r/teslore

I’m not new to the Elder Scrolls lore by any means, but I it’s the religious aspect which is so interesting to me, yet also so confusing.

My question regards the characterisation of the eight (or nine) divines, alongside other interpretations and pantheons.

Is there a reason the majority of pantheons have very similar gods? Is there proof of a “time god being”, which is adapted into Akatosh, Auri-El, Alduin etc.

Obviously, Daedric princes are a lot more active and personable, often appearing as visable humanoid and sentient creatures, so the debate for these is lesser. But the divines aren’t present.

How was Man and Mer made aware of these eight-ish divine characters, or is it all speculation?

So I had a theory about how the vestiges story could come to a "end".

I theorize that the sky shards that can summon or hold the vestige to nirn either become rarer or disappear( because gameplay wise they arent in skyrim or oblivion)this leads to the vestige "respawning" in oblivion. As their original body is gone and their current one is most likely made like daedra. So if they lose the ability to connect to nirn and are in oblivion the dragonfire prevents them from coming through at least easily.

What are y'all thoughts on this theory?And what do y'all think happened to the vestige?I think my theory feeds that kind of bittersweetness that the other protagonist's have , like hero of kavatch sheogorath and neravarine being immortal. It also leaves room for personal touches ln what happens to YOUR vestige. Like what does yours do in oblivion?

In the Shivering Isles, the invasion of Order happens through very characteristic Order Crystals. Jyggalag and Sheogorath parallel aspects of Anu and Padomay (order, perfection) vs Change and Permanence. Yet Sheogorath 'disappears'/transforms.

Well, in Xedillian, the Grummites take possession of power sources of the "Resonator of Judgement" which is part of Xedillian and treat it as a religious object.

What do the Power Sources and the Resonator of Judgement look like? Order Crystals. The ones you destroy by inserting a Heart into them (a call back to Lorkhan and his heart).

After you fix that, you have a quest - adventurers are driven in. Either drive them mad and accept them into the isles (mania) or harm them physically (dementia). Afterwards, the forces of Order barge in and you have to defeat them - they are YOUR test, representing the conflict with the Hero, his test, embodying Anu and foretelling the conversion of Sheogorath to Jyggalag (which is a major mystery in and of itself). Either you win (become Madgod) or they kill you.

Throughout my analysis of TES, the focus of CHIM, truth and eternity was always on the side of Daedra while the Aedra were always the victims, cast out due to inferiority. BUT I think that the Xedilian quest highlights what Anu is meant to be in the games explicitly in a way that properly parallels Padomay. That is - Anu is EXPLICITLY Judgement and 'the antagonist'. The padomaic forces that initially defeat Anu are Daedra - immortal, with Lorkhan the disappearing one embodying the nature of bringing others up to divinity (like Sheogorath). The very Anu-Padomay myth isn't just embodying the natures of Anu and Padomaic force separately, but also Anu's role in the whole thing - Judgement, by virtue of their defeat. Lorkhan 'defeats' them and becomes a secret God that people embody to attain Divinity. Similarly, Lorkhan did not only make himself a God, his actions made the Daedric princes into Gods by having them embody different archetypes - echoing Lorkhans ability to grant others Divinity (for example, the House of Troubles of the Dunmer all embody the process of attaining CHIM in different ways).

Similarly, in the Shivering Isles, the new Sheogorath defeats the forces of Order (the previous Sheogorath) and becomes ironically Sheogorath (echoing the process by which Lorkhan uses his 'defeating of the Anuic' to become a God), the Madgod who can clearly grant other people Divinity by letting them become him.

Anu is "Judgement". To see if someone is worthy and to raise them to Apotheosis if they are. This fits the Kabbalah and Abrahamic parallel closer as that is what Anu normally represents, but also it explains why Talos/Lorkhan and the nature of Apotheosis and reaching CHIM is so important to the settings Anuic pantheon (which are Anu-Padomaic in the Anu/Padomaic world). The Anuic are the 'Antagonist' and the 'Judgement' meant to be overcome.

