She seems to have a strange eye like Messmer, and it seems that the death of Marika in the lord of frenzy ending unleached this outer god, if Melina has an outer god do we have any clue which one it is ? (Sorry for bad english It's not my native language...)
Like from starting out in limgrave, to killing all the demigods, clearing out the land of shadow, and finally ascending the throne (or burning it down I don’t judge). If you were adapting your player tarnished’s story into a series, how long do you think it would take them to 100% their journey?
It's been a while since the last time, so I'm back to discover new ideas. The idea is simple: share your headcanons, regardless of whether they're controversial or make sense.
I'll mention some that I created in the meantime:
*All the main characters in Nightreign actually exist in the Elden Ring universe, just at different times, not necessarily in the time period in which the game takes place.
*Godwyn befriended the dragons because they reminded him of his brother Messmer, who had winged serpents on his body, what are dragons if not just some snakes with wings?
*Hewg took care of Marika when she was younger, and she is the Spirit Tuner he mentions fondly; he fears Marika the Queen because she's like a completely different person.
*Miquella didn't know what Radahn was really like; it was a childhood crush he had, he simply ignored the fact that Radahn was obsessed with war.
*Marika performed the ritual at the Divine Gate alone.
*Melina's voice is the same as her mother's, so when she recites Marika's Echoes it's like hearing Marika herself speaking (Unfortunately the movie will probably break this headcanon of mine).
*Romina is a shaman
*All the Outer Gods were parts of the Great One.
*Ranni can still have children even without a body, because of her Empyrean nature... thinking about it now, I guess that would mean that Miquella can do it too........ I think I need to stop thinking....
*Marika is like a serpent, not literally, but in the narrative; she is everything a serpent represents.
*No one would have won the battle of Aeonia even if events had been different because the DESTINED death of the demigods is sealed, that's also the same reason "The Shattering" war never finished.
Phew, those were all the ones I had in mind, now it's your turn.
The Outer Gods are Stars
Art by @SneakyBroArt on X (image 1)
In Elden Ring, stars are more than inanimate gas balls illuminating the night sky. In many cases they are living beings, but not all of them are created equally. Astel for example is considered a “malformed star” and can relatively easily be defeated by the Tarnished, while the Frigid Sun of Sol has the ability to resurrect the dead and keep destined death at bay, and is completely out of our reach.
I think there’s good evidence to suggest that the Outer Gods are capable of taking on multiple forms, or at the very least can be perceived in multiple different forms, but for the sake of brevity I’ll be omitting this and focusing purely on how each Outer God has a very strong connection to a real star.
The Outer God of Rot. I’m sure all of you have seen Malenias form after she ascends to Godhood. I don’t think her taking the form of a butterfly is an accident. In fact her shape, and the nature of rot, perfectly mirrors that of a young star.
We can see quite clearly that rot in Elden Ring consumes life in order to strengthen its influence. A young star does exactly that, it consumes the atmospheres and matter of anything around it in order to grow. There are countless photos you can find of young stars taking the form of a butterfly, and a few different theories as to why this happens. I’m not here to give my opinion on things I don’t understand, so I’ll just show you my favorite image of a young star: https://imgur.com/a/xD0WIsL (image 2)
The Fell God. There is a bit of a debate on whether we can classify the Fell God as a true Outer God, and I think that’s a fair assessment, but I think it’s at least generally agreed upon that its powers come from an Outer God. This is just how divinity works in Elden Ring. I think Miquella might be the only one who doesn’t have a clear influence from an Outer God, but given his curse, and how he has to visit the divine realm to ascend and receive a Great Rune adjacent item similar to the Nightlords, I suspect that there is an unknown influence.
Getting back to the Fell God, the obvious connection we can make is to the sun. But I don’t think that’s the most fitting. There’s another Outer God that embodies the sun much more closely. I think the Fell Gods closest real life celestial counterpart is a failed star. And there just so happens to be one in our own solar system that has very strong connections to the Fell God. Jupiter.
