r/publicdefenders

Minneapolis women banded together to use Tinder to honeytrap ICE agents into giving information about their hotels, raids, videos of raids, future raids, confessions of bad acts, strategies, and so on. Those men couldn’t wait to betray their team to impress a woman.

A failed dem candidate, Will Stancil, stupidly gave away the operation to try to take credit for organizing it, probably to impress a woman.

The honey trappers took the compiled Tinder chats and sent them to spouses.

I am in awe of the women around me.

This is got those who need additional details:

I am working on a felony burglary case. The victim is a well known doctor in the community. He hired a locksmith to change the locks on an outdoor shed. He wasn’t home at the time, so he gave instructions to the locksmith to leave the bill and new set of keys on his kitchen counter.

When the locksmith does this, he doesn’t stop there. He claims “curiosity got the best of him” and began rummaging through the house, eventually taking several pairs of panties of the doctor’s teenage daughters (the locksmith is in his 40s). The locksmith gives a full confession to police and the act is caught on interior home surveillance cameras.

I spoke with the doctor in my office about the incident several months ago. He was furious (rightly so) and felt like good privacy had been invaded. After going over the legal particulars of the case and some coaxing, I managed to convince the doctor that a probated plea offer would be the most likely outcome. He agreed to this, provided that some conditions were met. I communicated this offer to opposing counsel at a later pre trial conference.

The locksmith’s attorney and I had a phone conversation today about the case. She relayed what she believed to be possible flaws in the investigation and doubts that could be raised at trial. She provided a misdemeanor counter offer as a way to settle the case. I told the attorney that during my prior conversation with the doctor, he wasn’t inclined to accept an offer like that. But, I told her that I would speak with him and get his thoughts on the matter. She then informed me that she had a personal relationship with the doctor and asked me to tell him if he wanted to reach out to contact her. I told her I would let him know.

About half an hour after this conversation, I get a call from defense counsel. I let the call go to voicemail, where she tells me that she herself has called the doctor and gotten him to agree to her counter offer. She also provides a text message exchange between her and presumably the evidencing the agreement. I was not a part to this call nor did I ever give permission for this to take place.

I’m not sure how to handle the situation. I feel that an ethical line has been crossed and that at the very least a conversation with defense counsel needs to be had.

An I overreacting? If not, what’s the best way to handle this?

Just want to vent about a frustration here. It's impossible to get expert witnesses for most cases. Particularly medical stuff. In my state, we need to apply for funds from a judge, have them approve it, and the expert doesn't get it up front, they have to send invoices. Got a lot of polite but firm "we require a retainer before we begin." From many of them. Which I get. That's entirely fair for them I guess.

Feels like it's a joke to say my clients get equal quality representation. The people willing to work under these conditions, at least in most of the medical field, are... Infamous.

Bright side, I have found that experts from public universities in really niche weird fields are pretty open to talking, usually just excited someone is interested in what they're studying. Thanks to the one specialist on diabetic neuropathy rehab!

I’ve got a client in custody and we’ve been waiting on a report from a specific agency. It was referred back in February and the agency has had multiple excuses for not having it. I’ve been objecting and pushing for an OSC and judge has not been happy with them but has held off.

Today they asked for more time and basically blamed the judge for not asking correctly (I’m paraphrasing and keeping it intentionally vague).

Judge blew up. It was glorious. I despise this agency. They are always late, never take accountability, and almost never approve the services they’re mandated to provide. And blame everyone else for it.

Judge tore them a new one on the record and told them if they don’t have a report next court date, they will be facing sanctions.

So satisfying. Good start to the day.

I'll cut to the chase. PD work in New York isn't paying the bills but it's the only job I've ever wanted to do.

I'm thinking I need to get a side gig but I have no talent for the usual LSAT tutoring everyone recommends. Any other recommendations? Is it absolutely insane to work at a restaurant part time while being a PD?

Any leads appreciated

I am a relatively newer court appointed attorney in a county where not much goes to trial so I’ve never had a jury trial. This summer, I will likely have two (one misdemeanor, one felony).

On the felony, I have been working in the case for about 5 months. We had a very lengthy probable cause hearing so I feel like I have a good control of the facts, the outlines of witnesses, and a good transcript to go off of. The misdemeanor I’ll have about 2 months with before trial.

So how much dedicated time should I take for trial prep? I’d like to block off some time the week before to just do trial prep if possible, but I’m not sure how much is reasonable. What would you recommend?

Hi all,

Apologies if this isn't the greatest place for this, or if there's a pinned post addressing it that I missed.

I got my Bachelor's in Political Science last year, and have been working as a paralegal at a very small personal injury firm since then. We also do civil litigation and, sometimes, criminal defense. Obviously, my goal is to go to law school. But, I'm trying to narrow in on what I actually want to do with a JD.

I'm drawn to PD work for a few reasons.

