r/Exvangelical

I was raised Christian and grew up in a very musical family. My first job out of college was a worship director for a church. I've been a part of every worship team in every church I've been in, and worship music has been something that I could turn to when I felt disillusioned or hurt or lost.

Fast forward a decade, and I feel immediate cynicism and judgment and even contempt for anything that's remotely "Christiany". The phrases, the music, the plaques on churches that I drive by. It's all cringe and triggering for me. But the thing is... I still miss worship music. More specifically, I miss the feeling it gave me and the comfort it held for me. Is there anything musically like that out there? I don't just want "secular Hillsong" vibes because even that type of genre generates an eye roll from me. I don't even like Alex Warren because of that.

But anything that is somewhat spiritual, comforting, worshipful even, maybe god as a woman vibes or something without triggering the disgust toward contemporary evangelicalism?

It feels like a long shot, but this is honestly the one thing I miss about church. Thanks for any suggestions you have. 🩵

I was a music pastor, and on some days I find myself playing Christian music and getting the “feels”.

I feel everything is okay, I have no care in this world, my “Heavenly Father” will take care of me, all things work together for my good, I’m loved in reckless abandon…

I also imagine that I’m with a community of like minded people, all lifting “holy hands” in such indescribable unity.

I know it isn’t real. And it’s been over a decade since I’ve become an atheist.

Although I’m a very musical person (play instruments, surrounded by music), I feel nothing else really reaches the heights, or scratches the soulful depths of what Christian music invokes.

Now I see it’s all a lie. And that’s why it’s so powerful.

There is no Heavenly Father watching over me, no matter how much I wish he was there. And the unity of community only exists because we are manipulated to abandon our individuality and embrace the cult’s identity. In real healthy environments, unity and feeling of community is “diluted” by the fact that each individual is their own person, differs in their worldview, and even how they approach the community’s values.

So, part of the journey of reconstruction for me has been accepting the trade offs that come with healthy humanity: embracing the reality of the world as it is, humans as they are, and music as it truly is, stripped of the extremisms that I once enjoyed in the evangelical cult.

What is your experience?

**Investigating Ravi Zacharias Destroyed My Trust in Evangelicalism**
When Ravi Zacharias died in 2020, many Christians spoke as if a great general of the faith had fallen. I understood why. For years, Ravi had been presented to the evangelical world as one of the intellectual giants of Christianity — a man of reason, morality, apologetics, and spiritual depth. He was marketed almost as proof that Christianity could stand against atheism, secularism, Islam, postmodernism, and modern doubt.
Then the investigations came.
At first, many Christians hoped the accusations were exaggerated. But the deeper I looked into the scandal, the worse it became. The official report was devastating not only because of Ravi’s actions, but because it exposed something much larger: the collapse of evangelical credibility itself.
What shook me most was not simply sexual hypocrisy. Christianity has always acknowledged human sinfulness. What shattered me was the scale of the contradiction between the public claims and the hidden reality. Ravi was not merely a local pastor who failed privately. He was one of the central intellectual and moral representatives of modern evangelicalism. He spoke endlessly about truth, morality, discipline, God’s design, and human meaning. Yet behind the scenes there existed manipulation, deception, spiritual abuse, and exploitation.
That contradiction forced me into a much deeper investigation — not just into Ravi, but into the evangelical system that produced and protected him.
I attended Bible college because I genuinely believed evangelical Christianity possessed serious intellectual credibility. I trusted the claims. I believed these institutions were rigorous, morally grounded, and capable of handling difficult questions about sexuality, philosophy, suffering, history, and human nature.
But over time I discovered enormous gaps.
The evangelical world often spoke with absolute certainty about marriage, morality, sex, gender, and “God’s plan,” yet many leaders seemed profoundly unequipped to deal with the real psychological and existential complexity of human life. Questions about desire, loneliness, power, shame, feminism, pornography, homosexuality, doubt, suffering, and institutional corruption were either reduced to slogans or avoided entirely.
The Ravi scandal became the moment where all those contradictions converged.
I began reading far outside the evangelical framework: Jung, Freud, Nietzsche, Dostoevsky, Camus, Foucault, Kierkegaard, Frankl, Plato, Aristotle, Solzhenitsyn, and many others. Ironically, many of these writers helped me understand human brokenness and self-deception more honestly than the evangelical systems that claimed moral certainty.
Nietzsche especially disturbed me because he saw something terrifying long before modern evangelical scandals erupted: institutions can preach morality while unconsciously serving power, status, fear, and self-preservation. Once I began examining Ravi through that lens, I could no longer see the scandal as an isolated moral failure. It looked systemic.
What disturbed me further was watching parts of evangelical culture react defensively. Some minimized the scandal. Some shifted immediately to “we are all sinners.” Others treated the exposure itself as the greater danger because it harmed Christian witness. But truth matters. If Christianity cannot face truth about itself, then what moral authority does it actually possess?
For me, the Ravi investigation became spiritually catastrophic because it forced a question I could no longer avoid:
What happens when the people who claim to possess ultimate truth consistently fail to demonstrate basic moral and psychological integrity?
That question changed my life.
Oddly enough, I still think Christianity asks some of the deepest questions humanity has ever confronted: suffering, sacrifice, forgiveness, evil, meaning, death, redemption. But I no longer believe evangelical institutions are automatically trustworthy simply because they use Christian language.
The Ravi scandal taught me that charisma is not wisdom. Intelligence is not integrity. Apologetics is not holiness. Public certainty is not private truth.
And perhaps most painfully: entire religious systems can become very skilled at protecting appearances while failing to understand the human soul underneath.
I know many Christians will read this defensively. I understand that instinct. But I also think the church will continue collapsing in credibility unless it learns how to confront reality honestly — even when the truth is humiliating.
Because eventually, reality always wins.