Jupiter is classified as a gas giant but it’s also called a failed star because it was unable to acquire enough mass to ignite nuclear fusion. Essentially it had the potential to become a true star but for various debated reasons, was unable to.
Jupiter is the largest planet in our solar system, even considered a giant planet. As we know the Fell God manifests mainly on Fire Giants, which are the largest living beings in the Lands Between. Jupiter is also an extremely cold planet. Its surface temperature is around -160 degrees Fahrenheit, except for the storm on the South Pole which reaches temperatures of up to 2,400 degrees Fahrenheit. To mirror this, Fire Giants occupy a frozen wasteland. Now why is this important? Because the solar storm on the South Pole of Jupiter is a perfect 1:1 to the Fell Gods eye, here’s the image: https://imgur.com/a/WSE5raE (image 3)
The next Outer God I want to look at is the Formless Mother. While there aren’t any real stars that we can draw a connection to, at least not one I could find, there is one that Fromsoft created for us, and that is the Blood Star.
It’s still debated as to whether the Blood Star is the Formless Mother, as there’s no lore directly stating them to be the same entity. I think it’s a rather obvious connection for a few reasons, the most in your face being their shared connection to blood. Some less obvious connections are that the Blood Star worshippers have an affinity with fire like the Formless Mother worshippers do, both the Formless Mother and the Blood Star require a wound, and they both manifest in the discarded members of society.
Of course without any lore directly stating them to be the same entity you will always have people opposing this idea, but I can’t think of any good reason for Fromsoft to create 2 identical Outer Gods if they didn’t want us to make the connection between them.
The Frenzied Flame is the most obvious of them all, with its star counterpart being a black hole. If you aren’t aware, a black hole is formed by the gravitational collapse of a massive star.
Whats most of us know about black holes is that they consume and destroy everything in their path. Whats lesser known is that they can also redistribute gas far across the universe which can lead to the formation of new celestial bodies. Theres a relatively popular theory that black holes lead to new universes. Connecting this to the Frenzied Flame, it consumes everything around it, but it doesn’t just consume things. Similarly to how black holes redistribute matter, the Frenzied Flame consumes things specifically to return them to the One Great. Returning things to the One Great would inevitably lead to the creation of a new universe. It’s a pretty fascinating take on the concept in my opinion, and the connections aren’t just thematic, they’re also visual: https://imgur.com/a/MzFM1kE (image 4, 5, and 6)
Last but not least is the Outer God whose star form that I believe represents a golden sun, and that is the Greater Will.
The Greater Wills influence is overwhelmingly golden. You’ll be hard pressed to find anything related to the Greater Will that doesn’t have at least some gold on it. Next we have to look to our own world and what the sun actually does for us. It gives us life and order. It’s is the reason that life on earth is possible, and it’s the order of our solar system. The Greater Will is what gives the Lands Between life and order.
I know what you’re thinking, the Greater Will is described as a lightless abyss, how can it be a golden sun? One theory is that when Ymir attempted to view the Greater Will, he saw nothing because TLB was already abandoned by it, and couldn’t perceive it.
Alternatively, and the theory I much prefer, is that the Greater Will ceased to exist. Maybe it died, maybe it returned itself to the One Great, or maybe the Frenzied Flame did. Nobody really knows, but I think there’s some pretty strong evidence to suggest that the Greater Wills physical body may have died, and we see it in Metyr’s microcosm.
Metyr’s microcosm is her physical connection to the Greater Will. Through it she could receive messages, and from what we can see she was viewing a star on the other side of it, albeit a now collapsed star. This is evident by Metyr’s pulsar beam attack. A pulsar beam is energy being emitted by a neutron star, and a neutron star is the core of massive star that exploded into a supernova. To back this up with some visual evidence, here are a few images of collapsed stars compared to her microcosm: https://imgur.com/a/5FSf3qp (image 7, 8, and 9)
When Lusat and Azur peered into the primeval current, one witnessed the death of a great star cluster, the other witnessed the abyss left behind. Ymir would later witness this same abyss and recognized it as the Greater Will, but I don’t think that the Greater Will was always a lightless abyss. A lightless abyss is the antithesis of the Greater Will. Something that represents absolute order, existing as absolute nothingness? I think there’s enough evidence to conclude that something happened to the Greater Wills celestial form, which I believe to be a massive golden star.
