r/MawInstallation

It was a thought that came to me. I know the Order 66 surviving Jedi would be the most prominent Force users but I feel like it would be plausible for him to come across unrelated Force sensitives by chance. Perhaps the Empire is invading a planet and there is a local group of Force sensitives as part of the defending army.

I know during the Clone Wars, Palpatine stepped in to deal with Mother Talzin but was curious if there was anyone during the time of the Empire that he considered a threat that had no connections to him or the Jedi whatsoever.

Regarding the Sith, I was not counting Inquisitors that turned treasonous like Reva or other Dark Side minions of Palpatine that were used to test Vader like some Legends stories had. Lord Momin is a bit of a gray area since he was a Sith but has no ties to the Banite Sith.

Hi when it came to the criminal organizations like the Pykes, the Hutts and Crimson Dawn. Did the Empire under Palpatine have a hands off policy and let them pursue their operations as long as it didn't affect the Empire's plans?

Did the Empire tax the criminals like Crimson Dawn discreetly?

Been some time since I've seen Rebels, so it's possible this is contradicted there and I've forgotten. That said, this is what I understand the average Order 66 survivor would know.

Things you know:

1. One decade before the Clone Wars, the Sith were officially confirmed to be back.

2. The Clone Wars, while mostly a political conflict, was tied up in some kind of Sith plot; you know this because Dooku was a Sith.

3. You know there is political tension between the Jedi Order and the Supreme Chancellor's office. You're probably aware of him centralizing power. Your Master or your best friend in the order has probably griped about it.

4. Suddenly, your clones turned on you and you barely managed to escape. You can't figure out why this happened.

5. After a beacon initially calls you home, it suddenly starts blaring a message to stay away, no matter what. At about the same time, Palpatine, who you've likely had negative opinions of, if only from a political perspective, has declared himself Emperor. You are now a fugitive.

6. A few months or years into being on the run, you encounter another Force user for the first time since the clones turned on you, except this one is working with the Empire and has the trademark evil red blade.

Things you don't know:

1. You probably didn't know the extent of the Jedi Council's investigation into Darth Sidious. You might not even know he exists; I'm unsure of whether or not this was made public within the Order.

2. You don't know Palpatine is Sidious. You very well might not know he's a Sith Lord, just that he's seized power. This was kept from the public, unless you were a high-ranking member who knew about the investigation or were present in the hangar when Anakin Skywalker rushed to tell Mace Windu something, you don't know shit.

3. If you're lucky, when you encounter that other Force user for the first time, you live long enough to learn they're an Inquisitor. But you've never heard of an Inquisitor before. You have no idea where this person came from, all you know is that they're trying to kill you on behalf of this new world order.

4. You definitely don't know who Darth Vader is.

With all of this in mind, being on the run as a Jedi during this time period has to be really, really confusing and terrifying.

Random thing I thought of when watching the clone wars and seeing HoloNet News cover Senate speeches

I don't know exactly how old the Pius Dea was when Contispex I took power, but it can't have existed precisely in that form since the Rakata ruled Corusant.

To what extent were the Rakata common knowledge in the Pius Dea period and the centuries before? I know that most Republic technology had its roots in reverse-engineered Rakatan tech, but that doesn't mean everyone knew that. Were they more of a legend by that point? Did the Pius Dea evolve from preceding humanocentric cults and philosophies that took root in the millennia of subjugation and slavery?

So this is an alternate scenario I had fun with, and yes in this case Palpatine might not ruled by the laws Sith, he does it to forever bury the jedi order and the republic and therefore takes different decision after order 66. Instead of his sadistic tendencies, he will instead be much more pragmatic. So yes don't think of that as a good palpatine just one that use pragmatism to the maximum.

He also has a very different objective and more concerned with the legacy of the sith and his hatred of both the jedi and the republic.

Plagueis formation of Sidious... earlier

In this timeline, Plagueis found Palpatine at a much younger age and immediatly teaches him the ways of the dark side. But unlike the legends version where palpatine was found by plagueis at around 17 years old, in this case Palpatine is more inexperienced and Plagueis having found him younger makes it easier for him to indoctrinate him in the ways of the sith.

Here Palpatine is still a cruel, sadistic psycopathis person... BUT he is also much more ideological. In this case, Sidious starts to think that a galaxy should not simply be under his control, he thinks it is an insult that the strong cannot prey on the weak. It's an insult to nature to even have a democracy where everyone has a voice.

