u/Thick-Campaign-9152

This is isn't about gameplay but more on lore. I want to say no as incantations don't require divine favor or religious devotion to weild them, and some would say that is gameplay but look at gideon and the fire monks, both using outer god powers while loyal to Marika. Plus from what I know, that ending in the best case senario, allows humanity to choose its own path since her order would far from the reach of the lands between.

(This question came to mind as I was planning to play a bloodflame knight who chose to humor Rogier's request in investigating Ranni.)

This is for people who know the lore of both dark souls and elder ring

So I know both don't require devotion or divine favor (though that can help). Miracles in dark souls i know are stories or at least documentations that if you believe the authenticity of, you can yse the magic described. Now I have made the mistake of trying to put logic behind why miracles worked when the whole point is that it doesn't make logical sense and it's more of a "it just works".

So do incantations follow a similar usage or do they something different?

I know miracles are tales that describe a magical feat and one's belief casts it. The heal miracle says this "To cast a miracle, the caster learns a tale of the Gods, and says a prayer to be blessed by its revelations." But we know the gods are not omnipotent and that the idea the gods actually control these powers is a lie to keep the humans believing they need them. So is the prayer actually more accurately just help you focus on the spell?

Also, since we can't read the actual text it is harder to determine how learning the tale helps you cast it. I want to believe it details how the individual casted it and them rough having faith in what it instructs makes it happen as that makes more sense than believing something happened in history and now you can... just do it now? But I want your thoughts and ideas.

This one is for the lore addicts. So from what I understand is that most miracles are stories describing a magical event in such good deal that you can mimic what is being described in the text through believing it, so like if your knowledge on history and literature gave you magical power. But I also saw that some miracles, particularly Dorhy's Gnaw and Aldrich's lifehunt scythe miracles where created through some kind of spiritual meditation of sorts. So my best guess is that miracles can be created through multiple means but requires intense emotion for it to manifest?

Also, while we can't read the text of miracles themselves so we can only guess, but how do we actually use the miracles in lore? I know it's belief in the text but does it like actually describe what the was done to make it happen? To make this easier to understand what i mean let's use lighting spear as an example is it more like "gwyn casted lighting spears" and now you just can cast lighting spears, or "Gwyn raised his hand and focus his mind thoughts of lightning and through that concentration conjured it" and mimicking the steps taken and having the strong emotional belief that it will work, and thus you can do it? I want to think the second one because I feel simply knowing something doesn't make much sense as if that was cast than technically anything could become a miracle. Please do note with the second possibility I do not mean "why it works" as that would be sorcery.