My last bit of evidence for this is Goldmasks helmet. Visually it represents a golden star, and the item description reads: “Its striking design represents both the brilliant inspiration that once shone upon him, and the vision of a ring that he will surely find at the end of his pursuit.”
Dung Eaters armor has a similar description: Worn by the Dung Eater. The heavy, sun-shaped medallion represents both the guidance he once saw, and the ring to which it will one day lead.
A sun is representative of the Elden Ring. This is important because the Elden Ring is the microcosm of the Greater Will. Just like the Crucible is the microcosm of the One Great. The Elden Ring and the Crucible are just an emulation of the creation of the universe, as above so below. So the microcosm of the Greater Will is being represented by a Sun.
It’s also worth noting that the Elden Ring was sent to the Lands Between on a golden star: “It is said that long ago, the Greater Will sent a golden star bearing a beast into the Lands Between, which would later become the Elden Ring.” -Elden Stars
Was the Greater Will ever actually a golden star itself? We will probably never know the answer to this question, but I think there’s more than enough evidence to connect it to one nonetheless.
I couldn’t find anything for the Outer God of Night, but I’m certain it has a celestial body form because of the bone-like stone item which claims that it’s the bone of an Outer God.
That’s all I have for this post, thanks for reading!
Marika banished them after all of the Golden Orders major enemies where defeated. At that point in the lore, Godfrey and his army had to be the most powerful force in the Lands of Between. Yes I know that Marika took there grace away from them. But was that light carrying them that hard? The only five people I believe can stop him are Maliketh, Malenia, Radahan, Marika, and us.
***Please, take a look at the images — they are extremely important for understanding the text***
First, we’re dealing with a lord that occupied the vacuum between the reign of Dragonlord Placidusax and Queen Marika the Eternal.
The Gloam-Eyed Queen / Fell God exists and terrorizes the Hornsent (Furnace Visage descriptions), while the Fire God of the Giants also exists at the same time (they’re connected on a level we can only speculate about). The game tells us that the GEQ/Fell God was chosen as an Empyrean by the Fingers — meaning she was next in line for the throne.
The Hornsent perform a ritual to elevate Marika to godhood with the promise that she would take revenge against the GEQ/Fell God and prevent her from taking the place of the Fire God of the Giants (just as Marika has three Empyreans as successors, the Fire God of the Giants also had successors chosen by the Fingers) .
Now comes a fair more bit of headcanon, because the game never clearly explains what happened — this is simply my logical interpretation:
Before becoming a goddess, Marika becomes involved with the giant, Radagon.
Radagon was a giant born smaller than the rest of his race, which caused him to be seen as sullied and terribly grotesque (Milos Greatsword description), leading him to hate his own race (Giant’s Red Braid description).
Marika becomes pregnant by him. He participates in the secret ritual as her first consort; she conceives before the ritual and carries his child during it.
Secret rite ritual:
“A scroll made of white tree bark.
Few can decipher the scroll,
which describes the secret rite of the divine gateway said to be found at the tower enshrouded by shadow.
"A lord will usher in a god's return, and the lord's soul will require a vessel."
I think that, during the ritual, Marika merged both souls — hers and Radagon’s — into a single body, rather than them having always been one being that later split apart. That interpretation (that he didn’t exist before her) doesn’t really make sense to me, especially considering Radagon’s giant lineage and genetic traits.
I also think her ritual was different from Miquella’s, since she was an ordinary Numen ascending to godhood, whereas Miquella was already a Demigod who abandoned St. Trina, who lived within him, and everything seems to indicate that she was a divinity in her own right, one that prevented him from becoming an adult, almost like a curse.
Basically, my interpretation of the ritual is that it required Radagon and Marika to become one body containing two separate souls, not a soul that split itself in two.
