r/wildhearthstone

Is there a more exhausting combo to play against and lose to?

Is there a more exhausting combo to play against and lose to?

Just for going wide lol instantly punished with multiple hero power pings nearly for free because of this bs combo

u/MSakuEX — 4 days ago

Two Tier Lists - High Legend and The Climb

Who made this?

These tier lists were made by myself and done in collaboration with u/Nafain. I'm a regular top legend wild player, occassional streamer and highly engaged in the top legend community. Nafain on the other hand has only spent the last six months in the top 10 of both the NA and EU servers and is also heavily engaged in the community.

The write up has been done by me with a quick sanity check by Nafain.

Quick Disclosure

Every deck in hearthstone can get win streaks over a small enough of a sample. This tier list is designed to describe the consistency and reproducibility of the results across the wider player base.

Two different tier lists? What do they mean?

Before we go into the details of each tier list, lets break down what each of these categories are.

High Legend

High legend can be categorised as trying to push your legend number as high as possible inside the 11x mmr bracket. For those unaware, if your mmr is that of approximately the top 10% of legend, you start the month with an 11 star bonus. In the Americas and Europe servers, this roughly translates to being in the top 300-400 of the leaderboard. Once you're trying to push your number as high as possible, and queueing almost exclusively against people inside this MMR bracket, this tier list is designed to inform you as to what will climb on average the most successfully. This also extends to people who are trying to reach these numbers for the first time and climb out of lower mmrs.

When you find yourself in this space, people are more often playing good decks, and additionally they are playing much better. As a result, decks that are hard to play perform better than they would at lower ranks, and decks with linear gameplans that pray upon do nothing gameplay get substantially weaker. Additionally, you can't win consistently by being completely anti-aggro, because the aggro decks start to both learn their outs better and have a decreased playrate, and the other powerful decks of the format bully you out.

In high legend we will classify the tiers as follows:

Tier 1 - Able to climb in almost any pocket meta

Tier 2 - Able to climb in most pocket metas

Tier 3 - Able to climb, but relies mostly on finding favourable matchups

Unlisted - Won't be able to climb without a pilot capable of much better over a sustained period of time

The Climb

This tier list affects at least 90% of the people reading this post, whether you want to reach legend for the first time, or do the normal 10x climb. For those of you who don't know, at every point of the climb, you are playing against people in your mmr bucket, not rank. If you are 10x, it doesn't matter if you're bronze 10 or diamond 6, you'll play against other 10x players. Once you run out of star bonuses, you start playing against everyone that's also out of stars, ultimately cumulating in everyone who isn't 11x playing against each other in D5-Legend. There's a little more nuance to this because your mmr mid climb can change but lets keep this simplified system for the sake of example.

When you find yourself in this space, people are playing a wider variety of decks, whether it be decks designed to farm this space or silly home brews that get farmed in this space. Additionally, most people in this rank bracket are playing quite averagely when compared to high legend. Overall, this means that aggro decks which prey upon suboptimal play, and decks with linear gameplans perform substantially better. It's not that aggro is op, its that the average player here is letting aggro beat them much more often. Additionally, we find an increased play rate in aggro, so dedicated and simple anti-aggro decks perform quite well here.

In the climb we will classify the tiers as follows:

Tier 1 - the fastest and simplest climb to legend

Tier 2 - a fast and simple climb, but not quite as fast and simple as tier 1

Tier 3 - a fast climb if you're comfortable with the deck, otherwise a slow climb

Tier 4 - legend viable if you understand the deck

Unlisted - you can get to legend with pretty much anything in wild if you're good at it. Don't worry if nots here. There's also a lot of decks that are tier 3 or better that are omitted due to small sample sizes. If you ask about them in the comments you will only be proving that wild players are illiterate.

