u/DocumentOwn690

Thank you everyone for your feedback in the original post (https://www.reddit.com/r/Exvangelical/s/5hje9Xs5Tq). In an effort to pare it down and give it more focus, I kept thinking, “if we’re never going to talk about these things again, what do I need to say?” This is what I came up with, as well as his response:

Dad,

As I hope you can tell from my prolonged silence, I did not have the same positive feelings about our “conversation” a few weeks ago. To tell you the truth, this is the first time that I have considered going no contact with anyone, let alone a parent. The fear of a confrontation like this is a big reason why I’ve been so distant since the 2024 election.

Years ago, we had a very pleasant (actual) conversation about my beliefs. I’ve been thinking a lot about that experience lately. How I felt seen and validated, and respected as a person. A whole person who was loved and appreciated. An equal who you just wanted to understand, not change.

In short: you were curious, not judgemental.

This time was different. And so much worse than I expected. You spouted off so many harmful and ignorant views. Parroted so many divisive claims. Targeted so many with spiteful rhetoric. Including me.

Your assertion that I’m a bad person because you assume that I’m not a Christian was incredibly hurtful, and something that I can’t stop thinking about. The worst part is, I know you believe every word you said just as much as you believe you’re showing love by saying them. You give credence to the adage that “there’s no hate like Christian love.”

The truth is this: Jesus said that if your eye causes you to sin, pluck it out. I discovered that the narrow lens of my religious heritage was preventing me from showing unconditional love to others. So I plucked it out of my life.

In many ways, Jesus’ teachings are still to this day a guiding light for me. It’s why I feel so strongly about policies that provide for the poor, help the needy, protect the vulnerable, defend the oppressed, and speak for those who do not have a voice at the table. These principles are mentioned in the Bible more than 2000 times, the only thing referenced more is God himself.

When I was a child, I remember being taught that the more the Bible says something, the more important it is. And yet, the vast majority of what I hear from Christians is about which marginalized groups they’re standing against, rather than which ones they’re standing up for.

You asked how I’m not afraid all the time without God. Knowledge and understanding dispel fear. When something sounds scary, I learn more about it. What I’ve learned is this: no one is out to get me. Or you. People are just people. Everyone is just trying to get by and live their own lives.

That’s the problem with seeing everything through the lens of spiritual warfare, as you seem to: in the fog of war, everyone
who isn’t a friend (part of your group) is an enemy who is out to get you. In reality, people just want to coexist as they are.

Throughout history, the Bible has been used to justify heinous things. Countless millions of lives lost in religious wars across Europe, the Middle East, and Asia, all in the name of Jesus. This understanding is what led to the Establishment Clause in the American Constitution, which stipulates that we will not ever declare a national religion.

Since then, religion has been used as a tool in America to bolster and sustain slavery, subjugate women, fight against the voting rights of both women and racial minorities. It has fought against desegregation and interracial couples. As a society, we have collectively decided that these deplorable causes were morally bankrupt, rooted in bigotry, and have no place in our society. Who is the Bible being weaponized against now? Anyone who is not actively standing against injustice, oppression, and abuse of power is complicit in it.

Fighting with you in general, and especially hearing you argue in favor of these things is incredibly destabilizing for me and it makes me feel unsafe. Every time we talk about these things, my hands have been shaking uncontrollably. This is not an experience that I ever want to have again.

For this reason, I do not want to engage in any further conversation about potentially contentious topics with you, in person or otherwise. These conversations are not good for my mental health or for our relationship. If you want our relationship to continue, you will respect this boundary.

Please respond simply with whether or not you accept these terms moving forward. I love you. But I love myself more. I don’t want to lose you. But I must protect my mental health.

Take all the time you need.

Your son,

[Me]

PS: Dan McClellan is a scholar of the Bible and religion whose content I consume often. I highly recommend his podcast, Data Over Dogma. They cover 1-2 topics in each episode, aiming to increase the access to biblical scholarship. He has also written a book called The Bible Says So, if that’s your preferred format. I’ve also heard great things about the book Hell Bent by Brian Recker.

