in and she declines. You have 2 options in that situation either accept that you’re not going to get what you want and leave or accept it and truly move on with your relationship.

Any extra knowledge that she did it before should have no bearing on your decision. You can feel hurt, that’s ok but you either leave or get over it purely because you are not getting the act that you want to participate in and not because you need to prove yourself superior to some other random guy.

If the only reason you would be ok with her declining sexual acts that you wanted is because she had never done it before you, then it was never about what you wanted but your need to be “better” than her previous relationships.

Just leave and find the girl that you are fully compatible with, the one that will make you feel fulfilled regardless of what kind of relationship she has with previous partners.

Dating and relationships is supposed to be about compatibility, companionship and love.

Even if she has done something before, it doesn't mean she likes it and even if she hasn't done it before she may not want to do it and may not like the idea of trying it. You should want to do sexual acts with her that she actually likes.

Not to mention sex has an important function in serious relationships of bonding and intimacy and "kinky sex" doesn't really fullfill that role ngl.

So kinky sex is honestly less appealing. Especially if it's degrading etc.

Men should just find out what things they like sexually in common with their girlfriend and go from there. If they don't have much in common then reconsider the relationship as a whole. It's toxic to try and guilt or manipulate a woman into sex acts by saying they have done it before so she should try it again. It's just going to lead to resentment if you keep pressuring her to try things she doesn't like or want to do.

Doing "kinky sex" doesn't count as giving someone a superior or better experience. Women aren't hookers providing you a servicing.

For one, women are economically independent now. But they still bear almost all the physical risk and consequences of pregnancy. And on average, women just don’t value sex in the same way men do - and even if they did, there's still an orgasm gap

But whenever women bring up these issues, the response is always the same:
"Then don’t date"
"Don’t have kids"
"Don't have sex"
"Choose better men"

But what does "choose better" even mean if there's no "better" to choose from?

And we’re already seeing the outcome: fewer women dating, marrying, having children, having sex at all

Men clearly aren’t happy about this trend at all but they also don’t seem willing to sweeten the deal at all

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This daily thread is designed to be a place for all the funny discussions on PPD.

Feel free to post off-topic questions, information, points-of-view, personal advice and memes in this thread. Here you can post everything that doesn't warrant its own thread or just do some socializing. Personal advice posting, research posts, non-TOS breaking rants, links to other locations with limited context as conversation topics (must use np links for reddit), and things would be considered low effort posts are allowed in the daily thread.

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I'm asking this because I genuinely do not understand this weird, unempathetic reaction some men get online for simply talking about dating struggles. Why do some women, especially on Reddit, instantly assume that a man venting about loneliness, rejection, lack of dating success, or frustration with modern dating must believe he is owed sex or a relationship?

Those are not the same thing at all. A man saying he feels hurt, unwanted, discouraged, invisible, or emotionally exhausted from constant rejection is not automatically saying women are obligated to date him. Yet online, those two things constantly get treated as identical.

It feels like the moment a guy expresses sadness or frustration about dating, people immediately rush to frame him as entitled, misogynistic, manipulative, or even dangerous. The response instantly becomes "women don’t owe you anything" even when the guy never claimed they did in the first place.

Most people already understand that attraction cannot be forced and relationships are voluntary. That does not suddenly erase the emotional pain that comes with loneliness or repeated rejection. Human beings naturally want love, intimacy, companionship, and affection. Wanting those things is normal. Feeling hurt when you cannot find them is also normal.

Not every lonely man hates women. Not every guy venting about dating believes women should be forced to date him. Sometimes people are simply struggling emotionally and want to talk about it without immediately being treated like a bad person. Why is there such a strong tendency online to assume the worst possible interpretation whenever men talk negatively about their dating experiences?

A lot of men in these spaces genuinely seem to believe women are attracted to “assholes,” but when you actually listen to how they define “asshole behavior,” it often just sounds like basic self respect, boundaries, and independence.