And the jedi are the biggest insult to that natural order. He develops a lots of contempt for the jedi and the democratic institution of the republic. So much so that his ideology becomes more important than his own person.

And that is where he creates a plan to make sure that the non force sensitive people of the galaxy will always long for strong leader in order to rule them and will either hates or fear their own freedom. And he will make sure that the jedi legacy will forever be associated with chaos and terrorism and the people of the galaxy will always reject their guidance.

Due to his very different goal, This is where he creates a new plan for his control and vision of the galaxy.

The beginning of reconstruction

After order 66 happens and Palpatine declared himself emperor, Palpatine does not invest any ressources into the building of the death star. In fact, in this alternate timeline, he never even planned to do so.

Instead, he does not build more star destroyer or Tie fighter. No no no. Instead he focuses on the building of infrastructure and the internal aspects of the empire.

He puts all of the colossal ressource used to build the death star and use them to build trade roads, bridges, space ports, improving agriculture so that more planets will get food, etc. And by investing in so much infrastructure, not only many people in the galaxy are satisfied because they see the ressources being well spent after the clone wars, the fiscal revenue improves due to these new trade roads and space ports. Which allows palpatine to invest even more infrastructure...

And this start a snowball cycle, the more he builds, the more he receives and he keeps doing that. But keep in mind that Palpatine does not do any of that because he is kind or nice, he is simply pragmatic and this is his way to stabilise his regime for now. And it's very effective.

Now many people in the galaxy will not like living under an undemocratic regime after having experienced democracy. The COMPNOR is there to silence them... but since Palpatine is still a war hero just after order 66 AND that he is investing in the civilian area of the empire. Many people are still satisfied and have no intention of rebelling.

Quite the contrary, since there is no death star, not only there is no anger after the Alderan destruction, there is also no moment where the empire is humiliated after losing their costly superweapons. Therefore there is no rallying cry, no moment of huge victory for the rebellion.

Instead what Palpatine builds is mostly infrastructure that allows for more trades and more agriculture that allows people to have a full belly. The emperor invest everything in the stability of the empire. And since he does it so much any attempts at attacking the empire can be asily seen by the galactic community as sabotaging the civilian parts of the empire.

So if the rebels are getting too disruptives, the empire propaganda machine can easily turn this around and declare them to be terrorist and many civilians will believe it. In fact the propaganda machine does not even have to lie that much. Here Palpatine keep his good publicity of a war hero and it took a LOT of repression and the destruction of Alderan for the people to turn against him. Here none of that happens.

Here Darth vader, the compnor and the imperial can count on the collaboration of many civilians who prefer this imperial stability to the chaotic time of the republic. Therefore the rebellion is choked before it can become too threatening as many are willing to give up on their freedom for stability... And then it continue for FORTY YEARS.

The end of the "good" chancellor Palpatine

After four decades of investing in the stability of his empire, Palpatine is becoming very old. BUT he is respected pretty much everywhere, the people of the galaxy are extremly loyal and he is extremly popular among them.

But Palpatine knows he won't be eternal. In this timeline, Palpatine values the ideology of the sith where the strong preys on the weak much more than his own person. So he has no cinder operation prepared. He does not wastes any ressources in that. And he also does not intend to prolong his life indefinetely because it would ruin his other parts of the plan

To make sure to immortalise his image. he will not go down in his sleep. No no no, none of that. Instead he organise his own perfect death to cement his legacy.

He will make sure to appear in person at the sites of a newly-built hospital. And he will make sure that rebell cell, the more ruthless of them (probably Saw guerrera) and even jedi are aware that he will be present and he will intenionaly lower the security so that the assassination can happen and he leaks information so that the rebel and jedi survivor will know of his presence.

He organise his own assassination and he wants to make sure that the galactic community will see both the rebels AND the jedi as the one who killed him. It does not matter if the jedi does the deed as long as they are seen at the crime scene.

So would it be Cal kestis, kallus, or a more ruthless jedi, none of it matters. Because Palpatine wants at least one of them to be seen.

He goes to the newly build hospital, makes a speech about how much the galaxy needs to rebuild itself even decades after the clone wars and this hospital is a step in the right direction... and then he is killed in front of the entire galaxy.

The shock is immense and both jedi and rebels are seen as the assassins. The people of the empire are both very sad... and furious. Any voice that tries to paint the jedi as victim of order 66 are forced into silence, any voice that tries to claim that the rebels are nothing more than terrorist are shunned. Even Leia, who is one of the harshest critics of Palpatine in this timeline is forced to condemn both the rebels and jedi but even that is not enough to save her career.