Brief comment: It’s implied that Marika made a pact with a white serpent shortly before her ascension to godhood (SOTE cinemática trailer). I wonder if she consciously housed it within Messmer’s body while she was carrying him.
Continuing:
The ritual works. She becomes a goddess and just as Miquella did with St. Trina, Radagon is separated from Marika body, and in some point before or after that, he used the amber Egg to be reborn as a human (The same amber egg that he uses to gift Rennala).
Godfrey became Elden Lord , defeats the giants with Marika defeating the fire god of Giants (ONE-EYED SHIELD description) the last king of Lands Between and takes the throne.
However, she also betrays the Hornsent because of all the suffering inflicted upon the Numen, sealing that region away from the rest of the world and leaving Messmer the Impaler — a son cursed maybe by her acts — behind to destroy them.
The Gloam Eyed Queen steals the Rune of Death and creates the Black Flame to take its place on the throne (before Marika, she had been chosen by the Fingers to succeed the Fire God of the Giants) However, she is defeated by Maliketh, sealing the Rune of Death and Black flame power
Why I think the Fell God is the Gloam-Eyed Queen:
- the symbol on the Furnace Visage strongly resembles the design found on the robes of the Godskin Apostles
- the design on the cloaks of the Dominula dancers: the blue one depicts an era in which the one-eyed god of the Fire Giants — and beneath him, the GEQ/Fell God — ruled, while the golden one shows they being replaced by the Golden Order and the Erdtree”
- The symbol of the eight circles surrounding a larger circle is also present on the Godskin Noble’s robe, with the faces forming the smaller circles around the central circle.
- The Divine Towers, where the runes are kept, have an architecture completely different from everything else, and on their rooftops they bear the symbol of the Fell God of the Giants on every side. There are eight monuments surrounding the circle in the center, and all eight monuments display the same symbol: eight circles surrounding a single one. At the bottom of the Caelid tower, the architecture changes and bears the symbol of the Gloam-Eyed Queen, showing that the two once coexisted in a certain harmony. Perhaps she was the daughter of the Fire God of the Giants, and that may have been the reason she was chosen as an Empyrean, but that makes it clear that she came before Marika became a goddess, which rules out any possibility of Melina originally being the Gloam-Eyed Queen (if she was later possessed by her, that’s another story — one I don’t have the answer to).
Let's go over the obvious ones, if you pick The Age of Frenzy you're willingly destroying the world, so nothing to explain here, really. If you pick The Age of Dusk then the dead come to reign over everything. The world doesn't end literally, but it might as well have, because now life is not really a thing.
What is less obvious is the rest of the endings. There are three fundamental unstoppable destructive forces in The Lands Between: Deathblight, Scarlet Rot and Flame of Frenzy.
Deathblight is sorta unavoidable because even in the better times, those who live in death were present despite the efforts of those who would seek to combat them. Namely Miquella and Fortissax.(I'm not sure if this next one is true, but I think it is stated somewhere, so take it with a pinch of salt) After the death of Godwyn, Miquella fought against those who live in death, but abandoned the cause and sought other ways to bring him back, like the Castle of Sol. Fortissax entered the Deathbed Dream and ultimately succumbed to the Death blight. So, The Age of the Duskborn, or rather the spread of Death blight is pretty much inevitable because you can't really do anything about Godwyn. He cannot be killed and cannot be revived.
Next up is Scarlet Rot. This one isn't exactly as obvious and kinda relies on environmental design. During the battle against Radahn Makenia unleashed the Scarlet Aeonia and ever since it's been spreading across Caelid, even creating an entire swamp in the middle. What I find interesting is that when you enter Caelid, you have to jump over a fiery wall. It's clearly meant to stop the Rot, but riding further you see more of these walls, meaning that the Rot was held back but ultimately not stopped. It spreads despite the best efforts of everyone else. And, personally I don't think killing Malenia does much to help it, since the Rot isn't her power. It's the power of the Outer God that chose her as the Empyrion. We killed her, sure, but the God is still alive and the influence is still present.
