r/recoverywithoutAA

I know we don’t like AA here. But im genuinely wondering how many of you all WERE in AA, left, and now drink?

Are most people in this sub sober?

Are most struggling to GET sober again?

How many of us believe we can never drink again?

What is the demographic in here, just out of curiosity.

Hello,

Recently, I made the decision to leave AA. I joined AA about 4 years ago, and it helped me enormously. I credit it with getting me sober. But with my sobriety came a clarity, and with that clarity came an insight into an abundance of contradictions in the program, that ultimately had me question whether AA was right for me, and whether I was right for AA - and today the answer to both was "no". I have finally had enough (to which AA members usually toxically respond "keep coming back").

I decided that I wanted to share my opinion and experience over several posts, that I will post here every day or so. For a little context I am a practicing Buddhist, and a past Buddhist Monk, and while I don't believe in God, I embrace anyone who does. When I speak of AA's approach to God in this, or future posts - to be clear, I am speaking of the contradictions/disingenuous approach that AA takes and it's not a criticism of anyone believing in God.

So - why not just leave, and let that be that?

Because from the very outset AA is a doctrine and a religion (of sorts), and it is/they are dishonest about this from the outset. It manipulates vulnerable and lost people with a series of misrepresentations and indoctrination from the beginning, while simultaneously love-bombing them, and despite the attestations that you can "do your own program" - make no mistake about it, you will "feel" the marginalization and pressure that occurs instantly should you share anything about your version of the program that veers from the doctrine.

How it (usually) actually works:

• It will be suggested to you that you attend 90 meetings in 90 days.
• It will be suggested to you that you find a sponsor - a complete unvetted stranger with zero qualifications - to help you "understand" the 12 Steps and the Big Book.
• It will be suggested to you that you be "willing" to believe in a God or a Higher Power.
• It will be suggested to you that you go to meetings early and stay late, to meet with people more experienced in the program than you.
• It will be suggested that you take a "commitment" so you are accountable for showing up to the meetings.
• It will be suggested call a "fellow", again a complete stranger, every day to check in.

All of these occur within the silo of AA. They are designed to reinforce the feedback loop within an echo chamber. For example if a newcomer shared "I've been listening a lot to Andrew Huberman" OR "I've been calling my friend who does SMART recovery and has 3 years sober" OR "My Dr. diagnosed me with AUD" OR "I've been reading a great book on causes of addiction", overwhelmingly (despite being able to work your own program - NOT), the newcomer will feel the chill in the room, and will be likely "advised" to talk to their sponsor (the complete unvetted stranger with zero qualifications). The reason for that is to have the newcomer reverse course, stop looking at/listening to/interacting with non-AA approved literature or doctrine.

Simultaneously, the room, and the sponsor will reinforce messages such as:

"to leave AA is to die" (Fear)

"take the cotton out of your ears and into your mouth" (in other words, shut up).

"keep coming back" (you are free to leave, but that's a really bad idea).

"that's your disease talking" and "your best thinking got you here"(don't trust your own judgement).

"Self will run riot" (non compliance with the program)

"Willing to go to any lengths" (non adherence to the program is weakness and will result in drinking again)

There are a host of other mild threats that are veneered as "wisdom". In other words, talk of Huberman, books, AUD, addiction, etc., are unwelcome in the rooms of AA. All of that "willing to try" and "take what you need and leave the rest" is generally lip service. AA lingo and compliance is socially rewarded, and non AA lingo and open mindedness is socially chastised.

The newcomer hears the same "wisdoms" over, and over and over, again. They have a sponsor showing them what to do, and they get a round of applause every time they excitedly say they are x days sober. They are psychologically rewarded constantly - AS LONG AS IT'S THE AA WAY. They are psychologically penalized if it's not the AA way. This is indoctrination by definition, and it is one of the reasons AA gets designated by some as a "cult". At the same time, the newcomer is often (not always) closing a meeting holding hands and saying the Lords Prayer. If they happen to be Muslim, Buddhist, Atheist, etc., they are told to quieten their ego and apply whatever meaning they wish (to the prayer Jesus taught his disciples).

So while the newcomer is most definitely enjoying support, accountability, and presumably sobriety, (all of which helped me), they are also being "trained" to be a good AA'er and to ignore non AA life, science, and wisdom. As a sponsor, my conflict with the doctrine of AA reached the point that it felt disingenuous, misleading, and manipulative to stay. It's why I decided to leave.

Tomorrow, I'll talk about the inconsistencies about God, religion, Higher Power, spirituality, and doctrine. And in future posts I'll talk about - disease, addiction, free thinking, the BB & steps, recovery (in AA and outside of AA), real alcoholics, carrying the message, culture and judgement, the Dr's opinion, etc.

Thanks for reading and please share your thoughts.

I love these two Aa slayers.

But nothing else does either. I don’t feel I’m in a position to knock it…anyone else feel like you’re just never going to get sober? AA is not working. But what does? Am I going to be one of the statistics? I’ve tried SMART but it’s not really available many places. 😩 my AUD is pretty extreme although I still work, pay my bills, function. So frustrating…

And I get to use this subreddit as part of my evidence 😜 I just hit 6 months sober too!

Hi Friends,

Quick background - I'm a 30 year old freelancer who runs a small company in the creative field. I'm arguably pretty successful / well known + liked for my age!

My particular affliction is basically the classic "cannot stop once I start drinking." Not all the time, but most of the time. I don't ever buy booze to have at home, I never get done with work and think "damn I need a drink," I don't like drinking while eating... BUT I have on many, many occasions gone for "just one drink," which more times than not turns into somehow finding blow, which goes hand and and with drinking until the birds start to chirp and its sunrise - bad decisions, hugging the toilet, terrible hangovers and depression for days. Etc. Used to be a twice a week thing and was definitely impacting my life (bad breakup, burnt a bridge with a friend, work struggles). Now it's maybe a once a month thing but it always starts with drinking and it always leads to gnarly-ness.

After the most recent sunrise party night, my girlfriend (who has no issues whatsoever with substances) urged me to check out AA. Not in a dramatic "you're ruining your life" way. Just in a "maybe check it out and just catch a vibe" way. I know some friends and clients in the program. So I went with a sober friend.

I've been to two meetings. At the second meeting it turned out I knew a LOT of folks there. Some of these people are friends of clients of mine and people I know through the creative "scene" that I inhabit. So I suddenly felt really self conscious that I was seen here and publicly being forced to identify as an alcoholic (you basically have to raise your hand when they do the intro, you have to announce your name and say "I'm an alcoholic" etc. etc). It also didn't help that I'm technically in my first 30 days of sobriety, and I didn't stand when they asked newcomers to stand and felt a bit judged from the people who knew I was a newcomer.

There was also a public share moment, and frankly no one was sharing. I thought "fuck it - I didn't stand during the newcomer thing- let me make up for it by sharing." I pretty much said what I said above about my proclivity for partying, can't stop once I start, etc. I was sorta cheeky and people laughed. I kept it real short. Cool.

Didn't help that the guy after me gets up there and goes: "I'm X and I'm a REAL alcoholic." Immediately made me feel weird. Like maybe I shouldn't be here. Am I even an alcoholic? Now all these socialite people around town SEE me as an alcoholic and word will spread. Idk, this could just be me coming to terms with my own substance abuse, but the whole thing started to trip me out.

Lastly, this also feels like somewhat of a private journey for me. I understand the importance of community and camaraderie, and I know that's part of coming to terms with one's substance abuse - but the whole forum and social aspect of it all felt like too much. Too forceful. People are suddenly asking my for my number after, saying we should talk, etc etc. Appreciated, but I'm not sure I can relate to all of these people and it all feels a little pushy.

Long story short - now I'm feeling like "well I guess now I'm an AA guy" and I feel almost initiated into it. Like suddenly if I don't answer these people, or stop going to meetings, or are seen at a party in 3 months from now with a drink.... I'm suddenly the enemy. A failure. Like once I left the meeting I felt more like an alcoholic than when I arrived - and not in a "wow I'm realizing how much I have a problem" and more of a "fuck now I'm initiated into this fucking thing" and all these people now identify me as one of them.

Idk! This is all new to me - any insight is appreciated at this juncture ;)

p.s. I also think it's weird that it's "alcoholic anonymous," but then half these people have stories about being homeless, shooting up heroin, all kinds of other drugs and then they don't seem to mention alcoholic in the slightest? And the big book is so laughably dated and frankly a lil chauvinistic that it seems kinda crazy that all these smart people I know are so dedicated to it. Idk, the whole thing and even "the steps" feel really funny to me. Sigh.

Never thought I could do it please God keep me on this straight path

So according to the AUD model I’m in full remission. Over 3 years. I have essentially no cravings and have largely forgot about alcohol. I’m in this sub because I’m trying to continue deprogramming. But scientifically your reward pathways recalibrate with time. Why doesn’t AA recognize this?

Does anyone else think this viewpoint is flawed? I feel insane for thinking this but every time they ever brought this point up in a meeting it always felt like the wrong thing to teach.

Like, I'm not an addict anymore because I have power over substances. I can still smoke and drink a couple times a month because I have the power to choose and drugs and alcohol don't control me anymore.

I'm sure some people in the program can't have a drink or they'll relapse but I'm completely fine to have a few drinks now and then. I know some guy who didn't even want to take church wine communion because he might relapse. But that's him, it's not me.

I have power today. I am not powerless over substances anymore.

I’ve stopped going to meetings. At first I was really scared of relapsing, but honestly, thanks to this forum and focusing on other things, I haven’t really thought much about drinking or using again. Being sober was the foundation I needed to start working on other areas of my life, and I feel like that program doesn’t really allow me to do that.

Some people have been reaching out, but I don’t feel comfortable. I know they’re going to bring it up, and honestly I’m not in the mood to listen to lectures about the program, sponsors I don’t want and won’t have, and all that stuff.

The thing is, I am actually working and studying now. I am dealing with other parts of my recovery, like not really wanting to socialize, which I’ve realized is also pretty common. I’m still going to therapy, and I’m on medication right now as a baseline. I also started feeling a bit distrustful after hearing some comments about medication, which didn’t sit well with me. The truth is, I need medication at this point, along with other things.

Also, reading this forum, I really related to the “curve” people talk about. It feels like when I started doing better—after being sober for a while—and I shared that I was beginning to trust myself more and feel some self-esteem, some of the veterans seemed to take that in a negative way. Along with other comments I’ve seen, I just don’t feel like putting myself in a position where I end up feeling guilty again.

I mean, I’m not doing anything wrong. I’m sober, I’m studying, I’m working, I have a good relationship with my family… so why should I feel guilty?

And honestly… I just don’t feel like going. I don’t really know how to explain it. Sometimes I feel bad when I think about it, but then I imagine actually going, and I just don’t want to.

I can't stand meetings. Went to a random one online and every single person was depressed. The host wasn't sober. It's all a joke.

Hey everyone, posting looking for support. My (26F) husband (28M) was trying to get sober from mostly benzos when we met. He had also used meth, crack, adderall, pretty much anything he could get his hands on. I have struggled with alcohol and substance abuse in the past but have been sober besides having a drink on 3-4 occasions since 2021. He has had relapses in the past 3 years but things really went downhill when he started using 7oh. It turns him into a completely different person. He blows so much money on it. I constantly am watching our bank account like a hawk. I have went from having to hide my prescription medications because he’s stolen from me multiple times, to physically wearing them on my body at all times in my purse. He recently got on suboxone a few days ago and I’ve been dispensing it twice a day like a pharmacist. He just bought more 7oh today behind my back. When he’s not using, he’s the sweetest, most gentle man in the world. He’s funny and kind and supportive and nurturing. When he is using he’s distant, cold, angry. We have 2 children together and one from my previous relationship. My youngest is 2 months, oldest is 8. I don’t know what to do anymore. He claims he wants to get clean and then shows the opposite. I love him so much, he’s the most amazing thing that ever happened to me but I’m no longer married to the man I once knew. Just a vent post because my heart is shattered into a million tiny pieces and I’m so tired of constantly feeling this way. How do I help my addict husband? How do I save my marriage? Someone please help me.

My spouse has been free from alcohol since August. They are “California Sober” now. We’re going to an event that will have alcohol around and readily available most the time. They say they will be ok during. It’s the days after they are most concerned with. How can I help make those days easier on them. Do I give them space, prep the house with their favorites, just go about those days normally? I’m a text book over thinker. So I’m just trying my best to make sure I’m the best version of myself for them.

Yes, I know their addiction is not my fault, and if they choose to drink it’s nothing I did, but I also know being more aware can help too. I also know that if he does drink. It doesn’t erase the progress they did make. I look at how they’ve changed and grown since removing alcohol from their lives.

I’m just looking for the best ways to make things smoother for them.

AA is a dogshit community, through and through. It's meetings are more akin to my experiences in religious services than my experiences in group therapy.

The fact that there are some good things about it doesnt matter. Yes it is a community. Yes being a good person and working through your problems in some way is good. Yes having spirituality can be great.

A broken clock is right twice a day.

The system of AA as it exists today encourages members to stop thinking critically. It's members tend to end up extremely disconnected from their body/emotions/subconscious.

Rather than learning further about oneself and growing more, AA members will often just obsess about how AA got them X amount of sober time. They will keep doing what AA recommends without seeking additional or alternative forms of self care, until it is their undoing.

There are countless examples of someone who was sober for 20 years and then relapsed and kept relapsing and died. Endless people who get a few months of sobriety and relapse, on repeat for decades. There's even examples of devout AA celebrities with decades who commit suicide.

AA tells people that they should have no agency. It tells people there is a one size fits all. It tells people it works, when IT DOESNT WORK. IT NEVER WORKS.

There are exceptions, and WITHOUT FAIL these people who are in AA and actually doing well are doing things outside of AA to stay "sober", often they live in a way that goes DIRECTLY AGAINST WHAT AA RECOMMENDS.

I knew a lady who talked up AA and had that breakthrough ketamine treatment where you go to a doctor and whole 3 times. I know a guy who is a member of a meeting and talks about staying sober, but then when other people arent around he gets honest about his plans to use psychedelics and how he doesn't agree with a lot of stuff in aa, he just likes the community.

There are people who live out their lives with just AA, and they seem ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE to me. They have health problems, they dont do shit with their free time besides meetings. They say the same thing every week at their home group. It's like a robot.

AA is a fine hobby. But its not a hobby. It's advertised as a LIFE SAVING self help program. people are FORCED IN BY THE COURTS. Rehabs are REQUIRED TO INCLUDE IT in their programming.

This situation is such a disaster and even people who dont like AA pretend its a good thing but just not for them. NO ITS NOT A GOOD THING ITS A VERY VERY BAD THING.

JUST CAUSE YOUR COUSIN IS DOING WELL AND IS OR WAS IN AA DOESNT MAKE AA OKAY. CORELATION DOES NOT EQUAL CAUSATION

Edit to add: I did 3 years in AA and have years of continuous non-drinking before this. I posted this stop drinking and was like oooh this isn’t my community!

I have been feeling so ashamed and depressed. 42 F I received a challenging medical diagnosis, I started drinking heavily with the stress, and in that week I received two separate DUIIs. Neither one was reckless or chaotic driving, but I had been driving after drinking, both were traffic stops or a cop wanting to help me whenI was crying. I suppose it doesn’t matter.

Now I’m looking at 3 years without driving privileges, my car, I’m in debt up to my ears from all of the medical bills. My life feels completely tanked and turned upside down. It’s going to take me years to recover and I did not see my life looking like this 42-45.

I am absolutely miserable and am so deep in a hole, won’t be able to pay my rent again this month. I look awful from bloating and crying. I’m very depressed.

Before all this I had a two degrees, good jobs, wasn’t a total mess. I feel like such an absolute loser.

I’m looking for any encouraging words that things will get better, because right now with illness, medical bills, having to not work due to medical stuff… I don’t know what to do. I don’t qualify for disability (though I will try harder with a lawyer.)

I feel SO LOST thank you

My friend is currently in a hospital rn but gets released soon. He struggles with drug use and is adamant that hes ready to get sober. Any useful things or tricks that stopped the cravings , or at least help ease them.

So some back story. I struggle with addiction and I’m so glad I found this sub Reddit because I’ve tried AA multiple times and definitely see how it helps people but I’m not sure it is for me. Anyway I had been on suboxone 4mg twice a day for a few months at this point and it had been helping me with cravings and overall feel more stable. Only problem is the treatment program I was going into doesn’t let suboxone so they told me I would have to taper off but that I could do it at the detox before the treatment center. So I agree and bring up the possibility of the sublocade shot to come off painfully which is what I’m currently on. This wasn’t allowed either for some reason and I’m backed into a corner with no real choice but to get of subs which had been helping me. Problem is when I get to the detox they don’t start tapering me until 5 FUCKING DAYS BEFORE MY DISCHARGE DATE! I was at the detox for two weeks before this literally not even detoxing because the only thing I was on atp was subs and lyrica both of which weren’t allowed at this treatment center I was going to. When they finally started the taper it wasn’t as bad as I thought the only problem is my discharge date was before my taper would be complete. So the guys picks me up from detox to take me to the treatment center and they say your done with your subs and you’ll be fine and that it’s just another addiction that doesn’t help and that I’m not sober if I was taking it. Not only that but they stopped my lyrica and changed it for a much lower dose of gabapentin that wasn’t equivalent and they stopped my baclofen. By day three I had to step out of group because I was sweating and shaking so much they took my blood pressure and it was something like 170/99 and I’m 23 years old with no history of hpb. They called the doctor who said since I’ve already been off subs three days it she will not be reinstating them. The next two nights I barely sleep and I can barely eat I’m a mess and no one around me is helping me. Instead I get called a junkie for being on suboxone. So I finally lose it after holding it together for as long as I could. I demand my stuff back walk out and check into a hospital detox and explain the situation. They stabilize me back on my medication and find a much better treatment center that allows suboxone and even helped me get the sublocade shot. So what I’m asking is if I overreacted or was leaving justified?

Title: Meth addiction, anxiety, and feeling like I’ve lost who I was — need advice

I’ve been using meth since I was 16, I’m 24 now. The last 2 years it’s gotten really bad — honestly embarrassing. I barely go out anymore because I’m constantly worried about what people think of me. The anxiety and paranoia are next level, and the meth mouth + smoking just makes me feel disgusting and self-conscious.

I’ve put a lot of stress on my family, and they don’t deserve that. I feel like a burden and hate the way I act sometimes — messy, shut off, not myself at all. Earlier this year I even tried to take my own life. I didn’t succeed, but part of me still struggles with that.

Another thing I’m dealing with is a porn addiction that gets worse when I’m using. It’s honestly embarrassing and not who I used to be at all. Even when I’m sober now, I still feel messed up in my head — like I’m overly aware of myself, paranoid, on edge, or just not comfortable around people.

What’s frustrating is I don’t even use as heavily as I used to — maybe every couple of weeks now — but the mental side (especially psychosis and anxiety) hits me way harder than before. Even when I’m sober, I don’t feel normal. Social situations feel impossible, like I don’t fit in anywhere anymore.

I used to be confident, funny, social — just a completely different person. Now I feel like I’ve lost that version of myself. Talking to people is hard whether I’m sober or using, because I’m always thinking they’re judging me or grossed out by me.

I know the obvious answer is to quit completely, but it’s not as easy as just saying that. I’m really trying to change and I’m sick of feeling stuck like this.

I guess I’m just looking for advice, or stories from people who’ve been through something similar and managed to turn things around. How did you get past the mental side of it? How did you rebuild your life and confidence?

Any help would mean a lot.

My dad and I both deal with our own addiction issues. Due to my addiction and me allowing it to ruin my life and all its progress I actually live with my parents now. He’s starting just now to go to NA meetings, which concerns me. I’ve been putting off going to Dharma meetings, and have just been isolating and getting high and drinking and fucking off outside of work. Seems like maybe it would be good for both of us to go to some dharma meetings together. For me, because I need some social support with sober people, and for him so he doesn’t get indoctrinated by the dogma of NA/AA culture. It’s his journey but I’d like to show him other options.