Immediatly a purge starts and both rebels are forced to disband and go into hiding, same for any jedi survivor.

Palpatine becomes a Martyr and the entire galaxy starts chanting how of a hero he was to them. Anniversarys are proclaimed for him every year to remind them of how they didn't deserve a great man like him...

The sucession begins

But Palpatine prepared his death and with his intention of burying the jedi and the republic for good, he made sure that his sucession would be assured at least for now. This is to ensure that after a while nearly every people of the galaxy will have NEVER known a time fo democracy and only knew the empire.

As mentionned before, since this is a very different Palpatine who is much more ideological, Operation Cinder is never put in motion.

But he makes sure that a new council will rule once he dies. But you could ask what Vader will be doing during this time? Vader will not suceed as emperor... BUT he will inherit all of the millitary and the police force (which includes compnor).

Vader becomes the muscle of the empire. Someone like him is not a fan of the politics and the bureaucracy, he is good as an enforcer but not as a politican (as he will certainly admits that himself).

So now, an emperor will be proclaimed... but Vader will have the final words and decide who gets to sit on the throne. And as long as the new emperor maintain stability, Vader leaves him there.

But if an emperor becomes too rebellious, corrupt or incompetent, Vader being in commands of the millitary and the police can easily dispose of him and replace him for anyone he prefers.

This way Vaders becomes a somewhat equivalent to the jannisairies of the ottoman empire or the Praetorian of the roman empire, disposing of leaders who have become too corupt, incompetent or not to their liking.

So vader becomes an unofficial leader of the empire while not being a figure head that the civilian sees. In fact if the civilians official of the empire fails to do their job of maintaining order and stability, this is time where Vader intervenes and sent either the inquisitor, the compnor, the troopers., etc.

Signaling to both the population and the civilian government that the empire has lost patience and heads will start to roll until order has been brought back.

The new Sith order begins

And this is where Vader creates a reformed Sith order. It is still very much ruled by the dark side, but in this case it is simply made so that the Sith don't micromanage the empire. They are the one who breaks and makes emperor, choosing leader at their will and enforcing an authoritarian order.

Vader would have finally find Luke who integrated the imperial academy in this timeline and Vader will have found how strong the force was in him and very much found out he was his son. He will have trained him in secret.

In this alternate timeline, the empire being nowhere near as repressive as it was in the original timeline (for pragmatic not moral reason), Luke is not disgusted with the empire.

Now luke and Vader are indeed rulling as father and son on a new empire after the deaths of Palpatine. With Luke apointed has Vader sucessor once Vader will be no more and suceeded him as the new dark lord of the sith.

Vader here find some peace in his empire, rulling with an iron fist but without it being necessary to always make too much repression. The empire is now stable enough that the Sith continues to rule and the jedi are forced into hiding if they are even still alive...

A Strange galaxy

Vader dies after having being leader of the Sith for decades, and a mourning Luke takes his place as the new dark lord of the Sith.

The empire has now been the dominant and incontested power of the empire for nearly a century. The people have get used to a lack of democracy and many of them fear the lost of stability. Generations have been born knowing only the empire.

Now the jedi have been accused of being monsters by the historians, journalist and the population at large. They are accused of being the real criminals of the clone wars, and the terrorist that killed their beloved Chancellor Palpatine and bringing chaos to their lives.

Leia after Palpatine's death was forced into retirement from the politcal life because she was a vocal critics of the empire and Palpatine during his reign and many time defended rebel cells. After his assassination, she was persona Non grata.

She now sees a galaxy under the tyranical rule of a stable empire. And the people are not begging to be free... they are happy to be ruled by an iron fist, they are happy to not have a voice in the politics, they are happy that a murderous sith Lords is the real leader of the galaxy.

They now sees democracy, their right to vote and express themselves as an outdated institution that brought them nothing but suffering and misery. And they are gratefull to live under an autocracy.

As now even if The new sith order was to fall and dissapear, even if the empire was to have instability, even if in case of sucession crisis after the death of a new emperor, the people of the galaxy will not fight to have democracy back. But will fight... to have their favorite autocratic emperor on the throne. Rejecting democracy probably forever, with the jedi the eternal ennemy of history.

As she sees the new anniversary of Death of Palpatine, she cries that she was unable to give them the will to claim their freedom... she cries that they are celebrating a monster that lead them to be rule for an autocracy maybe forever. with the jedi the eternal ennemy of history and the republic buried for good.