So we’re all familiar with the classics, Halloween was bad, Pokemon was bad (demons!!!) Disney was bad (magic!!!!) Santa Claus (don’t get me started—Santa is an anagram for Satan!!!)

But I just remembered that Barbies were also bad! Especially Ken, for reasons unknown. This had nothing to do with worrying about body image or eating disorders or just not wanting to buy them. These dolls were BAD.

Did any of you experience completely random things suddenly being bad?

Like no wonder I had such bad anxiety as a child. Apparently a toy can be evil!

I’ve been trying for a year now to hang onto the label Christian at all costs. For how deep that piece of my identity has been. For the nostalgia. For my family who it gives some hope for me. For the fact that I really, really wish this was a world made by a loving God.

I’m not a Christian. I’m not some weird in between progressive agnostic post-evangelical who’s technically an atheist. I’m just an atheist. A non believer. An apostate.

It makes me sad. But it’s honest. And I’m done faking.

I was raised in a deeply conservative branch of Christianity. It never felt right to me; I always had questions and never found the peace or certainty others found in it. 18 months ago, in my late 30's, I finally quit. However, I haven't told my parents.

There's a few reasons. It will be a scandal when everyone finds out. People will be calling and writing to let me know they're praying for me to come back. Also, it's one of the sects that promotes what is basically shunning--social interaction stops so the "sinner" will change their ways. My relationship with my parents will change drastically. I'm fully expecting that once they find out, I will never spend another holiday/birthday/celebration with them. At most, our interactions will be them trying to convince me to return to church.

I'm struggling so much with the idea of losing my relationship with them (even though we're not super close now) and the knowledge that I'll be a disappointment to them. I think it would be easier on me if they would be angry about it, but I know they'll just be heartbroken. Logically, I know it wasn't fair that I was pushed into this religion, and that I'm not in the wrong. But emotionally, I'm so resistant to them finding out. I've been working on it in therapy, but I can't seem to make progress in this area.

Does anyone have any advice for dealing with this either before they find out or after (and they will definitely find out eventually, hiding it forever is not an option)?