And at last, we have the Flame of Frenzy. Ever since Shabriri accepted it into his eye sockets it has been spreading through the Lands Between. Even people that have nothing to do with Frenzy can become Frenzied. Edgar upon losing Irene becomes Frenzied. Midra just does it of his own volition, fueled by Nanaya. There's a Frenzied village (2 of them, actually, one in Weeping Peninsula, one in Liurnia), Frenzied Towers that spread Frenzy around them and even a whole clan of Frenzied traders locked up in the sewers on top of the Three Fingers. As Melina says "However ruined this world has become, however mired in torment and despair..." implying that the world is indeed a little awful. Which will lead to Frenzy appearing again and again.
All this makes me think that even if you become the Elden Lord, there's really not much to be done about these three things. You're kinda fucked no matter what you choose.
Art by RimyZipel on Twitter
Godfrey is the last stop before we find Marika- if he somehow had managed to defeat us for good he was seemingly about to waltz into the Erdtree to meet her for himself.
And he would have found her in the same state we do- completely broken, left hanging by a rune arc and impaled by (presumably?) a shard of destined death, either to torment or weaken her. It's not even clear how much of Marika is really there anymore- she doesn't even have eyes to speak to us through, the extent of her consciousness or sentience is rather unclear.
It's probable that Radagon would have come out again even for him and that they may have fought- and presuming that he won, Marika would still be there, as she was in our endings.
What do you think he does then? He seemed to love her truly when they were first together- he led multiple wars in her name and was her champion. It's unclear how upset he is about the whole "being sent to a hellish land to fight for eternity until you're brutally murdered" thing. He doesn't seem especially angry when we meet him- at least not until he returns to his barbaric ways, and even then that's more lust for battle than any personal misgivings running through him.
The only ending in which Marika is put to rest finally and not left catatonic and suffering as the basis for the Elden Ring is the age of stars (and I guess the frenzied flame come to think of it) and this is heavily implied to be the main GOOD ending.
I bring this up because I personally think this is what Godfrey would have wanted to do as well in our place. I think he would still hold some level of sympathy, if not outright understanding and love for Marika when he sees her broken as she is- and try to finally end her suffering and stagnation.
But maybe he would have just taken her as consort once again, even in this broken and barely existing state- not understanding enough of the world or the Elden ring to be able to think of much other than conquest, and attempting to cling onto the last vestiges of someone that may not even exist anymore.
Ok so we know to become a lord of the frenzy flame you have to be blessed by the three fingers. However Midra as far as I can tell(correct me if im wrong) does not have the mark of the three fingers on his body.
Will this create a different kind of Lord of Chaos if he is not marked or is Midras bid to become a Lord of Chaos just as impactful as our Tarnish being marked by the three fingers?
If there is no difference in the results from the different methods, what makes the three fingers unique as a potential source of a Lord of Chaos?Like if anyone can become a Lord of Chaos with out being blessed by the three fingers, what is the point of the three fingers?
Madding Hand
"A glove stitched together from the flayed skin of the victims of a butcherous bloodbath. [...]
Forged of an unyielding, black impulse toward revenge fostered in those who were hunted down as heretics by their own brethren, these are the weapons of the utterly downtrodden."
Internal Names
Skinny Inquisitor: GodManPriestsCandle
Fat Inquisitor: GodManPriestsBig
...so inquisitors are priests to a "GodMan"?
People: "I am so disappointed that FromSoftware didn't give us any more content for the Gloam Eyed Queen in the Shadow of the Erdtree".
Note: This post is not to be taking too seriously.
Not much here I just thought it was neat.
So right before Melina lights the Erdtree on fire, she asks us to rest her hand on us for just a moment and then we fall asleep.
She goes on to ignite the Erdtree, monologues at us and we wake up in Farum Azula.... what is going on here?
Side Thoughts:
- I know Sleep is linked with Death and Melina is too linked with Death. She tells us right before that the world needs Death indiscriminate and so acknowledges that even the Gods have their fated deaths. Sleep seems to also be linked to the Ancient Dragons as Florissax offers her sleep to Placidusax.
