u/Surviving_Findom

Yes, there's a hierarchy in Findom, or the idea of Findom; Dommes > Subs. But it is an artificial, self-imposed hierarchy. Nothing more.

Contrary to what the supposed current Findom "meta" might tell you, your role as a sub is not innately "Pay a domme to exist in the most convinient-for-him/her fashion possible while being abundantly grateful for anything at all you might receive in return".

If you like the pay someone to exist, human ATM or whatever model; dispensing your cash for bare-minimum in return, that's totally fine. You can do with your money as you please - dump it in a sewer for all anyone really cares. But that doesn't have to be Findom for you. You can in fact expect something in return for the $10's, $100's or $1000's you might be sending a person.

This might sound unbelievably obvious to a lot of the people in PPSG, but as much as Findom is about symbolically (key word) giving up your money/comforts for another person's gain, you absolutely can ask "what's in it for me?". It doesn't have to be as blatantly transactional as that, but you're sending a lot of money to a person who barely exists in your real life in the case of online findom; and though the rush of doing so might be enough for you sometimes, you should pause on occasion and ask yourself "am I REALLY happy to just dispense on cue until I tap out and need to wait for my next payday?" If the answer is no, speak up for yourself.

Drains don't need to take place over the course of an hour. You don't have to endure a dry, boring, redundant, devoid of excitement conversation, of which 50% of the word count consists of "send, do it again, double it, more...". Better is out there, dommes that will actually work to find out those buttons you're desperate to have pushed, deliver an experience, or literally anything of substance. Often times you're either having awful luck in finding it, or you're lazy/stupidly horny and just looking for a fix, and just settling for less.

Yeah "Findom these days ain't what it used to be", but as lazy, uninspired and clearly disinterested in you or the kink as some of these dommes are, at some point you do need to actively ask for/demand better. Otherwise, you're just rewarding the worst this space has to offer. Maybe that's your thing, but it's not the standard. Not even close.

I've seen a lot of takes throughout my time on both reddit and twitter, but it seems to be a topic that has had a surge of talk on both platforms.

The extremely watered down TL:DR of the takes, by my estimation is this:

Twitter dommes think Reddit dommes are cringe/"pick me" types that take it too seriously.

Reddit dommes think Twitter dommes are ill-informed, cash-hungry opportunists roleplaying as Findoms in the "BDSM sense" that lack substance and perhaps often fall into "unethical territory"

Whether these assessments are spot on or wildly out of place, all of this circles back to just "domme in-fighting". And my assumption (PLEASE correct me, fellow subs if I am wrong) is that subs do not give a flying fuck about debates(?) or arguments like this.

People go to a strip club to see hot girls dance, or maybe buy a dance from them? Idk, I've genuinely never been to one. But I can assume with confidence that they don't go to watch girls argue with each other about who is the better dancer, who is stripping the right way, or who earns the most and is therefore the best or whatever.

There's nothing innately wrong with these conversations existing, but I always thought it was just really embarassing. I could understand if it was "behind the scenes" or in domme spaces or whatever, but seeing it all get aired out across posts and comment sections just feels really cringey.

Subs obviously have our own preferences or platforms of choice for different reasons, and while clowing on "tiktok dommes" and the like does happen, it's usually a comment on lack of experience these dommes might have, or hiw Findom is just the trojan horse for a bunch of greedy, money hungry people entirely disinterested in building kink-based dynamics, and just looking for a quirky side hustle.

Am I wrong? Are you guys invested in these types of arguments dommes have, or does it turn you on at all to "pick sides" or something like that? Is this another non-issue I've made a far-too-long post about that nobody even knew or cared to know existed?

TL;DR - The parts of the show that have been compared to Findom (of which they are few) barely have anything to do with actual Findom; mostly just touches on Findom adjacent stuff, but this is NOT the main focus of the show.
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Immediately going against my "SUBSONLY" post I made earlier only because I feel like this is a topic that's worth hearing dommes thoughts on, if it is even capable of provoking thoughts from anyone. I picked up Euphoria because I had heard some grumblings about it in some Findom spaces. Also just curious how anything Findom-adjacent gets portrayed on more mainstream platforms. This is another long af read, so I've tried to make it at least entertaining.