I’ve been deep into deconstruction the past few days, going through a lot of heavy emotions. One conclusion I’ve come to is that, Jesus, the figurehead for the most successful cult ever created, the mascot, the Trump, so to speak, of the first MAGA movement…

…but way more effective, and way more evil.

Jesus is the greatest piece of shit who ever lived.

I was talking to my very atheist friend, who was also an exvie, and somehow my perspective was even too extreme for him. He said, “well I think Paul was worse than Jesus, because Paul really preached the hellfire and brimstone and Jesus not so much. I agree with about 80% of what Jesus said.” and I asked him, so you think 80% is enough? If someone is 80% good but the 20% diddles children, it really doesn’t matter what the 80% was. In fact, someone who is 80% good and does 20% evil is actually more dangerous than someone who’s obviously evil. The wolf in sheep’s clothing. Jesus gave us the image of him as the Shepherd, but he is the wolf, make no mistake.

Jesus and Paul are still feeding you the same toxic bullshit. In Jesus‘s theology, hell exists, and he is the only way to salvation. Jesus is literally quoted saying that you have to forsake your own children for him. Think about it. This is just some random fucking bearded, unwashed, homeless, white guy…the ultimate cult leader, the ultimate lazy, fucking asshole who is blessed with the power of manipulation, who knows how to say the right things to trick vulnerable people into giving him what he wants, always making it about himself…

….the first narcissist. The greatest narcissist.

(Matthew 10:37 NIV): "Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me"….

Guys. A homeless guy said that. Someone actually wrote it down. Not only did they write it down. They believed it, and they spread it to every inch of the world, and they still believe it for over 2000 years.

The reason, my trans sister committed suicide in 2018 was because my father refused to accept her because of his faith in Christianity. He chose Jesus over his son. He obeyed Jesus’s teaching.

Imagine that kind of power? To be a homeless guy from the desert, wander in, say some dumb shit, and 2000+ years later an innocent trans girl kills herself.

Think about all the pain caused in between.

It’s unimaginable.

Jesus H. Christ is the most successful and damaging cult leader, perhaps human being, that has ever lived on earth.

If I was an alien coming to examine all of human history, I would look at it and say, “Well, who did the most damage? Near the top of the list people like Hitler, Genghis Khan, but they all pale in comparison to Jesus, who fucked with people’s minds for 2000 years and counting, billions and billions and billions of people abused by one narcissistic dipshit with a good story.

Trump will never be an ounce of the villian that Jesus was…

…but what about the next guy?
All the next fucking narcissist who applies for the job needs to do is take a page out of Jesus’s playbook…

That person could be 10 times more dangerous than anything we’ve experienced yet…

I hate the Bible more than any book I've ever read or been forced to read. Not only is it full of all sorts of amoral and horrific sentiments, but it's boring AF. All the stories are in the Old Testament, which I absolutely detest. As for the New Testament, it starts out promising wonderful things like new life in Christ, unconditional love, etc. But then it ends with Revelation and Christ killing unbelievers. Hard to believe it's the same man who died on the cross. "Forgive them, Father" - up to a point.

I used to love "God's Word" and read it every day.

Now I wonder why I ever fell for it.

I feel so much anger inside of me for how I was raised and church teachings. Does anyone have advice on how to heal and not be so rageful? Nothing is off limits. I want to move on and not hold onto all of this.

Thanks friends 💜

Me (33F) and my best friend (33F) grew up in a white Christian nationalist evangelical cult together.
We got married very young as you do in a cult. She married my brother. I married another boy in the cult. We bought houses and had babies and gardened and made our own clothes and milked goats together. We did holidays and cult things together. We did everything together.

At the age of 23 our cult leader decided that my friend had demons and we needed to shun her. Our cult leader made me choose between the cult or my brother and sister in law (my best friend) If I chose my brother and sister in law I'd lose the rest of my whole family and the cult was all I ever knew and everyone in it.