I have seen men argue that approaching women despite being nervous is somehow “fake confidence” and manipulative because women respond positively to confidence. But that makes no sense to me. A shy or introverted man pushing past his fears to socialize is not manipulation. That is literally personal growth. Confidence is often built through action, not something people are magically born with.

The same thing happens with boundaries. A man saying “no” to a woman, prioritizing his hobbies, spending time with friends, focusing on work, or not revolving his entire existence around female approval gets labeled as toxic by some people online. Then those same men internalize the idea that women only like jerks because the only alternative they can imagine is being a spineless people pleaser.

But most women are not attracted to cruelty or disrespect. They are attracted to men who have their own identity, confidence, direction, and emotional stability. There is a massive difference between a man who has boundaries and a man who is selfish, manipulative, cold, or abusive.

A man with a backbone is not automatically an asshole.

A man with standards is not automatically toxic.

A man who does not center women 24/7 is not automatically misogynistic.

And I honestly think a lot of the confusion comes from people treating male self respect and male selfishness as if they are the same thing when they are not.

There is a middle ground between being a doormat and being a narcissistic prick, yet a lot of online dating discourse acts like those are the only two options. So men end up believing women “like assholes” when in reality many women simply prefer men who have confidence, boundaries, and a life outside of chasing female validation.

Debate statement - men incorrectly interpret women’s attraction to confidence, independence, and boundaries as attraction to “asshole behavior” because many of them were taught that a “good man” should constantly center women and avoid upsetting them.

A needed edit: falling for manipulation or lying does not mean someone enjoys it

As I am sure, there are men who know they are being lead on and the signs are obvious, but still want to believe the woman wants him vs is using him for attention.

Just cuz you fall for shit, doesn't mean you like it.

And the argument that peoplr who fall for manipulation must mean they like it, should also apply that to men as they also like to complain about being lead on and manipulated or used for their money

Nothing is more of a hot button topic for the Manosphere than this impending doom for women narrative that’s been pushed by many of the red pill and blk pill content creators. One of ther favorite quotes is stating “by 2030 45% of women 25-44 will be single and childless”. This is often stated as some sort of scare tactic for women but when we peel back the numbers it doesn’t really seem to be the case. When surveyed women rank financial and career security much higher on the list than marriage and children, especially for women who are left leaning which is the majority of young women today. Men on the other hand are much more likely to value having kids especially conservative young men who rank kids as their top priority. It seems as if this is more of a concern for men than women. Most women today seem to be perfectly fine if they end up single and childless, it’s the men who are the ones worried about this the most. Maybe the manosphere should be preaching to their own audience that something needs to change about them to get what they want.

As a men, your life equals to your status. If our life is equal to our status and as Gen Z men we start from rock bottom, there is no need to fill in for essential jobs. When you are doing a essential job, No Women’s attraction towards you will raise, You will be treated as a ghost and the only guys who will talk to you will treat you as a side friend. You are not important to anyone, you are just existing. Not only that , essential jobs dont make you change your car or your house (Low wage). So there is really no point to work in a low value job.

Because that our life is dependent by our status. Which includes being rich, having a good body/ being handsome, getting girls etc. You must only prioritize the jobs and actions that will lead to make your life better instead of just existing. Your only option to get more girls to like you, friends treating you as a important person and overall society not seeing you as a ghost, is through gambling on jobs that will make you increase your status. It can include: crypto, ecommerce, influencer, A job that can increase your status with merit (Like salesman), OF manager etc.

So overall, you should drop any essential job that runs society (because those jobs are low value in the eyes of society). And Im saying this because if you don’t prioritize this shit, you will always be treated as a ghost, Womens attraction will be shit and male friends will not see you as important.

A lot of young people are pretty jaded about “love” these days. Kids that grow up with online dating & how people behave at big party colleges will probably not entirely mesh well with the concept of a stable 60 year marriage. Guys who say things like “dating gets better after 30” feels less like a reassurance, and more like a guy admitting that his wife is grossed out by him (she would’ve been interested in him before age 30 if he was actually attractive to her). House prices are going up like crazy, and the concept of supporting kids is more of a “luxury good” where people would likely just rather go out and have some fun instead.