Tier 1 Decks

Token QLDH - This deck is unequivocally the best deck in the format when played properly. The key words here being when played properly. The deck requires high APM turns, and also lots of difficult decisions to be made very quickly. Unless you put in a lot of time, or have an existing background in QLDH decks, it is unlikely you will find success. This is the reason we find it in tier 2 for the climb, even though the meta there is more friendly for it. However. if you do, this is the best deck to climb. When played correctly, this deck only has soft counters, being Sulthraze Warrior with Magtheridon, XL Shadow Priest, and the varieties of Hostage Mage. It reliably beats all other aggro decks, all non-mage reno decks, and anti-reno decks, miracle decks, and anti-aggro decks. Additionally, it usually beats 100 warrior and combo. If this deck wasn't so hard to play, it probably wouldn't have survived the first balance patch. If you'd like to learn how to play the deck, I did a guide with Schmoopiedaddy that is uploaded to his YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FL7QdqYTxeg

Reno Tick Tock Warlock - This deck is the biggest gatekeeper in the format due to how polarising its favourable matchups are and the fact it has the highest playrate in high legend. When played well, it is a tier 1 deck as it is able to consistently climb the ladder no matter the pocket. Most decks can't play with an empty hand on turn 6, and most aggro decks can't muscle through a good player using their board clears effectively. Its bad matchups comprise of Token QLDH, its very hard to clear the board and disrupt the aranna combo simultaneously, fast combo decks that win before turn 6, and reno druid which is able to play through getting its hand discarded. Between Tick Tock and QLDH, Reno has pretty much been killed off from high legend, with the exception of Reno Druid, and while these decks exist in their current state, Reno will be completely unviable at high legend.

Discard Warlock - The premier aggro deck of the format. When everyone is playing its counters suboptimally and less frequently. it gets a lot of breathing room and this lets it take over the legend climb. At high legend, the incredibly difficult matchups against Token QLDH and Tick Tock keep it down, but this doesn't hold true for most of the player base. It also feasts on the playrate of decks like Libram Paladin, Imbue Mage, and insert homebrew deck here, which make it much more powerful at lower mmr brackets. Play discard warlock for a quick easy climb to legend.

CTA Paladin - The name is a bit of a misnomer, don't keep Call to Arms in the mulligan. Boogie Down Paladin is the second best aggro deck in the format. The main reason to play it is that you beat discard warlock as a result of showdown beam, however you are a little bit slower so you've got a flatter matchup spread into the wider field. On the subject of the Flight Maneouvres nerf, don't cut the card, it's still a 2 of. Play CTA paladin if you want a quick easy climb and don't want to play discard warlock or if you falsely believe playing warlock makes you an immoral human.

Libram Paladin - The ultimate killer of bad decks and good decks played poorly. The deck pretty much only exists in the diamond to legend climb for this very reason. Once you get to legend, aggro is played too well for you to consistently get off the board, combo played properly kills you before you get your stats down, reno your natural prey doesn't exist because of tick tock, and you can't beat qldh and other miracle decks. Before you get to top legend, qldh pilots playing poorly spoon feed you victories, aggro decks played poorly give you time to execute your gameplan and swing back, and people actually play reno decks or other janky homebrews which can't answer libram boards. Overall this cumulates this deck being tier 1 for the average player, and completely unplayable if you're trying to climb in high legend.

Seedlock - Seedlock is the only high skill cap deck we see at tier 1 in the legend climb. This is solely due to how favourable the meta is for it. It exists simultaneously as an anti-aggro deck, and an anti-reno deck, and this makes it incredibly powerful when the playrate of aggro and slower decks are much higher. Even though the deck scales very well with player skill, the meta becomes much more hostile in high legend with increased combo, and questline dh players no longer throwing, bumping it down to tier 3. Play Seedlock if you like playing giants and controlling aggro for a quick and easy climb to legend. Just accept you will lose to combo and don't run rats.

Decks that are good in the climb and terrible at high ranks

There exist a lot of decks that have noticeable performance drop offs when competing in an optimised environment. The poster child for this is libram paladin which gets notably worse as outlined above.

When we look at tiers 2 and 3 of the climb, there is a common thread between the decks that exhibit a noticeable drop off. They take linear setups over 4 or more turns of the game for tempo swings that don't strictly end the game. The important thread here is 4 or more turns required to set up. When everyone is playing good decks, and play them faster, if your deck doesn't have a linear setup, the setup scales with player skill. Demon hunters more consistently brute on turns 3 and 4, discard warlocks more frequently have a full board of 3/3's on turn 2, tick tock is more consistently removing your hand on 6. On the other hand, the rate at which imbue mage plays its river crocolisks and libram paladin plays its post-nerf fiery war axe don't scale with player skill. The net result is that Big Shaman, Libram Paladin, Imbue Mage become completely unplayable at high ranks. Some of these decks have the ability to contest early boards, but their slow ramp up results in them losing to faster gameplans. Seedlock, Questline Hunter, and the new Lost City Quest Priest are the examples here.

There's also some decks that exist with win conditions that are a bit more along the gotcha line and require the opponent to be unaware of how to play around it. Imbue Mage is the obvious example here, punishing people who don't end the game by turn 7 against a deck that does very little, or relying on win conditions that play into the reckless combo. Pirate Rogue is a subtle example, as the deck is inherently weaker on the tempo than most aggro decks, but has 30+ damage burst combos from hand. Experienced players are able to bully the deck on the basis that its a bit slower so that it never has the space to go for the huge burst combos that carry it at lower ranks.

Where did Reno go in High Legend?

In case you missed it earlier in the post, Reno is single handedly kept out of high legend by Tick Tock. Every Reno deck has the same matchup spread as Tick Tock, but instantly loses to Tick Tock so there's no reason to play it. Reno decks wholistically have favourable matchups into aggro and are unfavoured into decks like Token QLDH and Boarloack, but theres no reason to play them with Renolock running around.

Nafain has a different perspective on the matter however, so to quote Nafain:

I wouldn't say that Renolock is pushing all the other Reno decks out. They dropped off hard with the nerf of Elise. The meta isn't about value and grinding out long games. Reno Hunter died with Elise. Reno Shaman got worse. Reno Priest got worse. These decks were barely above 50% winrate and lost one of their best cards. Reno Warrior is just worse Warrior. Renolock kinda got put on the map at the end of March, and people started picking it up in April. If Renolock got nuked next week, you would not get variety in Reno decks. You'd just get an uptick in Warrior decks. They are effectively the same thing but have better finishers.

Prior to writing this post, the Elise nerf was largely something I'd overlooked, however I think the sentiment from both of us still holds true.

Decks that improve in High Legend

The main decks that get better in high legend are the decks that scale positively with player skill, and also enjoy the lower play rate of aggro as a natural consequence. Aggro does exist at high legend, but it exists at a lower play rate due to people playing decks like Tick Tock and QLDH which farm aggro when played correctly.

The prime example of a deck which scales with player skill and enjoys the matchup spread is Reno Druid. The deck is both difficult to play, loves the elevated playrate of Tick Tock, and loves the decreased playrate of aggro. It doesn't really love the elevated playrate of QLDH or combo, but the meta does get relatively better for it.

You also get decks like Kaelthas Druids, an umbrella term for the variety of combos that exist using Kaelthas in druid, theres about 25 varieties of it. Kaelthas both enjoys the decreased playrate of aggro, and also the people (KVLT, Laratt) with the skill required to consistently execute the combos are generally only found in high legend, which increases the tiering.

u/Filtrophobe — 3 days ago

Put forth your favourite deck to be reinvented

Hello all!

Want to see a deck reach top legend? Missing an archetype that’s fallen out of the meta? Want to see something get represented?

I’m here to give everyone a chance!

As the individual who reached high legend with Big DH over a year ago, I want to hear what people in this community want to see.