But i was already starting to question things, something did not feel right. So I chose my brother and sister in law. And this started my deconstruction journey. My husband and my brother and my best friend now shunned and on our own, helping each other and growing together. It was very scary. We no longer had parents or siblings. (I had 12 siblings) or grandparents or aunts and uncles. Just us against the world.
As you can imagine we got very close. My best friends mom also came with us to the outside world so she was very close to us all as well. She had helped me on my wedding so it was nice to have her still with me as I no longer had a mom. She was not perfect but i cherished her.

On our healing journey my brother and his family went for another high demand religion still evangelical Christianity just not our cult.
My husband and I went the complete opposite, atheist, polyamorous, trying all the new things, pride progrades, nudist beaches.

Yet we still stayed such close friends. Our kids growing up as close cousins. And still spending every holiday together. The deeper I got into the left of politics the more people would tell me to cut my family out. The deeper my grind got back into right politics her friends would tell her to cut me out. Year after year past. Still doing everything together.
We always being on the opposite sides me at BLM protest and women marches. My friend anti-vax and homeschooling. Me in a matriarchy her in a patriarchy. But we still met in the middle every month. We loved each other so much!

Then one day comes to mind. The day Charlie Kirk passed - my friend very upset tells me she wants to cancel her plans with us that week. Knowing we are on opposite sides of this matter and may need some time to heal with how upset she was before we get back together. I totally agree and understand. I tell her to take as much time as she needs and I'll be here for her when she is ready. 2 months go by with no word. I give her space to heal. Then she messages me saying she misses me and is ready to hang out again. I'm so happy. And things pic up back to normal. The space felt healthy.

Months go by. And then. She is getting ready to move. I am over at her house helping her move. She wants to move states away to go to a more Republican state. I'm happy she is happy to move.
Im excited for her new adventure. We are talking about how fun our cross country road trip will be getting her to her new home. I notice she is anxious about the government and vaccines and homeschooling laws and this new state will help her feel calm.

She has always supported me through my journeys even if she did not agree. So I do the same.
So during helping her move her mom is weird with me. I notice She has been getting more and more weird with me. She is rolling her eyes, being aggressive with her words. Not cussing or yelling.
Just not kind. She's been acting more cold and distanced and disrespectful. And this was finally the time I talked with my best friend about it.

She is shy to say. But she tells me that her mom no longer wants to be around me. She was only my friend for so long because she thought she could change me. The lady who said to me so many years ago that she would be my stand in mom after the cult chinned us. Told her daughter to tell me that I am no longer allowed at her house because I'm full of sin and I clearly am not going to be convicted back so she is done trying.

I ask my friend about our plans to help her move.
She said it would probably be best if I did not help so that I don't upset her mom more. She said we can meet in the middle for a small trip after they are settled. I tell I don't want to meet in the middle. My friend gets uncomfortable.

I say what about holidays. Her mom is going to live with her at the new place, what about visiting her her new house. She says maybe we can just be phone friends. I yell again. I don’t want to be phone friends!

I go into a panic attack. I'm right back at the cult at 20 years old being shunned again. I hang up the phone on my friend. I'm crying.

The next few days we talk thoroughly about this all.
Mostly crying from my part. Then I ask my brother what he thinks. He waits a month to reply back to me and then says I think it's better if we don't talk and take a brake for three months because you women are always so emotional. And him as the leader of his house needs to protect his wife's peace and I'm making her upset. I think that I was just at his house last month helping him organize his incredibly cluttered work room. We spent 3 days on it. I organized every tool and bult and thing. Labeled and stored away beautifully. Idk why I’m think of this. Just seems to piss me off.

And I said okay.

I unfriend them from Facebook. And the people I called every day I have now not called in three months.

After three months they message me asking how I’m doing and if I want to talk now. During this time I got a Brest reduction, they said they would help, they did not. I got promoted, we had talked about me getting this promotion, they were not there for me to call in excitement. And during this time there house did not sell. Kinda made me happy because I know they wanted that so bad! And here they are. Still stuck in this state.

And honestly? I don’t want to reply. Part of me feels like they abandoned me when I needed them, and another part of me feels guilty because we survived so much together.