This is based on what I’ve seen from guys talk about how they can’t filter, they can’t vet for compatibility, etc or else they are left with nothing.

Women generally care about some combination of personality, looks, and money. Different women weigh those things differently. Some women care more about personality. Some care more about looks. Some care more about money or status.

A common problem I see with men complaining they have no options is that they don’t see the value of being agreeable unless it guarantees them sex or romance. A woman who cares more about character is not interested in a guy with that type of attitude. They typically want a man who is pleasant, considerate, and respectful as a default, not part of a transaction. Then these same men usually don’t want “gold diggers,” so they don’t want women who prioritize money or resources either. That leaves women who prioritize looks and raw sexual attraction more heavily. But if those women don’t find him attractive enough, he gets filtered out there too.

So what is he left with?

Very little.

And the few women left may not be women who genuinely like him. They may be women who see desperation and know how to use it. These women don’t need thousands of men begging for them at a moments notice. They just need desperate men who wants access badly enough to ignore her disrespect. That’s where the “jester” dynamic comes from. Some women enjoy the validation. Some enjoy the power dynamic. Some enjoy watching a man perform for attention he was never going to get. Some will take the free meal, the compliments, the attention, the ego boost, and then leave. Not because “all women are like that,” but because desperation attracts people who exploit desperation.

This is a big reason why women will tell a man that it’s mainly his personality that’s making dating hard for him. If your only options are terrible women, shallow women, or women who make you feel like a jester, that does not prove women are terrible. It might mean other women already opted out his dating pool.

I keep seeing the same pattern across Reddit. Certain feminist spaces will loudly insist they do not hate men, but in the same breath allow and upvote phrases like "kill all men", "men are violent monsters" or blanket statements about men being inherently bad to circulate freely. When men point this out, the response is always that it is "just venting about patriarchy" or "It is not about you personally." As if the wording somehow stops mattering because the intent is reframed after the fact.

If the roles were reversed and men were calling women inherently manipulative or evil as a way to "vent about feminism" nobody would accept that explanation for a second. It would be rightly called misogyny and hate speech. But when the target is men, suddenly we are told to understand the emotional context and not focus on the literal words being used.

Words matter. If threatening, dehumanizing language is acceptable as long as it is labeled as "venting" then that standard can justify anything. At that point, you are not asking for understanding. You are asking for a free pass to verbally abuse an entire group of people while denying that you are doing exactly that.

There is also constant talk about "decentering men." But if the goal is truly to decenter men, why are so many posts obsessed with criticizing, generalizing, and attacking them? That is not decentering. That is fixation. You cannot claim indifference while simultaneously dedicating huge amounts of energy to negativity about the same group.

From the outside, many of these subreddits do not look like discussions about equality, policy, or improving women’s lives. They look like echo chambers where extreme hostility toward men is normalized, excused, and sometimes even celebrated, as long as it is packaged as frustration with patriarchy.

So the question is simple. If feminists in these spaces genuinely do not hate men, why is there so little effort to shut down this kind of rhetoric? Why is the reaction to criticism always to reinterpret the words instead of acknowledging that maybe the language itself is part of the problem?

Once a woman starts losing interest in a man she's dating, the worst thing that man can do is try to win her back. All that does is push her away even more. The best approach is once you start seeing the first hints of her losing interest, start detaching from her emotionally and mentally. Being emotionally attached to a woman who is losing interest in you as a man just turns you into an emotional simp desperate for a woman's acceptance and approval, which only turns her off even more and makes her lose even more interest.

The best thing to do is detach and move on. You dont even have to announce it to her. Just stop texting and calling, and more often than not, if she was initially genuinely interested in you, she'll come around after she sees that you seem to have moved on. And even if she doesn't, it doesnt matter because you're already detached and you've moved on.