And here Palpatine in his death achieve the absolute revenge of The sith...

So tell me what you thought about it.

Edit : (this scenario ignores the sequel trilogy and more specifically the "somehow palpatine returns" so plz avoid mentionning Rise of the skywalker and the rest of the sequel trilogy...)

Usually, you can’t just walk in on a contracted project, declare yourself in charge of It, and then expect the contractor to agree with you. Like, If I were to walk into a defense contractor’s office and tell everyone I’m in charge of whatever they’re building for the US military, I’d probably be arrested.

how did Dooku do it?

So consider this. The Jedi build their lightsabers out of Kyber Crystals, extremely rare semi-sentient crystals found primarily on Ilum, Jedha, and and a handful of other worlds. Getting them was a pilgrimage and rite of passage.

The Empire powered both Death Stars primarily by Kyber Krystals, including their planet killing super laser. As usual, the Emperor liked to make a mockery of the Jedi, using their primary tool of defense and Justice into his intrument of Tyranny. To do this he strip-mined all of these world's to a ridiculous extent, essentially destroying many of them. Ilum, the most Kyber rich and sacred of them was cored out to become a weapon itself, as Star Killer base.

And while the rebellion's success hinged on destroying all three of these terror weapons, it also meant destroying the majority of the known Kyber Crystals in the galaxy.

Surely it was not all of them, but it would make any restoration of the Jedi Order a shadow of it's former glory, as lightsabers would be difficult to construct, due to lack of materials.

The Empire ensured the death of the Jedi, not only in Order 66, but by using all their Kyber to power super weapons.

Something that’s always confused me is how Darth Vader’s consciousness works. For example, when he fought Ahsoka, did he know who she was and wanted to kill her or did he not even register her as someone who he has a past relationship with? Is it like Anakin and Darth Vader go in and out of possession of Anakin’s body? What’s your head canon for how this works

The Force Awakens can be a reference to the Dyad connection awakening in Rey and Ben, when they are interigating each other. The Last Jedi can be a foreshadow of Ben and Rey being the last Jedi in 9, when they are defeating Palpatine. The Rise of Skywalker can be a reference to Rey and Ben both being reborn and rising as a Skywalker. Rey is brought back to life and risies as a person who accepts the Skywalker name, while Ben almost dies and rises as someone who accepts his family.

Something I've been thinking since the series started is that he's going to end up being betrayed at some point. Well, to begin with, we know his fate in Rebels, where he's alone and desolate on Malachor and says he once had power but now he has nothing. So, following this line of reasoning, either he was abandoned/betrayed or everyone ended up dying. Besides, Maul has a long history of betrayals, from being betrayed by the Hondo Pirates in Clone Wars, then by Palpatine himself, and Maul reveals in the series that he was also betrayed by the Pikes. So, him being betrayed again wouldn't be a big surprise. Also, in this last episode, Rook cast showed her discontent with Maul's decisions, and a Mandalorian has already started to disagree with him, and I don't think it will take long for others to follow suit.

In Star Wars, there are many various vehicles, that mostly does not touch ground. one of those are speeders and speeder bikes, which seems to use repursor technology to fly.

But some are portrayed as floating less than meter above ground, while others can float tens or even hundreds of meters above any solid object (on Coruscant scenes for example)

Are the two same technology, where everyone just decided to stay near ground unless you are in Coruscant?

Or can any repursocraft do both, but it dunno, takes more fuel the higher you are?

So we know at least Yoda has seen visions of what he looked like in his sith outfit with the hood he uses in holograms, and the jedi suspected Palpatine at the end of the war, so if Yoda still remembered the sith lords outfit, shouldn’t he have tried secretly to inspect his outfits or ships for any suspicious possessions?

Yes I know, destroyed together with Kijimi.

But consider the following alternative.

We see Kylo and Rey fighting. She's on Kylo's ship, he's on Kijimi. And then something funny happens.

Rey hits that big jar filled with red beans in Kijimi, which as a result fall and are scattered on Kylo's ship. It's a cool shot.

But then the fight ends. Kylo vanishes. We see Rey...and the beans are not there on the ship with her!

So, with this in mind, consider Vader's helmet. It fell on the snow. We see it. But of course we had also seen those beans falling on Kylo's ship. And then they were gone.

So if the beans had in fact returned to Kijimi, then Vader's helmet, which apparently fell on the snow, would have in fact remained on the ship.

But as we can see it was no longer in the ship with Rey either.