BRIEF storyline is that the show follows a bunch of teens in highschool. Main girl Rue (Zendaya) is a drug addict, then a smattering of other characters eventually find themselves in Findom-esque story arcs. I don't think the term FINDOM is ever actually used; various forms of it are touched upon, some might argue that none of them are Findom at all, but the reach can be reached.

Season 1/2 - Not gonna bore anyone to death with entire plots, only what I noticed as Findom-related stuff. S1 and/or 2 has the only storyline that I think could actually be called Findom. There's this one girl, Kat, who basically writes erotica and fan-fic. She develops a cult following and has a nude photo of her leaked somewhere along the way following a party or something. Nude photo reaches her cult fans (I think?) and they all start THIRSTING and wanting to see more from "their queen".

She takes this as her cue to try camming, first posting basically porn on porn websites, which progresses to more intimate, 1 on 1 sessions. During a 1 on 1 session, she gets talking to a self-proclaimed PayPig (I'm not 100% sure if that's how he establishes himself, but the term does come up in relation to him), who asks her to use him and control his orgasms and stuff, which she obliges, steadily becoming more comfortable and seamless at taking his money. Things like $100 cum-without-permission taxes or clothes off a wishlist. This whole storyline is a roundabout way of this character "finding her confidence" as she's portrayed as the type who isn't super successful romantically/sexually, but after her Dominatrix Debut, finds herself able to get tonnes of boys or whatever. Something else happens, then she has a cam session with this sinister, faceless/voice altered figure - the implication being that she's entering the "darker side" of camming with horny strangers online for money. I'm pretty sure this plot is abandoned/loosely referenced to after that, but might rear it's ugly head later in Season 3.

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Season 3 - Where the Kat storyline outlined above vaguely gets into what I think can be called a Findom dynamic of sorts, Season 3 really doesn't do that so far. In season 3, all the girlies have graduated(?) from High-College-School of whatever Americans call that place and have moved onto some form of adulthood.

Every single main girl seemingly becomes somehow intertwined in some kind of Onlyfans/Sugar Daddy/Seedy business or world. It's all very California Coded, where the show is set.

Cassie (Sydney Sweeney, you may know her from a jeans advert everyone got upset about?) wants to become TikTok famous or something? Her means of doing so is of course doing what every girl who wants to be a social media superstar has written in her childhood journal; dressing up like a dog and conducting soft-core porn. These videos are recorded by her MAID because she's engaged to Nate (don't ask, you won't care) who has his dad's company now because dad's a turbo freak and had to go to jail. The company isn't doing so great though and Nate's in a little hot water financially, despite the enormous house and the maid? Come on guys keep up.

Well Cassie and Nate want to get married but, the aforementioned financial troubles Nate's construction firm is facing threatens to force them to downsize their wedding. Downsizing a wedding in California, from what I understand, is a fate worse than death. So Cassie, having become a soft-core porn extraordinaire, reckons starting an OnlyFans is the only way to save her from a "Ghetto Wedding" (actual line in the show).

At this point, I need to tell you that by "downsizing the wedding" - Cassie's entire motivation to start an OnlyFans circles back to the two of them being unable to afford a $50,000 floral arrangement. I don't mention this because it's a ludicrous condition in it's own right (it most certainly is), but because I cannot understate how many times the $50,000 floral arrangement is referenced and made to be integral to the wedding of these two 20-something year olds special day.

Nate didn't like the doggy video on TikTok, and MEGA doesn't like the idea of Cassie having an OnlyFans. But Cassie threatens to break up wi- ... eh no, sorry; Cassie threatens to POSTPONE THE WEDDING which is another cardinal sin I believe, and so Nate folds and tells her she can have the OnlyFans, but only under the very reasonable and not at all dumb as fuck condition that she can't show her face AND her tits in the same photos/videos. What this will do for her/their privacy or dignity, I have no idea.

