u/Pen-Emotional

supportive, annoyed, dismissive, curious etc

Hi everyone,

I’m running a short anonymous survey (about 5–10 minutes) on how people experience safety in nightlife and what could reduce the extra “safety work” many women and queer people do (planning the way home, sharing location, watching drinks, etc.), without just excluding men.

No names or emails are collected. Results are only for my own concept development. Thanks a lot if you take the time!

Hoi allemaal,

ik woon in Nederland en denk na over het concept van vrouwen-“safespaces” in de vrije tijd / het nachtleven (bijv. women-only gym, clubavond, sociale ruimte).

Ik ben niet op zoek naar juridisch advies over een concreet bedrijf, maar ik wil op hoofdlijnen beter begrijpen hoe dit soort concepten onder Nederlands gelijkebehandelingsrecht (AWGB e.d.) worden beoordeeld.

Concreet heb ik een paar algemene vragen:

– Onder welke voorwaarden kan een women-only of sterk vrouwen-gecentreerde ruimte als een toegestane “positieve maatregel” worden gezien, en vanaf wanneer wordt het gezien als verboden discriminatie van mannen of andere groepen?

– Zijn er bekende voorbeelden of uitspraken (rechtbank of College voor de Rechten van de Mens) over women-only gyms, clubs, avonden of andere safespace-achtige concepten in NL?

– Spelen zaken als proportionaliteit (beperkt in tijd/ruimte), duidelijk doel (veiligheid / toegang voor vrouwen) en inclusieve regels voor trans vrouwen in de praktijk een grote rol bij die beoordeling?

Nogmaals: ik vraag niet om advies over een lopende zaak, alleen om een algemene uitleg / richting over hoe NL-recht hiernaar kijkt. Tips voor bronnen of uitspraken zijn ook welkom. Alvast bedankt!

Hi,

I’m thinking about nightlife and the amount of invisible “safety work” many women describe doing: planning routes, sharing locations, watching their drinks, scanning the room, staying sober enough to manage others, etc.

A lot of responses I see online jump straight to women-only spaces or women-only nights.

Those can be important, but I’m also really interested in what prevention and design could look like when men are included.

So I’d love to hear your thoughts, especially from men who see themselves as allies:

– What could venues, organizers and men themselves realistically do to reduce that constant “watch your back” feeling for women in nightlife, without simply saying “ok, no men allowed”?

– Are there examples of mixed-gender spaces (bars, clubs, social events, communities) that actually work as safer environments for women, and what makes them work in practice (norms, staffing, layout, policies, peer pressure among men, etc.)?

– From a men’s liberation perspective: what changes in male socialization / expectations would help men be part of the solution here, not just “allowed in if they behave”?

I’m not looking for “not all men” answers or vague “just don’t be creepy”. I’m hoping for concrete, structural ideas that both reduce women’s safety burden and give men an active, constructive role in that change.

Thanks in advance for any perspectives or examples you’re willing to share.

Hi everyone,

I’m curious:

1– Are there already places like this in The Hague that you know or use?

2– How would you generally feel about this kind of concept – helpful, unnecessary, problematic?

I’m mainly looking for impressions and experiences from people in the city, not necessarily detailed legal advice.

Thanks!

I’m looking for examples or general principles about what makes a lawful “positive action” measure versus unlawful discrimination, not advice on a specific cases

I am in the EU (Netherlands) and working on a nightlife concept that aims to reduce the invisible “safety work” women do (planning routes, monitoring drinks, constantly scanning for harassment etc.) in a preventive, not intervention-focused, way.

The idea is not to exclude men from the venue. Instead, we are thinking about space design, policies, and procedures that significantly reduce this safety burden for women while staying open to men.

I am not asking for legal advice on my specific business, but for a general explanation of the legal framework:

– Under Dutch equal treatment and anti-discrimination law, what are the main legal limits or considerations when designing women-focused, preventive safety measures in nightlife without excluding men?

– Are there known examples or principles (case law, guidance) about when women-focused measures are considered lawful “positive action” and when they become unlawful discrimination against men?

– Are there particular pitfalls to avoid in how such policies are formulated or enforced?

I am happy to clarify the question if this is too broad, but I am only looking for a high-level explanation of the legal issues, not advice on any specific contract or case.