I’ve encountered this online A LOT in this ongoing cyber gender war with no real solutions but a lot of finger pointing.

I noticed whenever a woman says this line, it’s always her being nuanced whenever she says the line “not all men, but ALWAYS a man,”
but when a man says it’s he’s suddenly like the foot soldier for misogyny even though his reasoning for saying it is the same exact reason that women use it: both men and women are admitting that it’s not all men, but one side is blamed for being complicit to bad men behaviors by default. while the other is praised for being nuanced.

Is it the fact they when a man says this line, it just resonates differently compared to a woman?

There have been a few men lately that have come in here to say that women aren’t attracted to men. That men desire women for their bodies. And that we are our bodies. That our personalities and character aren’t us. And since women care about mens personalities and characters (as well as their bodies), we don’t actually like men (just what they do and how they act and how they make us feel)

They say that because women think about how a man touches us, how he makes us feel wanted and desired. How we think about touching and grabbing him. How we get off on them getting off on us. That that is not liking the man. “That’s using him like a tool.”

For a lot of women hearing that men only care about our bodies makes us think that men would have the same enjoyment fucking a coma patient as they would an enthusiastic partner. Since it’s just the bodies that they get pleasure from.

I don’t think this is true. I think men get enjoyment from the things that women do too. I think men feel “like a man” if he can make a woman orgasm. If he can make her twitch and moan. That they like when we grab them. Hold on to them. Beg them. That they feel validated because she chose him (even for the night)

I think men like how we look. When we jiggle and bounce. Just like women like how a man looks when he climbs on top of us. When he looks at us. We like looking at men we are attracted to. We get aroused by the thought of our man’s chest or shoulders. Their hands or thighs. Their backs or the blessed V line. Nmpht.

So I’m asking. Do you get enjoyment and pleasure during sex from just our bodies? Does how we respond, act, feel, etc., mean nothing? Does having sex with someone you know isn’t in to you feel the same as being with a woman who tells you how much she wants you? Is it just visuals and friction? When you fantasize about being with a woman is she just laying there looking good?

Plenty of women will call out men's entitlement even when it's not warranted (complaining about not being able to get something doesn't mean you felt entitled to it), but seem quiet when women make a guy out to have done something bad simply for not wanting to date someone they slept with.

Debate statement: someone who doesn't want a relationship is under no extra obligation to relay this fact than someone wanting a relationship is and it's highly hypocritical and entitled thinking

This article in the New York Times highlights how younger men are pursuing older women more than ever. Statistically, there's been an astounding 64% increase in younger men specifically seeking older women for relationships in the past few years and over 70% of men of ages are open to dating older women.

Just about every group wins when this occurs, younger men win by getting sex and not being sexless in their 20's. Older women win because they get to hookup with younger, hotter men and to feel young again. Younger women win because the younger men they do not want stop approaching and bothering them and older men because now they can completely exclude older women they are not interested in and focus on the younger women that they are interested in.

There’s clearly been a factor in society that causes a lot of men to think that being a nice guy is a good strategy to get into a partnership with women. I feel like that has been the main message seen throughout a lot of the media that we consumed during childhood and the explicit statements of women when specifically asked about their wants in a boyfriend. Usually when asked the first thing that comes out of their mouths is that “he has to be nice”.another thing you will see is the sentiment that if a guy is having trouble getting a relationship, he must have a horrible personality or must not be treating women like people etc. so of course they will think that if I just treat women like people or be nice by not being a misogynist it should succeed in me getting a relationship but when that inevitably doesn’t work they will implode or explode.

Furthermore a lot of people operate under the just world fallacy. They believe that doing good acts should get you good outcomes especially when they are young. So why wouldn’t they apply this to dating, why wouldn’t they believe that putting in nice tokens would get them a result. It just seems so obvious. I mean I’m sure you all believed that just putting in enough hard work would get you where you want to be but that’s also obviously not true. But I wouldn’t be surprised at meeting people who still believe that.