A common paralel/motif in the Heroes journey is slaying the Dragon to complete the Hero's journey and come out above. But in TES, the literal and metaphoric 'Dragon' is in the realm of Anu - and a common motif of the Aedric pantheon is either 'slaying' or 'taming' or 'breaking' the Dragon.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fsteamuserimages-a.akamaihd.net%2Fugc%2F612773448380637070%2F2EBC9232BC39281D716595BDBFE6550A0961E6C5%2F&f=1&nofb=1&ipt=aa6fbf4cc2132d276e02e4cc6df21f5fd653fdd6aafa7e95b1bc935032b830f6

PS Don't believe Vivec's lies.

Akatosh is the human understanding of Auri-El, who is the chief deity of the Altmer pantheon and an important deity in most others, and the first ancestor from which they trace their lineage.

Must've stung when he sided with the Alessia's rebellion, or when Talos conquered Alinor under Akatosh's banner.

tl;dr ahead of time: the Aedra didn't "become" weaker - rather their temporal and non-Padomaic (Daedra embody Change and Eternity/Permanence) nature is being tested (time - which is their Anuic nature conflicting with itself, ergo Dragon Breaks etc - showcasing their weaknesses) so they can achieve 'higher being', and only their version of the narrative implies that they were 'weakened' as that one is 'temporal'. In the Daedric version, the Anu are weak and dependent on stasis while assuming 'perfection', and time 'entraps them and shows them their weakness' - they get lost in Madness (Akatosh representing the Anuic-Through-Time is said to share in on Lorkhan ergo Sheogoraths madness). In other words, the Anu are exhaustible and only do well if they can indefinitely prepare, but the more the stability of that which they 'prepared' is tested, the more it falls apart (which is manifest as the 'present' relative to 'history'). The Daedra are 'inexhaustible' 'eternal' and 'infinitely flexible' and because of that, embody the principle of metaphysical 'Buddhahood'. This is why the Daedra can easily be their own realm, while the Aedra (who may collectively be trying to 'embody' Lorkhan) who are many make up 'one' realm (some equate it as 'Lorkhans realm' - a motif visually paralleled by the Amulet of Kings 'red Jewel sorrouned by 8 small jewels') and do so with great difficulty.

...A common myth about Lorkhan, from the orthodoxy of the exoteric view is that

>Lorkhan "tricked" the Anuic soon-to-be-Daedra into creating Mundus, weakening them and binding them to it.

But this is only one side of the story. On the flip side, the Daedra version of this myth implies

>The Padomaic Daedric Princes (who embody Change and Permanency and are CHIM aka Royalty) "forced" the Anuic that assumed they were perfect "Jyggalag" into Sheogorath (who is an archetype of Lorkhanic transformation into a Daedric Prince). This way, Jyggalag was constantly aware of his flaws as Sheogorath, and the madness (which Akatosh aka the Aedra of time shares in, embodying its scope on Nirn) as it contradicted him - thus creating one of the Lorkhanic archetypes by which the Dreamer self-reflects.

A nice callback to the ideas of 'madness' and open-mindedness, a very common historic trope in Initiatory and Mystical rites. Obviously this starts with 'reluctance' due to the 'shame' of what they had witnessed, but with the moving of the Anuic pantheon to the Eight (and then Nine) they seem to become more capable of managing and accepting of the Padomaic aspect. With Arden Sul variant stories implying notions like

>Arden Sul was so happy and blissful of Mania that his heart exploded after he did Greenmote

or

>Arden Sul plucked out his heart to discover he was his own traitor, destined to take his own life

The Aedra are often considered the weaker and loftier of the Gods who are 'dependent' on Mundus. The Daedra on the other hand are the more distant, yet powerful Gods who are self sufficient, complete, Royal Princes. If you've been reading my other posts on the topic of Anu and Padomay, this should all resonate.

But the notion of this topic is the idea that the 'history' of the Aedra is from the 'Aedra' centered perspective. But that is because the Aedra embody cosmic consistency, order and stasis (and Judgement). Instead:

>The Aedra assumed they were 'perfect' and that Lorkhan tricked them. Instead, as Lorkhan brought them into Mundus to show them their own reflection, they realized just how imperfect their stasis was and began their journey towards CHIM (as being Anu-Padomaic entities at that point)

>the Aedras cognitive dissonance on the nature of their own inferiority is present itself through the history of the many interpretations of the Gods themselves, and the reason they're seemingly 'stuck' is that some of those interpretations of the self-conflicting Aedra keep them in there? Think back to 'Madness' and the head with many faces.

