r/vegancirclejerk

Tell me I'm lost. It's probably a B12 deficiency...

Fun fact: horses are the most ethical "livestock," because they are not factory farmed and are often discarded from other exploitive industries. As long as the goal wasn't murder, it's totally ethical, right? Right??

I'm vegan btw (Well, close enough! Horses don't count the same as the factory-abused species, just like fish don't count as much as cows, or pet food doesn't count as much as human food, or leather doesn't count as much as flesh...)

uj/ The carnivore diet subs on Reddit are basically like the anti-VCJ. They often jerk just as hard in the wrong direction. It is time to start noticing when they outjerk us without giving them legitimacy.

I've been seeing a lot of arguing here about all kinds of things that as far as I'm concerned aren't anywhere near as important as the main issue that has brought us all together in the first place - where to find the cheapest Impassible Whooper. We all have opinions on things like feeding animals to other, cuter animals, stealing the eggs from birds you brought home just to get something from them, or whether it's okay to eat the last bite of your friend's cow cheesecake because they're full and if you don't take it it's headed for the trash just like the gnarly bits of the corpse of the mother it was stolen from. Sure we can talk about all that stuff and there will definitely be disagreements, but I hope we don't end up excluding anyone because of things like this that when compared to all the stuff we agree on (I saw an Impassible Whooper for $3 a few weeks ago!) is pretty small and insignificant.

...however, since I would be vegan in between two bites, that means I would be twice as vegan as you... I will now stop consuming animals products altogether so I only become vegan ONCE, now you'll make zero difference!

Checkmate vegoons

Hi I'm an ex-vegan (went vegan for 2 weeks). Unfortunately eating nothing but plants (Oreos and Pringles) made me severly vitamine difficient. i need help reintroducing meat back into my diet but every time i eat a piece of ham i get ""The Ick."" How did you go back to eating animals after getting brainwashed by the vegan agenda?

I mean, *technically* it is an animal product but we do know that not all animals are animals (I.e fish) and since cows aren’t ever abused, isn’t manure vegan? Asking for a friend

Let's just all eat more meat than ever, and feed cats 100% meat, and buy leather and use tallow and...just complain endlessly about factory farms and animal cruelty. But of course, when nothing changes, well, it wasn't our fault. Best of all, we don't have to change! Because so long as the system isn't getting our verbal support, surely it will crumble, right??? (Wait, why isn't this working?!)

The benefits of the complainivore:

1. No dietary or lifestyle change required (eat all the steak, eggs, butter, bacon you want!).

2. No requirement to really engage deeply with the moral horror of killing animals (because complaining solves everything).

3. Zero brainpower required (AI can write the complaints for you since they are so cookie-cutter that they require no thought).

4. No moral guilt over pet food, taxes, animal-tested products, tallow-containing plastics, etc.

5. No judgment from your friends and family who aren't vegan (because neither are you).

So I have recently been trying to give up meat. However, between my literal cravings for the stuff (including keeping me up all night from the withdrawals), the urge to eat nothing but chocolate chip cookies unless I am munching on animal flesh, and the fact that my pets still eat 100% non-vegan food, I have stumbled upon a great idea. If the cats can, according to a leading PETA organizer in my neighborhood, eat all the meat they want and it is totally ethical, because it is just “scraps” and “they need it,” who’s to say I cannot eat that myself? After all, I think my emotional and mental unwellness requires an exception to the vegan code of ethics too, just like pets, right???

I have been looking at different pet food and trying to find high-quality, human-grade options. I was stunned by the number of animals I could eat ethically. They have everything from dead chickens and cows on tap to dead horses to even dead kangaroos and beavers. Best of all, because it was from the pet store, totally vegan, right? After, it would be “unrealistic” to apply vegan morals while at PetSmart, right? Only my Whole Foods receipt must be non-carnist.

Equinetarian horse-eater here. We should demand horses change their Neu5Gc for Neu4Gc immediately! Because 4 is a luckier number to me, so maybe I wouldn't get inflammation??? Also, severely B12-deficient and protein-deficient. Send help soon, I need my horse meat! No, no other meat will do, I have strict morals against all but the noble equine's flesh.

Sounds like a vegan misanthrope to me.