PPS: I would also highly recommend you research “what chaos is being caused by immigration in the US.”
______
Dad’s response:

Thank you for the email. I love you. I am sorry I hurt you. I believe it is best that we just avoid anything with the possibility of causing friction. I think we are both capable of doing that for sure. I really want our relationship to flourish. Actually I set a goal 3 years ago in January to show more love to you and [your sister]. I am very sorry I came across in a hateful way a month ago. That was sure not my intention. Hate is one of the sins I avoid like the plague. It will tear a person up inside.

I should have said early on that we need to stop the conversation. Our beliefs seem to be 180 degrees apart so we are not going to be able to agree on a lot of issues. That's fine. We can make it work.

I have always believed whole heartedly that you believe in Jesus. I was trying to encourage you in the fact that you are if that makes sense. I think we were way too far down the road at that point that conversation got to a bad place. I apologize for that.

I know we can make it work. [Your girlfriend] and you are very good for each other. I have told mom frequently we all need to get together more often. We need to make that happen.

Love you [Son]. Have always wanted the best for you,

Dad
_____

Soooo that is what it is. It’s probably the best response I could have expected, but his willful ignorance just makes me sad, angry, and frustrated. Unsure of whether or not to respond or not. I just wish that he would wake up.

As I hope you can tell from my silence, I did not have the same positive feelings about our “conversation,” as you called it. To tell you the truth, this is the first time that I have considered going no contact with anyone, let alone a parent.

I might be inclined to dismiss your narrow-minded beliefs as simple bigotry fueled by ignorance, but your assertion that I’m a bad person because I don’t subscribe to your dogmatic religious ideologies was an incredibly hurtful attack that I cannot stop feeling the effects of. The worst part is, I know you believe every word you said and think you’re justified to say them.

In short: you were curious, not judgemental.

That’s not what happened this time.

This time, you goaded me into a fight after I had said I was about to leave (at Joy’s birthday celebration, no less).

This time, you blindly argued about things you knew nothing about, simply echoing the same tired bigotry that I’ve heard a thousand times since my youth, vividly reminding me of why I left the Church in the first place.

This time, you intentionally and continually brought up BS culture war debates that do nothing but dehumanize the marginalized and feed the self-righteousness of you and your peers.

This time, you minimized mass murder and genocide because it’s being done by the ‘right people.’

This time, you used the sexual abuse of children and girls as a prop for your piety.

This time, you asserted that freedom of religion only applies to Christians. If any other religious group asserted this, you would be as concerned as the rest of the country is. The facts are not on your side.

This time, you wielded your disdain and distrust of people who are not in your group as a weapon against your son.

That’s the problem with seeing everything through the lens of spiritual warfare, as you seem to: in the fog of war, everyone who isn’t a friend (part of your group) is an enemy who is out to get you. In reality, people just want to exist and be themselves.

While I appreciate that you fact checked one thing that we talked about, I urge you to fact check everything I said, as well as the points that you shared. If you feel inclined to share things that you learn more about, I may react, but likely will not respond, beyond perhaps suggesting a related search to expand your view. (“Is ICE doing things properly?” “What chaos is immigration causing in the US?”)

I want to feel safe around you, but I can not while you consistently side with aggressors and abusers, structuring power against victims. This is precisely the opposite of what Jesus advocated for. Be better. Do better. This will be your only warning.

Dan McClellan is a scholar of the Bible and religion whose content I consume often. I highly recommend his podcast, Data Over Dogma. He has also written a few books, if that’s your preferred format.

_____

Thanks for reading. If you have any advice or would like additional context, feel free to comment.

Update: After I told my dad I was getting ready to leave his house a couple weeks ago, he started what turned into a 2+ hour political debate. After two weeks of consideration and countless drafts, this will be my response.