I will build a deck to bring the most popular idea you have to life, and reach high legend with it. Doesn’t matter how terrible the idea is, it will be achieved.

Look forward to requests!

u/EvolvedSplicer68 — 3 days ago

Crybabies who want to nerf imbue mage

Love these people here writing manifestos how imbue mage is the issue when its such a trash wild deck :D
I guess most of you are hardstuck in silver or gold cuz in legend/diamond imbue mage has zero viability and 0% winrate unless his opponent has a disconnect internet issue
can we please not balance the game around silver and gold trash?
funny how all of you also keep claiming how you are so good at the game and hit top legend every season and yet you have no idea about rogue otk, big shaman, boarlock, discolock and any other ACTUAL META decks in wild lmao
lets not nerf disco lock or rogue otk who won on turn 3, lets nerf imbue mage with his 1% winrate chance in the meta XDDDDDD

but yeah keep crying to devs about imbue mage that cant win unless his opponent is afk for 10 turns
what a joke

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▲ 0 r/wildhearthstone+1 crossposts

"Discard" ought to be a keyword of it's own.

"Discard" is often used in Warlock decks.

It's used to massively mana-cheat things onto the battlefield without any penalties.

That doesn't seem very balanced nor fair. Why should Warlock be allowed to completely disregard the mana system without a downside?

Mechanics like this is why the concede rate vs Warlock is currently too high.

I suggest, making "Discard" into a keyword, then revamp all cards to utilize it.

The discard keyword will behave like regular discard mechanics, but with an added drawback: the player discarding the card loses MAX HEALTH equal to the mana cost of the card being discarded.

That would balance out the unfair advantage by reducing the opponent's overall health, to which cannot be healed back for zero mana.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

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u/BitBucket404 — 3 days ago

Keep or Dust?

Is this card playable in wild? I am a standard player so I am not sure about the current wild meta and wanna know if this card is worth keeping. Thank you in advance!

u/eatd4b1an — 3 days ago

Need anti boar mage list. Do not care if it makes me lose to everything else.

I want to make boar players lose 100%, or as close as possible, something to ruin their deck as much as i can, with NO win condition of my own exactly, just me making them need to play vs some horsehockey, i used to play a long time ago, and lack most new cards, i crafted new staples, but i do not have time to look into all the cards ive missed.

Any mage list capable of raw-dogging boar, please share list.

reddit.com
u/norootjustgrow — 2 days ago

Quasar Rogue is Fair and Interactive: Turn 3 OTK

With near-perfect mulligan and draws, a turn 2 OTK is also possible:

Turn 0: Go second

Turn 1: Triple coin + Naga + Quasar

Turn 2: Get lucky with draws and OTK your opponent

u/etorraG — 6 days ago

This miracle rogue list?

Anyone familiar with the game plan of this list? ETC is running
# 1x (3) Ashen Elemental
# 1x (3) Rumble Enthusiast
# 1x (2) Tidepool Pupil

u/asdqweasdqwaxzc — 3 hours ago

What should i change in my deck to make it better

its a imps deck with life steal and fragile damage i am new to the game and just starting to make my own deck

### IMPS

# Class: Warlock

# Format: Wild

#

# 2x (0) Desk Imp

# 1x (1) Chaotic Consumption

# 2x (1) Flustered Librarian

# 1x (1) Mortal Coil

# 1x (1) Wicked Shipment

# 2x (2) Baritone Imp

# 2x (2) Crescendo

# 2x (2) Drain Soul

# 2x (2) Impending Catastrophe

# 2x (2) Imployee of the Month

# 2x (2) Malchezaar's Imp

# 2x (2) Nofin's Imp-ossible

# 1x (2) Thornveil Tentacle

# 1x (2) Vile Library

# 1x (3) Drain Life

# 2x (3) Fiddlefire Imp

# 2x (4) Crazed Conductor

# 2x (4) Mischievous Imp

#

AAEBAf0GBpcHxYAEsZ8Eq+oE9fgF7v0FDLy2As/RA+egBP/ZBIDaBIHaBMOkBcfCBcjCBd3CBYTlBanhBgAA

#

# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

u/BOBhake — 1 day ago

Edwin, Defias Kingpin to Rank 50

Of course, with Quasar.