I have linked at least seven studies to prove the dangers of such, particularly in regards to western veganism, already disproving everything you’ve said. Your one study isn’t going to disprove seven. Furthermore, one of mine completely debunked your claims. The same study also stated that benefits of plant based diets, vegetarians, and vegan health was drawn from numbers of Seventh Day Adventists, and Buddhist monks. I hate to break it to you, but Seventh Day Adventists… typically align with MAGA. Not only that, but religious groups aren’t typically the best to pull data from. The preferred is general population, across many races, religions, cultures, etc. so as it stands, the claims could be that being a Seventh Day Adventist or a Taiwanese Buddhist Monk leads to lower rates of cancer, diabetes, and heart disease. Right? But parroting the same line over and over, when it’s not exactly precise, nor aligns with your source… really helps your credibility, and the claim that veganism is rooted in science, and NOT anti science. I even linked studies supporting veganism. Maybe you’re a little too thick to understand. Here, we’ll prove it: “TMAO has been implicated in various (cardio)vascular diseases and is a potential contributing factor in colorectal cancer.” Soooo… it sounds like you cherry picked, and decided your own information. Sure would hate for me to dig into the article more, because this is just from the abstract. Oh! How funny, one of the smallest sample sizes yet! Since you’ve transcended, I’m sure you can tell the class why sample sizes and demographics matter. But comparing health benefits of less than 700 people (vegans) to almost 20,000 isn’t an even playing field. While the authors made a large stink of variety in the dataset, pulling data from individuals in Italy, the UK, the US. The large majority of data comes from the US, with like 70 people from some random countries brought in. I see this as more of a potential for outlier data and an inaccuracy of data. My initial comment was about a raw food vegan, whose child ended up with rickets. A piece, published by the University of Sydney, in which it states that animal-based diets reduce infant mortality, and child mortality, however this sounds more like an outtake of other research. Furthermore, while aiming to prove the point of veganism. Best they could say was that they studied the population of 100 countries, which countries had more plants in the diet, and which countries ate more meat. They said that countries that ate more plants, and had a more plant-based diet, lived longer. Which isn’t exactly definitive, it’s a vagueness more than anything. So looking into it more, it’s actually pretty well known. In low to middle class income (LMIC) families, animal products provide essential nutrients for all facets of development in children. Which can be translated as, LMIC may not have the education, time, ability to accurately supplement all nutritional needs with a plant based diet; when cheaper, more available, and excellent sources of particular needed nutrients are available. Again, we’re talking about western veganism, particularly the US. Everyone’s poor. Everyone is about to be priced out of everything. We were set up to fail. Interesting… it’s… it’s almost as if the large majority of the American diet is based on plants, with 30% of such is based on animal products. Not even just… “corpses.” This one’s just another article on animal products supporting the growth and development of children. And another thing, reading into your post history. I want to address mental health associations with veganism. Here, the NHS talking about guidelines and recommendations of refeeding in eating disorder patients. Interestingly enough, it was suggested that veganism is a symptom of a disorder, rather than a dietary/lifestyle choice. Not to mention the already established correlation with anxiety and depression. I really hope you’re seeing the professionals you need to, as this sounds like a bigger issue than Reddit’s paygrade. Splitting while talking/being around these topics doesn’t sound or even seem healthy, nor does it sound like a healthy relationship with food. Most of your comments felt reminiscent of some of the worst mental health crisis’s I’ve ever seen, so I am saying this sincerely, please reach out if you need resources, clearly I love finding things. I leave most sleeping dogs lie, but I’ve had time today. But seriously, and genuinely, you do not sound well, your post history indicates much worse. So cussing, screaming, calling people names, quoting one study, and claiming every study I’ve linked is paid off by corpse eaters, doesn’t help your claim that veganism is rooted in science. You. Are. Not. Well. This is not normal or mentally well behavior. Claiming to know my life off of my experience, is not mentally well behavior. Please seek help, call your therapist, psychiatrist, or get one. If insurance is an issue, I am more than happy to help you navigate. Throughout all this, my claim has been the same. Veganism is not rooted in science. Association with religious groups, no matter how long, does not support that it is rooted in science, quite the obvious really. Most of what I’ve said is and asked is concise language and informed consent. If western vegans were aware of nutritional deficiencies, and issues with the supplement industry, then that is the choice they need to make in their life. If the risks are known, go for it. But I’m not going to sit here and parrot that animal based diets are horrible, when they are some of the most accessible sources for essential nutrients, ESPECIALLY when children are involved. Anecdotally, I’ve always thought fad diets were more of a symptom of an eating disorder than anything. But if your main claim to support that the diet is rooted in science is data from religious groups… boy do I have news for you. We cannot reliably count on Americans to balance plates when the vast majority are functionally illiterate. In a perfect world where everyone had access to information and were literate, and crops were incentivized, then yes! Veganism is an excellent choice, and we should all strive towards it. But unfortunately, we don’t. Not everything is black and white. Not everyone has perfectly functioning bodies. Not everyone has knowledge and access. Not everyone is mentally healthy. Furthermore, many groups pushing this information… aren’t great. They may appeal to you, and a soft heart. But their ethics are to be disputed. Because when you ask them what the end goal is, they clam up. The end goal is absolutely no domestication. None. With no advocacy of conservation efforts. I assure you, I’m also for the betterment of animal welfare. But ending all domestication, ending conservation efforts is unfeasible, not to mention disgusting. I’m not going to bring up a particular group’s euthanasia rate, as that seems like a low blow. But I will bring up chickens!! Sometime last year, in California, the judge threw the book at an individual who stole 4 chickens from a poultry farm where she worked. But I really want to talk about the moving parts and the context of why what they did really sucked. So the chicken they stole, was a Cornish cross. A very heavy hybrid bird, yes they do grow too big to support themselves. Yes, they do grow rapidly. But let’s think… the faster and bigger a bird grows, the less suffering and less slaughter will have to be done. While advantageous in a capitalistic setting, it’s also reducing the number of slaughter to meat produced, and instead of a year timeline, it’s now 12 to 18 weeks. So when an individual steals an animal that isn’t compatible with life beyond a young age, with no plan to mitigate or euthanize, just keep as a pet. What was the point? Because now we have subjected 4 animals to prolonged suffering for absolutely no reason. Or we can talk about the ostrich case. The government demand the flock to be euthanized, and these people are “fighting,” to keep them alive. Ahhhh but there’s the fine print… the owners just want more money per bird. Not exactly want to keep their babies alive. They pose an extreme risk to all birds. It sucks. But instead of a mass extinction event, one flock can just take the hit.