A whole lot of words and nothing related to actual Findom. At best, it touches on the "OF Pipeline" that gets talked about a lot online, but instead of the usual motivation of "I wanna be paid to exist/easy income/be set for life in my 20's", the motivation is a $50,000 floral arrangement for their wedding. Cassie ends up exploring some, what I would consider pretty niche content. In one scene, she dresses up like a baby. She also touches on more "normalized" fetishes like feet and stuff. It's all very bizarre and even I, seasoned internet gremlin, kinda winced at some of it.

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The only other character that has something that even remotely resembles a Findom-esque situation is Joules. Joules is a trans woman who likes having sex. She discovers that she can date and have sex with older men for a lot of money, which culminates in her becoming a full time sugar baby for some dude who has a family and all the rest of it. That's really it so far; I wish there was more to say about this character given that I got stun-locked by Cassie and her $50,000 fl-, but this plot doesn't really thicken as of yet.

I IMAGINE each of these arcs will take some kind of dark, abusive turn where somehow, some way, the whole "being paid to exist by way of social media stardom/sugar daddy's dough" will fall apart and blow up in the girls faces. Something as unexpected, cinematic and totally unpredictable like that, no doubt.

So given the talk that I've seen about this show so far and how it might relate to Findom spaces in some way, here's my take; it doesn't. The one storyline that actually felt Findom esque (Kat from S 1 and 2) has been benched, at least for now. It doesn't even do a particularly good job of highlighting why young girls might get swallowed up into seedy worlds like this, because none of the characters who end up in "porn/Findom/sugar daddy" dynamics really have much of a motivation to get involved in any of this stuff beyond it being a quirky/shock-value story-line of sorts. It's not interesting and very uninspired. The drug addiction storylines (which to be fair, are the main focus) are far better. The inclusion of Onlyfans, Findom-esque nods and Sugar Daddies feel more akin to the time I added WAY too much salt to a sauce I was making. Entirely unnecessary.

The show's okay. Mostly watchable slop. Not worth watching if you're a finsub looking to see profound media about Findom. Maybe worth watching if you have a weird obsession with Sydney Sweeney. 3/10 - that episode that featured Cassies Sister's play was pretty good. Fezco is the GOAT🙏.

Nearly once a day, I'll be at work or out for a walk, something. I'll see a person and just wonder "what is your life like?"

It could be perfect, or maybe awful. It could be riddled with all kinds of stresses and pains, or maybe it's full of joy. I think to myself "they probably have no idea what Findom even is", and they probably don't.

Today I saw an old man on a walk. He had a dog, also old. He had a fishing rod over his shoulder and a box in his hand. I was behind him only briefly when he bumped into a friend and stopped. They started chatting. As I passed them by, they gave me a nod and a "hiya".

Maybe they thought something of me as I passed them, or maybe nothing at all. They certainly didn't think "there goes a recovering Findom addict".

This is all very slice of life, but nearly once a day I see another person that grounds me, for one reason or another. They make me feel silly for thinking about Findom as much as I have over the past few years.

This for me is one of the values about going for walks and just getting off the internet and away from this space.

Before I get into another unsolicited rant, here's a quick TL;DR as to why I'm doing this:

1. It's a support group for subs, yet I feel like I'm talking to nothing but DOMME
2. MOST domme comments I have seen under posts seemingly written by or aimed at subs are at best; "mild/soft agreement or vague acknowledgement for the sake of getting their name out there" or at worst "Actively posturing themselves to be picked up by the OP/other subs lurking in the comments"
3. I actively want to hear more persepectives from SUBS and create more conversations where subs voices are the focal point.
4. I've complained many times about PPSG being a majority domme space, yet rarely used the tag that is purpose-built to create sub-only spaces/discussions. That's really dumb on my part.