- Farum Azula obviously is harboring the Rune of Death in Maliketh which seems to fully burn the Erdtree when it is released. So how do we get to there?
>The one (us) who walks alongside flame (Melina)... shall one day meet the road of Destined Death (the path to Farum Azula).
This prophecy seems to answer the question of why were able to get there although it doesnt really answer how. Melina burns and shoots a pillar of gold into the sky as she recites this prophecy and this is what grants us access. What is going on???? What does this represent??
Despite having hundreds of hours in game, I never did the particular sequence resulting in this dialogue until few days ago.
My point of interest is the last part. Maybe it's just phrasing or I'm overthinking it, but it sounds as if Melina wasn't actually born through biological means. She might be some kind of artificial existence and if Messmer is her brother, the same might be true for him.
The first sign that we are dealing with something more than a mere human is the sound of footsteps and the tolling bells at the beginning of the game-a mausoleum which, by having a bell, would be meant to carry the soul of a demigod child of Marika. Perhaps it was this being that carried our body close to the chapel, but there is no plausible explanation for this that doesn't point to us being a demigod. Still, we are described as a nameless Tarnished, which is also true.
Some points:
At the beginning of the game, Torrent chooses us without the lightest hesitation. There are three individuals who show familiarity with Torrent: Melina, Ranni, and Miquella. What they all have in common is that they are children of Marika/Radagon. Therefore, Torrent clearly seems to be a steed of the royal family. And, being a spirit, it can identify who we truly are.
The famous image of "The Night of the Black Knives" has always seemed ambiguous to me. It didn't clearly look like an attack; it could be interpreted as the Black Knives supporting Godwyn during a ritual. He wasn't standing-he was seated-and they didn't seem to be exerting effort to restrain a demigod capable of defeating Fortissax. I believe Melina took part in the ritual. Beyond having a Black Knife moveset, the "Official'sAttire," found just before her chamber, says:"Grubby blue robe worn by magisterial officials to carry out their grim tasks. Surveillance, executions, gruesome rituals... The darkest duties drive the wheels of mankind"
The reason Godwyn would accept going through this comes down to two things: following his mother's plan to destroy the Golden Order, and saving Ranni (his fiancée at the time) from her fate. This explains why Ranni still wears her engagement ring and adds another layer to the ending where the Tarnished becomes her consort. I've always believed the Spirit Calling Bell actually belongs to Ranni. Before the Blaidd episode, there are always three wolves at the entrance to her tower. The fact that she refers to herself in the third person at that moment is because she is hiding her identity (Renna) until she feels safe enough to reveal it.
This dialogue:
"Blaidd, and lji both...
Art willing to give too much to me.
Yet they both understand.
What lieth beyond the dark path...
That I must betray everything, and rid the world of what came before.
Ah, should i add thee to the list?
Another one, kind of heart.
As kind of heart as they.
Ach, this form hath loosened my tongue.
l've let slip too much.
Forget what thou'st heard. Forget"
Perhaps it's her slipping and refering to Godwyn-someone who no longer exists-since, although the soul is his, all of his memories were erased at the moment of his death, and that may be the reason she doesn't reveal what she knows about a past that is no longer yours
"But where does the character we create fit into this?" Godwyn's soul was killed, and even if it could reincarnate, he no longer has a body that isn't a complete monstrosity. But as we know, mausoleums in Elden Ring can both carry souls (Remembrances) and also divide them. So even though Godwyn the Golden’s soul suffered a true death, the latter was used to bring him back to life in another body
Look this description:
“LHUTEL THE HEADLESS
Legendary ashen remains. Use to summon the spirit of Lhutel the Headless.
Spirit of a headless knight who leads the mausoleum soldiers. Wields a lance enrobed in Death and hurls spectral lances at foes.