It didn't return. But in that case the beans did not return to Kijimi either. Where are both objects, the beans and the helmet? That is to say, where's the helmet?

Is this some sort of visual pun? 'Spill the beans'...about what?

There's an alternative explanation. The helmet fell somewhere else. Or: there was someone else watching. Unseen. He/she took the helmet.

I mean in TLJ Kylo and Rey talked to each other without knowing there was an unseen person between the two: Snoke. And we did not know either until we were told.

If we frame this as a Dyad Sith vs Exegol Sith war, then maybe Kylo and Rey would have been the former's 'agents'. Kylo knew about himself and Rey being a dyad, but he also knew Palpatine didn't know, which was true.

To preface I know the general consensus among fans is that true balance in the force is light prevailing and keeping the dark side at bay. I agree with that. However, I’ve only seen the movies and read a couple of books so I’m not completely informed on all the characters and different beliefs. I was curious if there’s any characters, especially force users, who genuinely believe there needs to be equal dark and light for a 50/50 balance in the force? Sorry if this has been asked before I just want to learn about the different ways in which people in this universe may view the force and how it functions!

Hi is it likely Vader will come with the inquisitors to deal with Maul on Janix and his Shadow Collective?

Can Darth Vader defeat Maul? as they were both trained by Sidious?

Furthermore I’d like to ask, were there any remnants of the first order which didn’t join the final order/sith eternal, given it seemed to occur to the surprise of the first order elite.

Where is its logistics units, how many airborne units, etc. Basically just how do you think it’s organized, in detail.

Thanks!

In the Phantom Menace, it's a Trade Federation rather than a government that blockades Naboo. A blockade is an act of war usually done by governments.

Some people believe that governments are ruled by the equivalent of trade federations - Wall Street, Big Pharma, Silicon Valley, or whatever. At the time The Phantom Menace was written, a lot of people protested the World Bank, World Trade Organization, and IMF and believed they had inordinate influence. Lucas may have been inspired by that. These organizations don't do naval blockades, but they could isolate countries and stop loans to countries that didn't follow their policy preferences. And it's understandable Lucas preferred a blockade as a plot device. Cutting off bank loans would have been even more technical!

But in the Phantom Menace, it's a Sith Lord who is really an ambitious governmental figure bossing the Trade Federation around. A secret space wizard is getting a trade group to do an act of war that is usually against a trade group's economic interests.

Blockades and embargoes are usually strenuously opposed by the merchant class. You can go back to America's War of 1812. American ships were victim to the British seizing American ships and impressing American sailors, but the merchant class strongly opposed President Jefferson's embargo and then the War of 1812. Sometimes the merchant class pressures government to nail the doors of free trade open - like China and the Opium Wars or the US and China a little later. Again, state power enforcing trade interests at their behest, not state power coercing trade interests to do something that restricts trade.

Then there were the British and Dutch East India companies. These were trade organizations that tried to enforce monopolies with their private navies. But they were not blockading countries or protesting taxes, they were attacking competitors on the high seas. Come to think of it, Lucas should have made it about enforcing trade monopolies rather than a dispute over taxation.

So it's a really weird and ahistoric opening. Trade organizations support free trade or coercion that controls trade, not coercion that shuts trade down entirely. Critics of free trade usually note the influence industry has over government, but in this case, it's government secretly bullying industry behind closed doors.

I've been rewatching The Clone Wars and I'm realizing that one of the reasons I like this era, and even the build-up to A New Hope, is the scale of the conflict feels genuinely galactic.

The Clone Wars *feels* like a war raged across a galaxy, with multiple fronts and proxy wars, like on Mandalore.

For stories set between the Clone Wars and Rogue One/ANH we get a view of scattered resistance movements and a few notable battles.

But then, and this is primarily a canon complaint, it feels like that tapers off dramatically.

Maybe it's a criticism primarily aimed at the comics, but other than Mako-Ta and Hoth, it feels like there isn't really much by the way of notable battles until Endor.

The obvious Doylist explanation here would be that there's just less material in that time period. And of the material that is covered in that era, it's more built around scrappy adventures of the main trio rather than following soldiers across a broader war.

And I can somewhat buy the Watsonian explanation that it's a smaller-scale insurgency and not a galaxy-wide war between superpowers, but that doesn't seem to fit with the idea that the Empire would collapse after Endor and Jakku if the GCW is limited to roughly six or seven battles.

Do you feel like the GCW is smaller in scale than the Clone Wars? If so, do you prefer it that way? Does the old canon (between Yavin and Endor) feel different?