When I first joined this sub, I didn't fully get why I liked Findom and actively wanted to hear other experiences and perspectives. I have absolutely heard many, and I am grateful for that! Even when I first joined though, I was surprised at how many dommes where on the scene. It obviously makes sense in hindsight - "Fish where the fish are" sums it up, although I don't want to down-play some of the genuinely good and healthy discussions I have had with dommes on here!

I even threw out a poll asking the simple question "are you a sub or a domme?" and unsurprisingly, the majority where dommes (55 dommes to 41 subs who contributed). This was a 1 day long poll I posted on a random Friday, so it isn't exactly ironclad statistics. But it still reflects the trend. I would be interested to see a pinned poll that lasted longer to capture a better idea of actual figures if mods felt like that'd be a good idea!

Don't get me wrong, I'm aware dommes are welcome. I've challenged it many times via posts in the past, but come to accept it's not my group so it's not my business. But having posted here a little while now, I can say with confidence that most of the contributions to my posts and others not only come from dommes, but are really just not very helpful or add little to the subject matter.

Most of the replies I get or have seen on other posts boil down to "so true", "this is exacly what I've been saying", "I can't believe that happened to you", "have you tried a <insert domme style that happens to match their own>?".

Not every reply has to be an essay and vague comments that either support or disagree with my latest opinion I threw out while in the work bathroom aren't doing any harm. It's just that these comment sections almost always become dominated by dommes (pun intended).

Domme's input isn't useless or entirely unhelpful, and most of the actually unhelpful or non-contributary comments like "DM ME" are thankfully removed by the mod team. But it simply isn't what I expected to be dealing with when I first came to what is, by my limited estimation, the largest Finsub-related sub on Reddit. It isn't what I was looking for.
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I now want to shift the conversation a little. Maybe you could say "who cares if dommes are in the space? Subs are here too, they do discuss things, those conversations happen, just ignore the dommes". There are indeed subs here, sharing experiences and asking questions to one another, the space isn't in the turmoil I'm maybe making it out to be.

But through engaging for a while, I've noticed trends. Subs asking, talking about, or even implying simple preferences are frequently down-voted. There's a big range here - For example, a sub talking about their preference for considerably younger (but legal) dommes, and a few eye-brows are raised. Maybe that's warranted or gut-instinct to many of us, but it's also unhelpful and discouraging for someone just trying to explore and discuss their valid version of Findom.

Another, more pertinent example is the topic of male dommes. Questions or experiences regarding subs seeking or having dynamics with male dommes are often down-voted, subject to some form of ridicule (sometimes subtle, sometimes not) or they get subjected to classics like "have you tried fin-cucking?" (i.e. "have you tried serving women?"), "Wanna serve my boyfried?" (i.e. "wanna serve me, a woman, via my boyfriend who is NOT a Findom"?) and so on. These aren't down-voted because of homophobia (maybe sometimes they are in small doses), they're downvoted because a big lump of the people engaging in these posts are female dommes at risk of losing a customer. Maybe that's a stretch, but also I want it to be more recognised that when a sub makes a post expressing their desire to explore another side of Findom like this, your down-votes, scathing criticisms and snark are unbelievably discouraging and add absolutely NOTHING to the conversation/question the sub is trying to pose.

So once again, it's a sub support group - but the posts that perform the best are the ones that celebrate, speak well of, or are in some way favourable of dommes, and the posts that get little to no engagement, or are actively downvoted/discouraged are related to near anything else.

Back to why I'm using SUBS ONLY! from now on - because I've heard enough from dommes in a support group for subs. I want to speak about findom with the people I can relate to; the subs. I want to create conversations and spaces where that is more welcomed and I'd LOVE for more subs to find their voices as it were in conversations like this. Separately, I'm also sick of feeling the need to lace my post with constant affirmations of "NOT ALL DOMMES ARE LIKE THIS!!" to appease the inevitable wave of dissenting opinions I might get where I not to tip-toe carefully enough through the minefield of accidentally offending a domme and or their style of findom/preferred approaches.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not about to go posting "Why All Dommes are Stupid and Bad Lol: !!!SUBSONLY!!!". I'll be mindful that in using the subs only tag, I'm creating productive conversations for subs and not just excuses to blindly hate on dommes.