It's probably not the most optimal Quasar list (only if Edwin was 3 mana), but I think it's the only archetype that can make use of Edwin competitively.

Win-con: Play Quasar, draw through your entire deck and deal 48 damage with +4 spell damage and 2x Garrote. Or build a +12/12 Edwin around turn 5.

This list might require more APM than the others. If you're having trouble, I suggest a list without Edwin and with Dubious Purchase. In most of my games, Edwin averages around 3 draws. I choose to play Edwin because he can be tutored with Raiding Party. Also, I love the animations and sound effects of Edwin. It reminds me of the good old days of playing miracle rogue.

Disclaimer: The Quasar archetype relies heavily on luck. It has almost no board control and is very vulnerable to disruption. I don't recommend it if you want to climb high legend.

Some tips: Play all your coins and preparations in your hand before using Quasar, as they will be useless to draw later.

If you draw Quasar from Cultist Map and play it, you'll draw the second option after your hand gets shuffled into your deck. It's incredibly advantageous. There's even a theoretical OTK on turn 1 (going second), though it requires perfect draws and luck: Play 3x Coin + Preparation + Cultist Map (Get Quasar and something useful offered), play Swiftscale Trickster + Quasar, choose the second option from the Cultist Map, and with your lucky draws, execute the combo within the 45 second timer of Turn 1.

If your opponent only has 30 health points and no armor, don't hesitate to play an Ethereal Oracle as a draw engine. Even with +3 spell damage you can deal 40 damage.

### Edwin Quasar

# Class: Rogue

# Format: Wild

#

# 2x (0) Counterfeit Coin

# 2x (0) Preparation

# 1x (1) Deafen

# 1x (1) Dig for Treasure

# 1x (1) Gear Shift

# 2x (1) Gone Fishin'

# 2x (2) Cultist Map

# 2x (2) Garrote

# 2x (2) Quick Pick

# 2x (2) Swindle

# 2x (3) Ethereal Oracle

# 2x (3) Knickknack Shack

# 2x (3) Mic Drop

# 1x (3) Raiding Party

# 1x (3) Street Trickster

# 1x (4) Edwin, Defias Kingpin

# 2x (4) Swiftscale Trickster

# 2x (8) Quasar

#

AAEBAcKPBAbVjAPtgAS/9wXJgAatpwbIwAYM9bsC590DjvQD958Et7ME1bYE2sMF7p4G8skG8ucG5OoGwZcHAAA=

#

# To use this deck, copy it to your clipboard and create a new deck in Hearthstone

u/etorraG — 2 days ago

I have recreated an idea that always seemed fun in my head

https://preview.redd.it/4c21iy4j4x0h1.png?width=251&format=png&auto=webp&s=57bb61fab4b37d5ee4e4346411a4d472d5ef58ec

and today I ran into some decks with the same idea so I re created it. What do you rate the deck? is it bad/good? it counters equilibrium, boars and quasar althou I have won with it against hostage mage, discolock and questlock by being very lucky and never allowing them to reach 4 mana. The main idea is to be as annoying for our opponent as possible with the spell tax and the mana reseting with revenant rascal (wich has always been one of my favourite cards I just didn't know how to use him). What do you rate the deck?

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u/Safe_Appointment_260 — 8 hours ago

The easiest way to convey wild nerfs is to spam meta decks in this week brawl

Stealth for a turn? Cool gimmick! Wait, why I am dead by turn 3?

reddit.com
u/Rafaam707 — 4 hours ago