I’m not asking you to give these guys a chance or anything. I’m just asking whether or not you can understand why there would be such a large number of Nice guys in the world. Also it doesn’t matter whether they were actually nice or not because that implies that if they were actually genuine that it would change their dating outcomes when we all know that’s just not true. Dating and attraction has zero to do with morality.

Kind of a sensationalist title, but I mostly mean it. I believe women should be doing 80% of the legwork when it comes to establishing an initial relationship. I’ve read too many stories and been to too many parties/bars to believe otherwise.

First of all, dating apps. Men swipe right 60-70% of the time, women swipe right 5-15% of the time. And of those 5-15%, the same men get almost all the attention. Women are simply far, far more picky than men. Even if you successfully cold approach a woman and convince her to go on a date with you, the odds of her having genuine burning desire for you are slim. And when there’s no genuine burning desire, you have to put in far more work than a guy that she does have that desire for. That means expensive dates, leading the conversations, always thinking of creative things to do, etc.

And despite all that, when the genuine burning desire isn’t there, none of it really means anything. I’m not a big Rollo Romassi fan, but he often says “you can’t negotiate desire.” And just because she lets you take her out doesn’t mean she truly desires you. Meanwhile, the guy that she’s legitimately interested in just has to take her to Burger King. In fact, he doesn’t even have to do that. She’ll just come over.

Second, and this is something I rarely, if ever see discussed: I believe approaching someone is an inherently submissive thing to do, and women generally don’t like submissive men. You’re essentially going up to a person and trying to convince them that you’re good enough, which can often come across as forced and awkward. When a guy does this, I believe women subconsciously think, “if he were really a catch, he wouldn’t have to be persuading me to give him a shot.” Conversely, men are almost always very flattered when women shoots her shot because men generally like submissive women. Even if she is awkward in her approach, it’s endearing. If anything, that can be kind of hot because it shows she’s really into you and you make her nervous. Not to mention, given how much less picky men are than women, as long as she’s relatively in shape and kind, he’ll more likely than not be into it. Men like women who like them.

Third, men are expected to do two of the most important things in a relationship: Protect and provide, ESPECIALLY when she doesnt have genuine burning desire for you. You’re also expected to be the emotional rock, despite what women say about wanting emotionally vulnerable men. Why would you go up to a woman and ask her permission for you to protect and provide for her? Those are massive advantages for her. Women should therefore be the ones proving themselves to be worthy of such advantages.

Before anyone jumps down my throat, there are exceptions to every rule. Some guys are very suave and good looking and do just fine with cold approaching. Odds are, these men already have successful dating lives and already have women approaching them on a semi regular basis. These things instill a lot of confidence - a type of confidence that cannot be faked, regardless of what the “just be confident bro” crowd says. And that kind of confidence, combined with their looks, goes a long way. But if you’re a guy that doesn’t really get women like that, women can pick up on it, especially in a cold approach situation where your confidence, charisma, and boldness are fully on display. If she comes up to you (or makes it easy for you) you don’t have to prove yourself nearly as much because she’s already chosen you.

So when I say women should do 80% of the legwork, I don’t necessarily mean directly approaching a guy (though a lot of them do indeed do that when they like the guy enough). But they need to make it very obvious to the guy that they’re interested. This might look like her constantly putting herself in the guy’s orbit which sets him up perfectly to make some innocuous, offhand comment which sparks a conversation (which is completely different than a guy trying to force a conversation via a cold approach.) Or maybe she’ll do something that is the equivalent of what women used to do back in the day where they would drop a handkerchief, which would set the man up to pick it up and say, “miss, you dropped this.”

Point is, when a woman wants what she wants, she shows you that she wants it. If she’s not making it obvious that she wants you, she doesn’t want you. There is therefore no reason for a man to approach, at least not in the traditional sense. Even if she doesn’t directly come up to you, if she’s interested, she’ll make it very very obvious.