As always, probably none of it is that deep. But I complain a lot about this sort of thing for somebody who does in fact have tools available to alleviate this problem. Cue that picture of the dude shoving a stick through his own bicycle tyre and falling to the ground.

I've said this countless times: where do you think we are? We're not in a workplace, at a bar/club, on the streets - we're in a DELIBERATELY UNREGULATED space on the internet.

It is unregulated by design/desire; it's a space that many subs come to in a purposeful attempt to get away from the rules and regulations of the world, whatever that might look like to each person.

When you sign up to be a sub or a domme, nobody is asking that you leave your ethics and values at the door. Instead, just keep them in your pocket. Use them as YOUR guidelines. Rules of engagement FOR YOU.

There is no law binding you to interact with every single sub or domme on this space who makes you feel uncomfortable. Or upset. Or unsafe. Or even just bored. If you don't like an interaction on this space, the magic is that you can simply ignore it. You can block them, you can report them even.

But why must we hear you come into the space, 3-6 months of experience in Findom (a generous estimate) and start laying down universal codes of ethics and rules for engagement.

I've seen so many of these posts and comments on this sub and others, all in different flavours. From the simple expectation of decency from a community frankly filled with very indecent people, or at least people with indecent intentions. To demands for communication as if the majority of people on this space are looking to iron out highly detailed, considered social/financial arrangements. So, so many just unnecesary, unrealistic opinions.

Opinions on their own are fine, but they are NEVER posed as "just opinions" or suggestions. They are always - ALWAYS dumped onto this space in the most condescending, matter-of-fact ways imaginable.

So with that in mind, here is a list of things I am personally over hearing about in a tone oozing with condescension and un-earned authority:

1: Age Verification - Most subs (and many dommes) do NOT want to link their real selves/ID's to ANY website or platform that ties them to Findom spaces for fear of exposure, among others

2: Ethical vs Unethical Findom - Nobody gives a shit about this debate and it is simply an excuse to posture and pretend that their way of taking subs money is either "REAL Findom", hotter than your way of taking it, or more morally correct/valid.

3. Harassment/indecency - you mean to tell me that you're getting unhinged, horny messages on a corner of the internet dedicated to anonymity, kink and varying degrees of degeneracy? Nobody wants you to get harassed, but for the love of god just block, report and FORGET. Vent about it if you must, but advocate for YOURSELF and other dommes by rejecting the behaviour, rather than trying to demand better from strangers on the internet.

4: Budgetting, After-Care, Wellbeing Gurus/Lifestyle Coaches - you have an internet connection, a reddit account and a Throne page. None of you - NONE OF YOU are qualified to give any form of financial or lifestyle advice.

You have no idea how best subs should be taking care of themselves within or beyond your dynamic with them. You have no idea how to budget for a sub because they are almost never going to tell you about every single expense, bill or daily cost to survive they have, and you trying to jam "sending money to me" into their routine expenses is bizarre and deeply unhelpful, even when masked as "concern that they are overspending on findom".

Also if you happen to be some kind of therapist or financial advisor offline? Then you should know that this is a disgusting and bizarre abuse of that position, but moreover it is COMPLETELY unrelated to engaging in a findom space beyond being a quirky niche you might choose to market yourself with.

5: "Communication is Key" - this is one of those useless, nothing sentences that people drop because it's easier to say this than to try and give out any nuanced or pointed advice to a person. It is the "Drink water" of findom advice.

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Here's the thing though about all of the above. If age verification is important or a must for you? Use it! Defining yourself as ethical/unethical helps you frame the type of findom you want to deliver, or if you like the labels for any fuck reason? Use them! Operate how you PLEASE on this space, but for the love of god save us the lectures.

Speaking of lectures, thanks for reading mine. I will now lead by example and never ever make another post about this shite ever again (a week tops).