Lhutel sacrificed her life so that in Death she could continue to protect a soulless demigod until their revival*, earning her the hero's honor of Erdtree Burial.”*
There is a very similar process when Miquella transfer Radahn’s soul into Mohg’s body. That's where maybe Melina comes in. All her traits match Ranni's situation, (her body is burned, just like Ranni’s original body was also burned in the ritual) with the only difference being that she has no other body to inhabit. This leads me to believe she underwent the same ritual as Ranni, having her body destroyed but her spirit preserved. The other half of the ritual-whose soul was destroyed but whose body was preserved-is the character we create at the beginning (hero, samurai, astrologer, etc), which serves as a vessel for Godwyn's soul to reincarnate. It’s interesting to think that, when we fight Consort Radahn, it’s a battle between two demigods reborn in a body that is not their own, both fighting for the destruction and replacement of the Golden Order (if you choose Ranni side).
Another interesting point is the path taken by Godwyn's original body. I don't think it grew uncontrollably, but rather followed the path that Godwyn's soul took. His presence stretches from Deeproot Depths to Stormveil Castle, stopping exactly at the Chapel of Anticipation. According to the description of the Marred Leather Shield, the holes in Stormveil's walls with thorn-filled roots were caused by Godwyn's body:
Marred Leather Shield description:
"Leather shield of Stormveil soldiers. Miuch like the castle,it is marred by mottling and thorns.
Some say it is the curse of grafting which causes such affliction, while others talk of its root being something altogether more sinister hidden deep within the castle"
This implies that the thorny growth is Godwyn's corpse spreading through the castle. And indeed, if you visit Godwyn’s body at the base of the castle, you will see that the thorned roots are a continuation of his tendrils. As a Numen, Godwyn’s body merges with surrounding organisms and causes them to mutate, such as the crabs and the local vegetation. You can see on the ceiling of that área that the roots were originally without thorns; they only begin to develop them after emerging from the tendrils of Godwyn’s body And it spreads through the wall lies directly above the corpse, and you can see thorns growing through broken parts and in the castle tower.
Interestingly, these thorns only grow in the direction of the Chapel of Anticipation. If you go to the start of the tower bridge and look at the other side of the castle, it remains in perfect condition without thorns, It's almost as if the roots are trying to reach the Chapel of Anticipation. In fact, the same thorny roots seen in Stormveil's walls are also around the chapel, scattered and pointing toward all its entrances.
This gives a completely new interpretation to the fight against Lichdragon Fortissax. He, maybe, wouldn't be irrationally fighting against Godwyn's death, but rather against his friend's cursed body-trying to slow its spread so that his soul wouldn't be trapped within that decomposed and accursed corpse.
One last thing:
Dragonbolt blessing:
Superior incantation of the capital's ancient dragon cult.
Summons lightning to bolster the caster's body.
Attacks become easier to deflect and resistance to all ailments is increased.
However, lightning damage negation will be reduced.
Only those loved by dragons can survive the ordeal of cladding their bodies in lightning.
This incantation literally makes it clear that, for us to use it, we need to be loved by a dragon. Only two people fit that during the game: Vyke and Godwyn. We are certainly not Vyke, and until the DLC, we are not favored by any dragon… unless we have Godwyn’s soul.
I believe many will be critical and think differently—and that’s fine—but I can’t see any sense in a story so brilliantly constructed where we’re just some random nobody who achieved no renown in life, only to be chosen by the royal steed right after being revived and then miraculously receive a visit from two demigoddesses, direct daughters of Marika and Radagon, and to be gifted by both of them. All the signs pointing to you being something greater than just a nameless Tarnished, believing in that “Tarnished of no renown.” origin ends up being an act of faith, and i think that’s one of the beauties of the game: even while giving hints of what the creators had in mind, it doesn’t dictate or point to a single answer, leaving room for you to believe in something else.
TL;DR: Godfrey may not have been Hoarah Loux with Serosh attached. He may have been Serosh governing Hoarah Loux as a living vessel. Loux provided the warrior body, Serosh provided the lordly will, and “Godfrey” was the compromise between old beast divinity and Marika’s new order.
Most people treat Godfrey as Hoarah Loux with Serosh attached to him, but I think it might be closer to the other way around. People treat Serosh like the seatbelt on Hoarah Loux, but I think Serosh may have been the driver, and Loux was the car.