A critical oversight in Hollywood’s romantic formula is the failure to address the biological and psychological differences in how men and women experience attraction. By presenting a "one-size-fits-all" version of love, these movies often obscure the reality of sexual drive and its influence on human behavior.

​The Erasure of Biological Reality

​Hollywood narratives typically suggest that men and women experience attraction identically—as a slow-burn, emotional realization. However, this often ignores the role of testosterone and sexual drive in the male experience.

​The Sanitization of Drive: Cinema often frames male interest as purely "romantic" or "soul-based," which can lead to a disconnect for men in the real world. By ignoring the raw, biological nature of sexual attraction, media makes men feel that their natural drives are something to be suppressed or "refined" into service-oriented romance.

​The "Equality" Myth in Attraction: While movies suggest attraction is a mutual lightning bolt, they rarely portray the reality that, for many men, sexual drive is a primary motivator. Hollywood instead uses this drive as a hook to get men to perform "romantic" tasks, effectively leveraging a man's biology to keep him in a cycle of pursuit and spending.

​Sexual Drive as a Negotiation Tool

​Because these films rarely discuss sexual drive honestly, they create a lopsided dynamic in real-world expectations.

​Manufacturing "Requirement": If media successfully convinces men that their sexual drive can only be validated through the "Hollywood Chase," it gives women an undue level of leverage. Men are taught they must earn the right to their own biological needs by meeting a checklist of romantic and financial behaviors.

​The Neglect of Female Reality: Conversely, these movies often fail to show that sexual attraction for women can be more selective or context-dependent. By pretending everyone wants the same thing for the same reasons, Hollywood sets men up for confusion when their "investments" in romance do not result in the mutual attraction promised on screen.

​Consequences of the "Blurred" Reality

​The result of this media manipulation is a generation of men who may struggle to understand their own worth outside of their utility to women.

​Transactional Relationships: When drive is ignored but romance is glorified, relationships become transactional—men provide the "Hollywood effort" in exchange for the hope of intimacy.

​Loss of Self-Focus: By focusing on a romanticized version of attraction, men may neglect their own physical and mental peak, choosing to spend their energy on the "chase" rather than on self-sufficiency and fitness.

​The Shift to Autonomy: Recognizing that sexual drive is a biological reality—rather than a "debt" to be paid for with romance—allows men to reclaim their time. High-performing single men in history often diverted this energy into their work, creating the inventions and philosophies that shaped the world.

​By taxing or banning these misleading depictions, society could move toward a more honest dialogue. This would encourage men to view their drives as their own to manage, rather than a vulnerability to be exploited by a multi-billion dollar film industry.

The Goal: A Generation of Self-Sufficient Men

By pivoting the media landscape toward stories of independence, the cultural goal is to create a society where men:

Value Platonic Brotherhood: Find their primary support and loyalty in a brotherhood of other self-sufficient men.

Maintain High Standards: Refuse to settle for relationships where they are expected to lose their "surface" or sacrifice their peace for a partner's demands.

Reject Social Scripting: Recognize that the "need" for a woman, as marketed by Hollywood, is a choice, not a biological or social requirement.

History is filled with figures who rejected the traditional romantic expectations of their era to focus entirely on their mission, science, or philosophy. Movies centered on these lives would offer a stark contrast to the typical Hollywood "chase" narrative.

Nikola Tesla: A film focusing on Tesla would highlight a man who viewed his celibacy as a tool for his intellectual output. His life demonstrates that a man's greatest legacy can come from his self-sufficiency and his contribution to humanity, rather than his domestic life.

Sir Isaac Newton: Known for his solitary nature, a cinematic portrayal of Newton could explore how a life lived outside of romantic entanglements allowed for a level of focus that literally reshaped our understanding of the universe.

Philosophical and Spiritual Leaders: Figures like Jesus Christ or various stoic philosophers represent a rejection of worldly romantic "requirements" in favor of a higher purpose or community-wide love, rather than the narrow focus of a single romantic partner.