AITAH for not responding and possibly ending the friendship permanently?

A video popped up of someone watching Phil Keaggy and was impressed with his guitar playing.

It reminded me that as much crap there was in CCM there were some real diamonds as well.

So what musicians/bands did you leave behind but in hindsight you realize were actually good at their craft?

My other nominees would have Sweet Comfort Band, Rich Mullins, and PFR. Different genres but they seemed to be following their own paths not just succumbing to the Christian high powers (i.e. A&R Executives).

I can see how evangelicals could become disillusioned with Protestantism. perhaps they are looking for more continuity. plus these ancient traditions have richer theologies than Protestantism.

I haven’t been an Evangelical for a while but I held on to a certain view around him. In mainline Protestant circles Jesus is often something like MLK for his times. But now digging into historical Jesus research without a specific religious setting this seems to not be the case. Ehrman makes an extremely compelling case in Jesus: Apocalyptic Prophet of the New Millennium that Jesus was an apocalyptic figure who believed the son of man (who is separate from him and originally from Daniel) would come and create a new kingdom of God on the earth in a relatively short period. Looking into the Historical Jesus academic journal it’s clear this is pretty much the scholarly majority opinion. I’ve been digging into even more scholarship with the book They Suffered Under Pontius Pilate and he makes the point that there is a lot of violent pieces that remain in the text although they seem massaged. Jesus tells his disciples to get swords. They all seem to have swords (wouldn’t a nonviolent group following a nonviolent teacher know by that point not to have swords). There is violence done when he is taken but the retelling in the Gospels is really unbelievable (someone pulls a sword out and cuts an ear off and the Romans don’t do anything???). The whole “live by the sword” line is in Matthew but not Mark (which was the likely older Gospel). There's so much more I could say from the two books.

It's hitting me hard in a weird way and I can't explain why.

Thank you everyone for your feedback in the original post (https://www.reddit.com/r/Exvangelical/s/5hje9Xs5Tq). In an effort to pare it down and give it more focus, I kept thinking, “if we’re never going to talk about these things again, what do I need to say?” This is what I came up with, as well as his response:

Dad,

As I hope you can tell from my prolonged silence, I did not have the same positive feelings about our “conversation” a few weeks ago. To tell you the truth, this is the first time that I have considered going no contact with anyone, let alone a parent. The fear of a confrontation like this is a big reason why I’ve been so distant since the 2024 election.

Years ago, we had a very pleasant (actual) conversation about my beliefs. I’ve been thinking a lot about that experience lately. How I felt seen and validated, and respected as a person. A whole person who was loved and appreciated. An equal who you just wanted to understand, not change.

In short: you were curious, not judgemental.

This time was different. And so much worse than I expected. You spouted off so many harmful and ignorant views. Parroted so many divisive claims. Targeted so many with spiteful rhetoric. Including me.

Your assertion that I’m a bad person because you assume that I’m not a Christian was incredibly hurtful, and something that I can’t stop thinking about. The worst part is, I know you believe every word you said just as much as you believe you’re showing love by saying them. You give credence to the adage that “there’s no hate like Christian love.”

The truth is this: Jesus said that if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. I discovered that the narrow lens of my religious heritage was preventing me from showing unconditional love to others. So I plucked it out of my life.

In many ways, Jesus’ teachings are still to this day a guiding light for me. It’s why I feel so strongly about policies that provide for the poor, help the needy, protect the vulnerable, defend the oppressed, and speak for those who do not have a voice at the table. These principles are mentioned in the Bible more than 2000 times, the only thing referenced more is God himself.

When I was a child, I remember being taught that the more the Bible says something, the more important it is. And yet, the vast majority of what I hear from Christians is about which marginalized groups they’re standing against, rather than which ones they’re standing up for.

You asked how I’m not afraid all the time without God. Knowledge and understanding dispel fear. When something sounds scary, I learn more about it. What I’ve learned is this: no one is out to get me. Or you. People are just people. Everyone is just trying to get by and live their own lives.