1. Though it might be naive, I'd like to try to make the world a better place in whatever way I can.
2. Since taking some courses on criminal justice/theories of punishment in undergrad, I've been very interested in prison abolition. My experiences working on criminal defense at my firm have heightened that interest. Generally, I think our prison system is repulsive and nonsensical. It seems to me that putting people in prison does little to make the world better practically, and I see essentially no moral justification for it, especially the way we do it in America.
3. I had a bit of an ... adventurous youth. Never got in serious legal trouble myself, but I've spent a great deal of time around "bad seeds," as my grandmother used to put it. I learned from those experiences that most people are just people, trying their best, and that forgiveness/understanding is one of the biggest gifts a person can be given. I'm not made uncomfortable by poverty, homelessness, drug issues, etc. I'd like to be able to help people who are facing difficult circumstances. I had a relatively privileged upbringing, and so I feel that I should try and utilize my privilege to make life a little easier for folks who have less.

So. I guess my general question is: why PD? What made you get into this work, and how do you like it? My impression is that it can be incredibly depressing, incredibly difficult and time consuming, and relatively thankless. Do you feel like you make a difference? What is satisfying about it? What's infuriating? I'll take any input whatsoever - discouragement or encouragement equally valued. Thanks in advance.

Anybody gone from prosecutor to public defender? Or somebody in your office, or know of others? How was it? Do you regret it? What are biggest differences? Something you wish you knew before switching?

I always feel like I take too much time away from other cases but not enough time researching the motion. For example, a motion to suppress fruits of a search incident to arrest where there was no PC for the arrest. And how thorough are you? I feel like the more thorough motions always lose, but the short motions win every once in awhile.

So I'm a PD in Indiana. We're going to be one of the last states to ever decriminalize or legalize marijuana.

For those of you who practice in states where it's legal, is there solid case law that eliminates the plain smell rule?

As a side note, there is legal hemp that smells identical to marijuana... to the point where dogs can't tell the difference. I would love to challenge a vehicle search on that basis, but I haven't had a client yet who was willing to be a guinea pig since the prosecutor here is pretty soft on marijuana cases.

Personally I've always thought that plain smell was crap. The odor of marijuana can linger in a vehicle eternally.

Im in a smaller rural state and our software is ancient and we are upgrading. As part of the group exploring options for our agency, I was curious what all everyone is using around the country and if there are any specific programs people are loving or hating.

We want to manage ongoing cases and files while keeping track of numbers and outcomes etc.

So far we have explored legal server and a lot of local private attorneys in these parts use Clio.

Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Keep fighting

For context, I am a 2L in a jx that allows law students to practice under attorney supervision and with client consent. I'm in a criminal defense program that works alongside the public defender (we get all our clients from them) since I intend on working for the PD.

Unlike the PD though, I have an itty-bitty caseload of 3 clients, so I figured that while I have the chance, I would pour as much love and care into each case that I can. I've been giving a quick courtesy call a few days before each court date. One of my clients absolutely loves this. They had trouble keeping track of court dates before they "hired" me, so it's been super helpful for them.

"What the hell," I thought to myself, "if it works, then it works!" Naively, I decided I would extend the option to my other clients. One declined, the second was indifferent, but the second client's first pretrial conference was pushed out so far that when it came time, I decided to call them anyway...and that was the call I had today. Mistake mistake mistake. Client was FURIOUS. Asked if I thought they were stupid, if I assumed they forgot about the date, demanded to have the whole case dismissed and expunged by the close of the pretrial conference, wanted my opinions on evidence and refused to take any plea agreement even before discussing pleas...

Suffice to say that I didn't have answers for them. Had to schedule the client for a meeting where my supervising atty will actually be present. I probably sound like a doe-eyed newbie saying so, but I do feel pretty bad because I didn't mean to offend my client. I just wanted to confirm with them the date, time, and courtroom number.

Based on the stories in this sub, as well as the PDs in my jx, I can safely assume that I will have no time to give "courtesy calls" to my clients in the future. But specifically, when it comes to clients who go on the defensive like this, what are your ways of handling it? Any tips for deescalating these kinds of calls?

I wanted to go into public defense because I love arguing against the government. But I don't like arguing with clients...I just hope that's not a dealbreaker for this career.

EDIT: Thank you all so much for the comments. After taking a bit to cool off and read through your advice, I realized that there is some more context for why I took this so personally. Before law school, I had a long series of super abusive minimum wage jobs where “the customer is always right” and my boss would literally scream across the store if we got a bad review. I know there are no performance metrics in public defense, but deep down, there’s a small part of me that fears losing my job (and my healthcare, shelter, and food) just because a “customer” is mad.

I think that’s part of the reason why I take a lot of comfort in this subreddit; just in being reminded that my future career doesn’t have to be that way. I want to grow my confidence in my own skills, both as an attorney and as a person. I don’t ever want to be afraid that one angry customer will cost me my livelihood. It sounds childish, but I really want to be as cool and unbothered as all of you fantastic folks! Thank you all for the advice. I really appreciate it. 💖

Long story short, this guy decided to go pro se to trial with me as Standby.

After every argument of his was shut down, he asked about a plea. I was appointed as actual counsel.

Now in his pre-sentence report he's claiming innocence again. I'm not going to get into the facts, but they're... how do I put this... damning.

Anyone been in this spot?

UPDATE: So, 3 weeks after pleading and 5 days before sentencing, this clown filed a pro se motion to dismiss. Since I'm his actual counsel now and not standby it's not going to be heard.

There's no actual argument in his motion... it's just a bunch of definitions (including TREASON).

Our son’s fiancée, who is planning to work as a pd eventually, graduates with her JD soon. What would be an appropriate gift from her soon to be (come December) in-laws?