Hoarah Loux is mainly presented as a warrior. Once Serosh is gone, the boss name changes from Godfrey, First Elden Lord to Hoarah Loux, Warrior. Serosh, on the other hand, is not just “the lion.” He is called Lord of Beasts and Beast Regent. That wording matters because a regent does not just restrain. A regent governs.
So my theory is that Serosh was not only suppressing Hoarah Loux’s bloodlust. Serosh may have been the governing spirit that made the identity of “Godfrey” possible in the first place. Hoarah Loux was the body, strength, and battle instinct. Serosh was the lordly will that shaped all of that into something that could function as Marika’s Elden Lord.
This also makes me wonder if Hoarah Loux was simply used as a living vessel by Marika. Nothing says a vessel has to be dead or completely empty. Elden Ring already deals with spirits, bodies, and beings inhabiting or influencing other beings. In the DLC, Radahn’s soul is placed into Mohg’s body, creating a new lord out of one person’s spirit and another person’s flesh. So maybe Godfrey and Serosh were not just symbolic. Maybe Hoarah Loux was a living vessel for Serosh, but only partially taken over rather than completely replaced.
That could connect to the Divine Beast Warriors too. I am not saying they are exactly the same as Godfrey, but maybe they represent an older version of the spirit-vessel idea. Instead of warriors merely imitating divine beasts, maybe their bodies were fully given over to divine or lordly beast spirits. They could be dead bodies, emptied bodies, or willing bodies surrendered completely. In that case, a Divine Beast Warrior would be a full takeover, while Godfrey would be a partial one. Hoarah Loux was still alive and still in there, but Serosh was suppressing and governing him enough to create the public identity of Godfrey; it was always his will speaking with Loux's voice.
Miquella’s Radahn/Mohg situation could then be a later and more complex version of the same kind of idea. Radahn’s soul takes Mohg’s body, which is the vessel part. Then Miquella attaches himself to Radahn in phase two and seems to guide or suppress him. So Miquella may be combining both methods: a soul placed into another body, and an attached being controlling or steering that lord.
This makes Godfrey feel less like “Hoarah Loux with a lion restraint” and more like a compromise between old beast-divinity ideas and Marika’s newer order. Hoarah Loux provided the vessel; Serosh provided the lord, Together, they became "God's peace" and ushered in Marika.
That also changes how I read the phase transition. When Serosh starts to separate from Loux and become more physical, Loux immediately grabs and kills him. If Serosh was only a limiter, then this is just Godfrey removing his restraint. But if Serosh was the driver of the Godfrey identity, then Loux is killing the part of himself that made him Godfrey. After that, the game does not call him Godfrey anymore. It calls him Hoarah Loux, Warrior. So maybe phase two is not just Godfrey revealing his true self but whats is left after Hoarah Loux kills "Godfrey".
One extra speculation if this theory is true: maybe this is part of why “Godfrey” was sent away and Marika needed a new lord. If Serosh was tied to older beast-divinity traditions, he may not have approved of what Marika later did to the Hornsent, the Land of Shadow, and divine beast culture. Maybe Serosh only joined her because they shared an enemy in the Giants and the Flame of Ruin. He may have helped her quell the flame to protect the older crucible/tree tradition, only for Marika to later betray that world, seal it away, and create the Erdtree order over it.
This is isn't about gameplay but more on lore. I want to say no as incantations don't require divine favor or religious devotion to weild them, and some would say that is gameplay but look at gideon and the fire monks, both using outer god powers while loyal to Marika. Plus from what I know, that ending in the best case senario, allows humanity to choose its own path since her order would far from the reach of the lands between.
(This question came to mind as I was planning to play a bloodflame knight who chose to humor Rogier's request in investigating Ranni.)
The theory is that Count Ymir and Preceptor Miriam were once together, before sadly losing their child. This caused Miriam to become obsessed with her work/studies, and Ymir to become obsessed with motherhood and the Fingers.
Highly speculative theory, so treat it as such. Additionally, some strings that one could pull at for fun: