r/N24

I've seen a lot of posts/comments about fixing sleep times with things like low dose melatonin hours before bed or long light therapy. But it seems that the common theme is that these treatments only allow the person to sleep at night without actually changing the internal shifting rhythm. People either get more and more distupted over time and go back to free-running, or they have a higher tolerance for feeling tired and foggt and just accept the lower quality of life that comes with this "entrainment". This is what happened to me too, each time I tried entraining.

Has anyone experienced this differently? Have you entrained and stopped the internal cycle from moving and causing you problems in the background? If so, how did you do it? Were you originally DSPD and were able to go back to that, or was it something else?

I am wondering if we as a community can figure out why this sleep-circadian rhythm disconnect happens so often and how we can fix it. Personally, I wonder if there are some other organs we need to specifically target that are causing the problems, or maybe we need a new way to directly target the SCN? Please share your thoughts.

>A study suggests that middle-aged and older adults with stronger, more regular daily patterns of activity and rest showed signs of slower biological aging.

>Participants with clearer differences between daytime activity and nighttime rest, and less fragmented routines, had more ‘youthful’ physiological age scores.

>The associations remained significant even after researchers accounted for factors including chronological age, sex, education, and certain health conditions.

>The findings suggest that rest-activity rhythms could become targets for interventions, potentially using wearable devices or lifestyle changes, aimed at slowing the aging process.

I just wanted to make this post for those who are potentially on the fence about it. I am lucky that I found a sleep specialist who suggested this to me. I take it 6 hours before I wish to sleep, I get into bed about an hour before hand and I generally fall asleep roughly when I'm supposed to. Sometimes under sometimes over but it never drifts too far.

Due to the side effects of how it makes you groggy the next day I only take it to reset the pattern, I don't take it everyday. I only take it for a few days to solidify the pattern and then it'll stick for a while before I repeat the process again. I've had my pattern shift as far forward as to 4am in this process and this method has managed to drag it back to a 12am sleep which is my personal sleep goal. Something I've never been able to do before and would have to wait for my pattern to go all the way around again.

I take between 0.5 and 1mg depending on the availability of what is prescribed. As it is a prescription it's guaranteed to be the real deal than something OTC/off the internet which I think is quite important too.

I waited for a good few months of trying this before posting as I simply couldn't believe it was that simple.

Thanks for listening.

I genuinely wish there was a non-24 social club that ran from like 12-4AM a few days a week, so that people with n24 could socialize with other n24 people in non - bar / nightclub settings which seem to be the only thing that goes on during those hours.

Like, wouldn't it be cool if there was always *somebody* there, even if half the time you wouldn't be on that cycle.

I'm just daydreaming probably but I wish I could meet other n24 people face to face. I've never met anybody else in person with the disorder.

Hello, I am 32 F

I was referred here by a different Redditor from r/insomnia because of my discription of the bout of insomnia I am going through right now

Shortened Version:

It is now 10days since this insomnia first started, I have only slept in chunks on the 4th day for about 5-6hours(on Seroquel, stuff left me feeling worse the next day), the 7th day off & on for 12 hours(7 hours after taking Trezodone) & yesterday from 1pm - 7pm(no medical assistance)with only one wakeup, but was so tired I kept sleeping in chunks off & on until now, 4am. I woke up rather dizzy(not as bad while still) whenever I move, mainly my head, that's new.

What made them think I belong here:

Forn many years, I can even remember some in young childhood/teenhood, I often slept late, even now before this all started my most comfortable time to sleep was usually 3am-12pm & from time to time 5am - 3 or 5pm.

I just need some helpful advice & suggestions, going though this insomnia has left me rather hopeless & emotional 😭

Here is a link to my original post for anyone interested: https://www.reddit.com/r/insomnia/comments/1t90niy/comment/ol1jgsg/

If you're poor and have no prospects/connections like me, in the United States, (and maybe elsewhere), the normal work you'd have available to you is all designed to destroy the N24-enjoyer, except for 1 job.

If you work as a fedex ground package handler you can do occasional status and only have to work a minimum of 2 shifts in the last 30 days. You can pick up whatever shifts you want with the app. But first you have to make it through a few weeks of part time training period (but you can still give away some shifts while doing so on the app).

Common shift times are in the early morning range, start times from 1 AM to 6 AM end times from 8 AM to 10 AM. Afternoon/evening shifts. Sometimes overnight depending on location. Sometimes around noon depending on location.

Pay is bottom end but not all the way bottom. Turnover is horrendous, no interviews/resumes. It can be quite miserable and physically demanding. The trick is not to push yourself and always prioritize safety/skill/efficiency over speed/hustle. Speed can come with time/skill and body adaptation.

Like lets say i want to START an alarm at 1pm, then tomorrow 2pm, the next day 3pm- 1 hour offset. Looping forever, of course.

IS there an alarm app out there that supports this? cus im plain ol tired of randomly forgetting to take my meds and finding out the alarm is going off while im asleep, and startinjg to get woken up by the pill alarm that im supposed to be taken when im FALLING asleep

Looked thru the subreddit and i just found a bunch of weird confusing hypermonetized apps and one that seems like it might do what i want but is overly confusing and hypermonetized and has icky language(talking about success and willpower)(for archival, it is by set3523 and called Chronos)(more archival, a tool i keep seeing popping up is Multitimer for its countup timers, a concept im still wrapping my head around and am actively testing, its just gonna take multiple days to see if it works. I just dont like thaqt multitimer has ads and collects data when all i want is a freaking pill alarm that adjusts with my sleep schedule so i dont get woken up by my bedtime pill)

If it wasn't for clocks, I'd have NO idea what time it ever was, and if I don't look at the clock for a little while if I get focused on a task, I don't just lose track of time but I geniuenly forget what the time was and start thinking it's a drastically different time of day than it actually is

For example, today I woke up at 11:40 in the morning, so almost noon.

It is now currently 1:57pm

But, to me, it feels like 7am.

And I know that I kinda just woke up

Plus, the weather today feels like early morning weather. It's slightly cold and overcast

So I wasn't paying attention to the clock and I geniuenly started thinking it was in the 7am hour

then I looked at the clock and it's actually less than 10 mins before 2pm!

I experience this kind of thing a lot. Like sometimes, when on a nocturnal schedule, it feels just like noon to me, but it's actually like 3am. If it wasn't for it being completely dark out, I probably would've thought it was noon.

Though one time I woke up at 3am and the darkness didn't clue me in, and my phone time doesn't say if it's AM or PM, so I thought it was 3pm, and I thought the world was ending because it was pitch black and dead quiet out at what I thought was 3pm. I started frantically texting my friends about "is the world ending?! and nobody was responding (because they were all asleep) which made me worry more and I took my medication 12 hours early and it took me like almost an hour to realize it was actually the middle of the night

So the consensus on this sub seems to be that, where possible, it is best to allow your body sleep the way it wants to, in order to be your happiest, healthiest self. But I assume that advice is mostly aimed at DSPD folks, who are able to still have a consistent schedule, even if it's delayed.

What about N24? It seems like an inconsistent, constantly-shifting schedule can't be good for you? I haven’t noticed any visible adverse effects apart from major social and lifestyle constraints like difficulty keeping a regular job, committing to appointments, events, etc.

So I know most people would want to fix it for the sake of being able to fit into society and function better, but is there anything to be said about negative effects on the body and mind from an inconsistent schedule?

When I let myself sleep the way I’m naturally inclined to, I end up sleeping around the clock and feel genuinely good and rested. Of course, that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s good for me.

What makes this hard to think about is that all my life I’ve been made to feel I’m self-sabotaging, that my sleep schedule (even with just DSPD) was maladaptive and unhealthy. But from being on this sub I realised that there is merit in listening to your body, and that it is not that I am doing something bad because it feels good, but that I'm actually wired differently. Could the same thinking apply to N24, keeping aside the social part for a minute?

I’m married and my sleep (or lack thereof) has always been a bit tension point. My husband is used to it now, but still gets sad sometimes. I can’t help but feel guilty, especially when I enter a daytime cycle and realize I’m basically going to bed around the time he wakes up for awhile. It leads me to bad decisions where I don’t follow my natural cycle and then can’t sleep for days.

Disclaimer: I’m not *officially* diagnosed N24, but only because I haven’t sought it out yet. My body naturally runs on a 26-28 hour cycle, meaning I gradually drift through the entire clock and end up fully nocturnal (or vice versa) within about a week. It’s frustrating for both of us. Even for N24, my cycle is pretty extreme. I try to freerun it, but it feels impossible sometimes.

My cycle has been moving pretty rapidly lately, keeping me predominantly nocturnal. Which means I've been spending a lot of time on my phone lately. And... I hate it. My screentime amount the past few weeks has been atrocious. And it's a major problem. But, I just genuinely don't know what else to do at night. I live at home with my parents, so, I can only do things that are quiet, and within my room. And I have several physical disabilities that limit my mobility so I can't quietly work out or pace around my room. I used to paint, and sew, but due to an arm injury I can't do that as much without needing tons of breaks

All I can really do currently is read, meditate, and doom scroll. Id love some other ideas that are low mobility, quiet, and cheap

I've posted about my sleep on reddit a few times now, but I'm honestly just posting this because I feel overwhelmed right now and don't know what to do while I wait for my appointments.

I don't have anything like a sleep study scheduled yet but I'm trying to get in to see my allergist to discuss medication before my doctor moves forward with me.

My allergist said I could have Mast cell activation so she prescribed me Xyzal over a month ago. Right now I take half of a 5mg nightly. My doctor said it could be effecting my sleep partially so she wants me to talk to my allergist before we do anything else.

The thing is I've been literally nocturnal for months and its taking such a toll on me. I'm so depressed and I miss the sunlight and interacting with people, I would kill to at least be able to wake up at 12 pm at this point.

Right now I fall asleep at 6-8am and wake up at 4-6pm it's been like this for about a month now. Before that I at least fell asleep at 3-5am and woke up at 12-2pm

I miss my life and I don't know what to do right now. I miss my family, they all have lives while im just asleep, and when I'm awake its lonely and dark.

This all started late last December when I had a headache that literally lasted all the way until march and wouldn't go away with meds. The headache randomly disappeared in early march but my sleep is so far gone IDK what to do anymore.

I would stay up all night when I had that headache due to fear and pain and then fall asleep as the sun would come out.

I try really hard to fix my sleep but I fail every time.

And now when I sleep at night and wake up during daylight I feel tired during the day, even after 8 hours of sleep. I'm worried I ruined my sleep permanently.

I literally fell asleep during a haircut last week after getting sleep the previous night. No not while i was in a waiting room, while I wa literally getting my hair blowdryed I just fell asleep. Under a loud blowdryer.

I feel so hopeless. I turn 20 in a couple of weeks and my limg distance boyfriend is supposed to visit me in exactly 7 days and stay for 2 weeks. I'm worried I'll just sleep the whole time and not get to be with him.

He said he will try to help me adjust my sleep while he's here but im worried it won't work since I've been like this for so long.

I just want to be awake during the day again. I wish my sleep never got this bad. I'm scared its irreversible and I don't know what to do right now.

Six years ago, the sun was shining brightly outside like an excessive amount of sunlight at night, and then my sleep was disrupted. I started having trouble falling asleep. Then I got a severe case of COVID-19, and for two weeks I was in disarray, not knowing when I was sleeping or waking up. After that, we started to maintain a consistent schedule, for example, going to bed at 6 am and waking up at 2 pm. Initially, we could stay consistent, but then my sleep became a bit more disrupted. For example, I would sleep for two hours, then wake up and not be able to sleep again. Then I would sleep a little more and wake up in fragments, constantly waking up and staying awake for a few hours before going back to sleep. We said, let's at least shift it and set it to a more consistent schedule. After that, it started shifting, and for the last three years, it's been constantly shifting, an hour forward or two, but sometimes it shifts back. I speed up the shifting by taking medication, but if I don't take it for three days, insomnia starts. Do you think I have non-24 syndrome, or what should I do? I've been to some doctors, but they said I'm undisciplined and that I should go to bed and wake up at the same time every day, but I can't do it. Please help.