In other words, the Aedra are weak and doing their best, and just failing miserably, ergo why they're 'trapped'. They basically got fumbled into a cosmic egg by the Daedra so that they can grow and become more powerful to eventually become pure Padomaic entities. This 'literary egg' motif is often used for Mundus and the nature of its growth through overcoming (in part, it is a motif for Oblivion when Mehrunes Dagon threatens Mundus with a 'reset' until Mundus learns to fend for itself)

And with the inrepretation of Arden-Sul:

>The Anuic pre-Aedra had the Lorkhanic aspect thrust upon them (Anu-Padomaic self reflection and initiation) which in their confusion made them realize their imperfection and converted them into Anu-Padomaic

In this view, the Heart of Lorkhan symbolizes some kind of 'learning toy' meant for self reflection for the 'baby' Aedra Gods, and with things like the disappearance of the Heart being a tantrum of the Aedra or possibly the shame of self reflection. With the Amulet of Kings and Alduin (who was meant to end the world) it seems the implication is some sort of 'test' that Mundus is passing by 'solving its own weaknesses and external dependencies' becoming 'inherently more powerful'. It's possible that Hearts embody purpose and stability, but it is currently hard to see as to what it might exactly imply.

In fact, Dagons realm of 'restarting' and 'infinite possible RE-Begginings' is something only Padomaic nature could manifest, and would be impossible with the Anuic - ergo he makes a great 'antagonist'

In other words, the Aedra didn't "become" weaker - rather the temporal and non-Padomaic (Daedra embody Change and Eternity/Permanence) nature they have is also being tested (and the illusion of time makes them seem weaker), and only their version of the narrative implies that they were 'weakened' as that one is 'temporal'. One could relate this to the question of Talos in Skyrim - why is the Dominion trying to push him out, what is it's implication on Talos' divinity etc. Essentially, transcending its own crutches or something?

This also hearkens back to the notion of Dwemer building Mecha-Gods (ANUmidium) who instead end up making them disappear (the Mecha Gods were shown to be easily destroyed) because those are only 'powerful' configurations, but not Padomaic nature.

In fact, Magic itself in the setting stems from the Magna-Ge, the light from the Heart of Anuic entities which are uncorrupted - echoing the notion that the Anu assumed they were stronger than they were because in a way that was unstable.

This is also the reason the Daedra embody more 'demonic' concepts - they represent the notion of 'repressed possibility' for the Dreamer which are needed for true 'infinity', while the Aedra embody safe concepts of selection.

This could also be why after the Dragon triumphs over Dagon (who could be said to embody 'indecision' of origin) in Oblivion, that the plot of Skyrim becomes killing the World Eater (and that with the disappearance of the Amulet/Septims, that Talos is being tested). Just as Mankar Cammoran temporarily wore the Amulet of Kings, so did Dagon 'temporarily' walk Mundus as if it was his own realm - only for this Archetype of Troubles to be defeated by the avatar of Akatosh. The Aedra and Mundus are being prepared for 'eternity' and 'immortality' through what is essentially a time-based 'medical cast'

The goal for the Aedra may be for them to be able to defeat their 'perfect Anuic' self with their 'Padomaic immortal' nature, similar to Sheogorath killing Sheogorath-Jyggalag in the Shivering Isles. The 'Jyggalag' in this case is the Thalmor, and the Sheogorath is Talos in Skyrim.

So we all know tower theory, Thalmor are attempting to disable all the towers.
However, all towers are created by Elves or Et' Ada.

Thalmor hold their own beliefs, but elven myth hold mortality as a curse and recognises ancestory to the Et'Ada. If the towers further imprison Elves, why did they create most of them? Why is it Elven structures in particular? What makes a "tower" a Tower?

Simply put, I had a Debate with someone about TES and powers scaling and all that jargan.

I want opinions on this debate, simply because A lot of what he said doesnt match up properly.

I know TES Lore is vast, and complex. I just need some help.

I especially want to talk about "peaceful/herbivorous" animals such as sheep, cows, deer, etc... what do they become when they die?

They seem to be up pretty damn high but if they're as high up as they seem to be, they wouldn't possibly be surviving very well - above a certain altitude your body starts dying very slowly from lack of oxygen.

And yet, IIRC the Throat of the World is the second highest peak in all of Tamriel. Either Tamriel's mountains in general aren't very high or there's some weird stuff going on up there.

(I know the real answer is that the game devs who made the lore know nothing about high altitude living, but go with me here, let's pretend they knew what they were doing here.)

Alcohol of the Bosmer

By Blasius Fulvius and Drusilla Regula

Anvil Cultural Society

When one thinks of the Bosmer, the first thought among many is their uniquely jovial nature. Bosmer humour often trends on the absurd. In spite of their blank faces, they betray their deeply sentimental nature with their emotional voices and wild hand motions. However, while both men and the other varieties of mer are commonly seen acting as such only with a drink in hand and five more already in them, the Bosmer are an incredibly sober people. One might think this is out of a lack of need – they are already inebriated by life. The reality is that they abstain from drinking due to the Green Pact, a religious doctrine which states they are unable to consume any plant matter out of respect for their god Y’ffre. However, they have gotten around this restriction in their native Valenwood by manner of relying on non-plant-based alcoholic beverages, of which there are two major examples.

Jagga

Jagga is a pungent drink crafted from the milk of boars deep within the forests of Valenwood. It is said that Bosmer hunters search for mother boars leading their young, then ambush them from the tree tops. The sow and piglets are captured alive and returned, with pride, to the village by the hunting group. The mother is kept within a dark tent with other sows and small, piglet-shaped leather dolls, kept alive with generous meals and utilized solely for their milk. The children are kept in pens outside and fed a unique mixture of fat, crushed insects, calcified bones, and sap. 

Depending on the manner in which it was brewed, jagga can vary in color from a stark white to a deep clear brown, not dissimilar to an ale. Woe be the person who mistakes jagga for ale, for the cheese-tasting drinking coats the mouth and throat in a fatty film, and as the fermented liquid enters the stomach it almost immediately results in instant stomach aches and vomiting. Anvil sailors who commonly travel between Cyrodiil and Falinesti take pride in drinking the exotic drink, and its acquired taste can act as a motivator for these sailors to pursue trips to Valenwood. Altmeri sailors, meanwhile, are less open about their consumption of jagga, both out of cultural pride and legal reasons. Since the Second Aldmeri Dominion, the drinking of jagga specifically by Altmeri sailors was forbidden for it “may cloud the mine and enfeeble the connection to our ancestors” (Alinor Maritime Codex for Commercial Sailing, Plaudius translation). In Valenwood, the drinking of jagga is equal parts ceremonial and recreational. Giant clay pots are shared among tribes, both during times of peace and war, and the beverage acts as a way for suitors to learn about potential marriage candidates and warriors to better know the enemy they will soon battle. It is impossible to refuse an invitation to drink jagga for the Bosmer, and even the most metropolitan Wood Elves have memories of being forced to drink the alcohol at family gatherings.

The container it is poured into is almost as important as the drink itself. Large clay pots with intricate designs are the common method of storage for fermentation, and it is often surrounded by small clay bowls which are used to retrieve jagga for drinking. Bird bones fitted with skin filters are utilized as straws, and each member of a Bosmer family is given their own straw after their final weaning. Many Bosmer also carry jagga on their person through a variety of different containers. Animal bladders, especially pig bladders, are slung over the shoulder with sinew straps and drank throughout the day. In the larger cities of Valenwood (and in the Bosmer Quarter of Anvil), jagga vendors carry large leather baskets filled with bladders and sell them. Jagga kidneys are valued for the unique, salty taste they give to the stored liquid. Jagga hearts are commonly carried by the wealthier Bosmer, and the different compartments are filled with differently flavoured variants of the drink. In two sips, a Bosmer noble can taste a spicy ant-flavoured jagga and a sweet honeyed jagga, all while walking from his manor to his place of work. The jagga heart is the subject of a popular Bosmeri folktale, with two opposing nobles sharing a drink only for one to wind up dead after imbibing poison contained in one of the ventricles. 

Rotmeth

While jagga, due to its less strict trading restrictions, is the most commonly known Bosmeri alcohol to outsiders, the most popular alcoholic beverage in Valenwood is rotmeth. Jagga is the higher-class cousin of rotmeth, and is the brandy or wine to rotmeth’s ale. Rotmeth is made from rotting meat, and is nonspecific in the source of meat as the true flavor comes from the maggots which infest the foul ingredient. Rotmeth is first prepared by placing a large amount of meat into a clay pot fitted with small holes in the lid. Honey is poured over the meat and on the surface of the lid as to draw flies. Over the next few weeks, the meat is pounded and stirred until it is a consistent slurry filled with writhing maggots. Once this occurs, the mixture is poured into a new clay vat, and sealed for a week. At this point before sealing, some brewers add in a disinfecting concoction of antivenom to neutralize any potential disease, however this is often only for batches designed for tourists. After the week has passed, the vat is placed over a fat-fire and boiled until the lid pops off, at which point the meat and maggot film is skimmed off to be used as food flavouring and the reddish-brown liquid is sealed for another few weeks until fully matured. 

The resulting concoction is an acrid, sour, and somewhat spicy alcoholic beverage with slight hallucinogenic properties when drunk in large amounts. Even the Bosmer, who are known for the resistance to foul odours and tastes, can react quite viscerally when drinking rotmeth. The “rotmeth hurls” is the event which marks the beginning of any Bosmeri party, and this malady is only alleviated by drinking more rotmeth. Nose clamps and extra dollops of honey are given to young Bosmer drinking rotmeth, however adults are forced to tough out its pungent flavor. The revolting nature of the beverage does not hamper its popularity in Valenwood, and virtually every establishment where drinks are sold has their own rotmeth supplier or brewery out back. The hallucinogenic effects of rotmeth is the most likely reason it is drunk in such large quantities across the province. Rotmeth is described as making the legs feel weightless and the head heavy, and the vision bob up and down like an acorn babbling brook. Drinkers can feel invisible maggots swirl around inside their braincase, and many of them cite seeing the ground, plants, and sky swirl into one writhing, dancing mass. Outside observers can see rotmeth drunks twirl carelessly in the streets. Meanwhile, those inebriated on rotmeth also experience red swollen faces, watery eyes, and chronic sneezing – about all of which the drinker is unaware. 

The containers used for rotmeth are far less creative than those used for jagga. Bug shells are filled with the liquid and handed out to patrons both at bars and on the street. Outdoor vendors drag around giant stitched-together bladders covered in leather and fill the shell-cups via a spigot in the bladder, having to change their prices based on the size of the shell used. This is the source of many arguments on the streets of Valenwood’s cities. Every New Life, the more upstanding vendors will bring their bladders to their usual spot and remove the spigot, then jump on the top of the bladder while calling for nearby vagrants to get their fill from the strong stream of rotmeth spraying wildly. 

Other Beverages

While jagga and rotmeth are the most commonly known types of beverage, cities and tribes throughout Valenwood have their own solution to the Green Pact alcohol dilemma. Common concoctions are honey wines, thick drinks made from fermented bug paste, snake venom liquors, and the chilled blood of dead drunks (often those who died from drinking bad rotmeth, their blood is drunk in honor of the deceased). A drink unique to the jungle west of Silvenor is known as gura, made from the liquified brains of the shaking fowl native to the region. Once consumed, this alcohol causes the drinker to have bouts of hallucinogenic fits once every few months for the rest of their life. Gura is consumed in the tribes of this region as a coming-of-age ritual, and represents giving oneself to Y’ffre wholly. The end of a gura-drinker’s life is marked by a vivid hallucination and intense spasming, with their own brain liquefying and sloughing out their nose and mouth. The tribes see this as the individual “returning to the Ooze.” 

The existence of these many grotesque drinks shows that despite the many geographic and cultural adversities people are faced with, they will swiftly find a way to make alcohol. From the fine wines of High Rock to the Maormer cephalopod liquors which float to the shores of the Summerset Isle, there is but one constant which unites the races of Tamriel: booze. One can only imagine the other devilish concoctions that might be made within the most inhospitable reaches of our fair continent.

The eternal heated debate continues about the outcome of the war with the Argonians. Because of the thief Delvin's remark:

Delvin: "Puttin' together another shipment from Morrowind, Vekel. Lookin' for anythin' special?" Vekel the Man: "Well, if some Moon Sugar should fall into your lap..." Delvin: "Maybe. That stuff's gettin' tough to bring across the border with all the Argonian patrols."

Many believe that the Argonians hold the southern part of the Dunmer territories, although the same Dreyla only talks about clans on the borders with Black Marsh, and I won’t even mention Adril’s speech.