That’s the problem with seeing everything through the lens of spiritual warfare, as you seem to: in the fog of war, everyone
who isn’t a friend (part of your group) is an enemy who is out to get you. In reality, people just want to coexist as they are.

Throughout history, the Bible has been used to justify heinous things. Countless millions of lives lost in religious wars across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia, all in the name of Jesus. This understanding is what led to the Establishment Clause in the American Constitution, which stipulates that we will not ever declare a national religion.

Since then, religion has been used as a tool in America to bolster and sustain slavery, subjugate women, fight against the voting rights of both women and racial minorities. It has fought against desegregation and interracial couples. As a society, we have collectively decided that these deplorable causes were morally bankrupt, rooted in bigotry, and have no place in our society. Who is the Bible being weaponized against now? Anyone who is not actively standing against injustice, oppression, and abuse of power is complicit in it.

Fighting with you in general, and especially hearing you argue in favor of these things is incredibly destabilizing for me and it makes me feel unsafe. Every time we talk about these things, my hands have been shaking uncontrollably. This is not an experience that I ever want to have again.

For this reason, I do not want to engage in any further conversation about potentially contentious topics with you, in person or otherwise. These conversations are not good for my mental health or for our relationship. If you want our relationship to continue, you will respect this boundary.

Please respond simply with whether or not you accept these terms moving forward. I love you. But I love myself more. I don’t want to lose you. But I must protect my mental health.

Take all the time you need.

Your son,

[Me]

PS: Dan McClellan is a scholar of the Bible and religion whose content I consume often. I highly recommend his podcast, Data Over Dogma. They cover 1-2 topics in each episode, aiming to increase the access to biblical scholarship. He has also written a book called The Bible Says So, if that’s your preferred format. I’ve also heard great things about the book Hell Bent by Brian Recker.

PPS: I would also highly recommend you research “what chaos is being caused by immigration in the US.”
______
Dad’s response:

Thank you for the email. I love you. I am sorry I hurt you. I believe it is best that we just avoid anything with the possibility of causing friction. I think we are both capable of doing that for sure. I really want our relationship to flourish. Actually I set a goal 3 years ago in January to show more love to you and [your sister]. I am very sorry I came across in a hateful way a month ago. That was sure not my intention. Hate is one of the sins I avoid like the plague. It will tear a person up inside.

I should have said early on that we need to stop the conversation. Our beliefs seem to be 180 degrees apart so we are not going to be able to agree on a lot of issues. That's fine. We can make it work.

I have always believed whole heartedly that you believe in Jesus. I was trying to encourage you in the fact that you are if that makes sense. I think we were way too far down the road at that point that conversation got to a bad place. I apologize for that.

I know we can make it work. [Your girlfriend] and you are very good for each other. I have told mom frequently we all need to get together more often. We need to make that happen.

Love you [Son]. Have always wanted the best for you,

Dad
_____

Soooo that is what it is. It’s probably the best response I could have expected, but his willful ignorance just makes me sad, angry, and frustrated. Unsure of whether or not to respond or not. I just wish that he would wake up.

In the last week I’ve been piecing together about how my past anxiety about everyone I interact with being condemned to ETERNAL torment unless I convincingly intervene.. might be connected to the state my nervous system - and consequently overall health - is in.

Anecdotally I know of others who have developed chronic illness whilst in the church/faith and I think it’s due to the ways in which we tie ourselves up in knots internally. Anyone else relate? Any further insight into this nasty Venn diagram?

The good news is it’s made me realise that hell definitely can’t be real as God wouldn’t want us to get sick from worry or chronically ill with the burden of it, it literally doesn’t make sense and would be considered a major design flaw.

I recently challenged a group of people on a highy sensitive, controversial church topic: female pastors/priests.

Almost immediately, the group members got extremely defensive. When I continued to ask "why" questions, they got angry.

Why such defensiveness and anger, rather than engage in civil debate?