After all, we have a *East Empire Shipping Map with the same boundaries. Perhaps the writers left more precise statements about the boundaries somewhere?

From House of the Big Walker. Seems like it is a character we already know under a new name. The "Dragon-in-Flesh" is clearly the Dragonborn emperor, but I'm not sure who Dalk is supposed to be. "Dalk" means knife in Nordic apparently, according to the Greg Keyes novels, but that may be a coincidence.

If the princes are also their realms in oblivion, they are part of the wheel. Would they then be unable to, metaphorically,go outside the wheel to turn it on its side to see the 'I'? Do they have a definitive sense of self? Would they zero sum if they learnt the truth?

I know Molag baal helped Vivec learn the secret syllable but I read that as him providing a piece of the puzzle for chim rather than baal flat out telling them and going 'btw this whole thing is a dream lol.'

how common is it for the people of tamriel to see other planes of existence? id imagine that with the magical community having become significantly smaller and more divided after the disbandment of the mages guild and the liminal barrier having been enthickened (is that a word?) after martin's sacrifice, in the fourth era travelling the planes would be way less common than for example in the third and second eras. do we know a rough percentage of how much of the population has been to oblivion? or even aetherius? or the void?

Title. I'm curious to know whether there is a hard distinction between Aedra and Daedra, or whether some deities like Meridia or Peryite could reasonably be considered to be as morally gray as say Julianos.

For example, in Hinduism, Shiva is a deity of destruction but this is interpreted as part of a balance of life and death, and not considered really negative as it's part of a natural cycle of renewal. Could some Daedra be viewed in a similar light?

Would they be respected by the altmer for staying close to their roots? (I meant would the velothi or ashlanders, not and. Like which would be liked more)

One of my favorite things to do in Skyrim is loot all the Dwemer scrap and treasures to melt down into Dwemer metal. I don’t actually do anything with it, I just do it for roleplay because I felt that could be an actual occupation in Tamriel. Which made me think, is it? Has there ever been some guy who instead of starting a mine, occupied a ruin and stripped all the pipes from the walls like a crackhead to sell? And with Dwemer metal’s recipe being lost, won’t it eventually run out?

In this post, I will briefly review my personal(and mostly true/fanon)model of the Creation of the Aurbis and its various subgradients

Here is the Flowering Scheme of Our Aurbis

*Void was split by AE, which created Anu and Padomay*

*Aurbis(Nir) is an echo of the Void from within all AE as the relative limits of Anu and Padomay*

*The Birth of the Egg, Naught to Pattern*

*Aetherius is an Echo of AE from within Aurbis, as time arises in counterbalance to non-existence within Aurbis*

*From Egg to Image, Pure Possibility to Maintainence by Time*

*Oblivion arises as the relative limit of all of Aetherius, a great shore that the density of pure magic snapped apart through. Limitations and Infinities converged through necessity. It is at this Subgradient that the Machinations of Lorkhan become apparent, as his brother at the Genesis of Aether drowned him out in the excess of its Light, as the light reaches its terminus, space has room to room breathe new worlds. From Tall Papa to Sep*

Image to Man, creation to destruction

*Oblivion was censured through the revelations and whims brought about by Lorkhan, something was happening, a peculiar arrival of New Aetheric Excess as the planets crystallized in the space gestating the Would be Mundus.*

*This is the birth of Dawn*

*Man to God, debris of creation to the anchor of all things*

*The Gods discover a further subgradient potential, perhaps seeing erasure and fearing it, or perhaps seeing promise and bringing it about on purpose, or perhaps seeing nothing and simply hesitating. Either way, the named Aedra kill the Lorkhan, and this creates the center point of Dawn as the Adamantine slams over the shifting earth, bringing both consequence and death in the anchored abyss.*

*From God to City, Mundus to Mortal Death*

*And there is the "State Gradient", an Echo of Mundus through all of Mortal Death*

*A final extinction event that eradicates the original mundus will pass an echo of mundus through the center of the old mundus and render all of its echoes permanently immortal*

*This is City to State, Mortal Death to the New Center called Z*

*I imagine the Z is a hubspace that gets larger and larger and larger and only has Mnemoli to Orbit, it becomes filled with planets most of them identical to regular mundus, others are alien worlds that are garbled echoes of songs from before or new songs entirely*

*World without wheel, charting zero deaths and echoes singing*