r/NaturalWhetstones

Image 1 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 2 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 3 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 4 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 5 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 6 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 7 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 8 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 9 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 10 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 11 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 12 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 13 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 14 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 15 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 16 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 17 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 18 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
Image 19 — Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes
▲ 75 r/NaturalWhetstones+1 crossposts

Natural whetstone SOTC and stone finishes

I figured it's about time to show off the tools that keep my knives looking and performing well. Aside from a few bench size ones I want to eventually try, I see my future with JNATs with koppa, especially with finding underrated bargain pieces or trying out examples from mines that don't get as much attention.

I've been spending several months practicing and refining my polishing technique, so hopefully these pictures also serve as a good reference for the various finishes they put on. All finishes were done on a flattened kiridashi with slurry generated from an atoma 600.

As a caveat, every natural stone is different and getting a consistent kasumi requires more knowledge and skill than the stone itself. For those who are curious about JNATs, I strongly encourage establishing your polishing fundamentals first, before easing into koppa size stones.

The stones:

Pic 1 - Bench and koppa size stones (from left to right) - Top row

  • Natsuya
    • Large vintage piece, excellent particle uniformity, definitely on par with synthetics. Great for adding bite to an edge. Stropping on this with the Okudo shiro suita is a great way to touch up a blade and minimize the amount of steel being taken off.
  • Aka Amakusa
    • My coarsest stone in the JNAT lineup. Gorgeous torato pattern, but can get scratchy. Mainly used to establish coarse edges that take too long on the Natsuya.
  • Shiro Amakusa
    • Finer than the Amakusa or Natsuya, can clog up relatively easily. This one is considered as a Nakatoishi, however the slurry can break down to super fine particles, leaving you with a finish that Awasedo usually produce.
  • Kozaki Aoto (koppa)
    • Small but mighty - medium hard aoto that cuts rather quickly, puts on a dark kasumi
  • Kozaki Aoto (bench)
    • The koppa was so good that I wanted a bench size for sharpening. A lot of sandy inclusions when I got this one and I had to lap away 20g to clean up the sharpening face. This one is softer and cuts slightly slower than the koppa, but particle uniformity is more consistent. Easily self slurries and dishes surprisingly quick.
  • Hard/finer Aoto
    • This one performs more like an Awasedo and is in the 4/5 hardness range. Super easy to use as a harder stone for burnishing out details. It readily accepts bevels on the sharpening surface without sticking, even if I put enough pressure until my finger tips turn white.
  • Mikawa Nagura koppa
    • This one was mined in a rare strata that borders the Botan and Koma layers. As a result, it exhibits the properties of both. The finish is coarse enough to show some scratches, but also fine at the same time to reveal banding.
  • Nakayama Tomae
    • Extremely hard stone and unforgiving. I'm estimating this to be 4.5/5. Too much finger pressure and you get scratches that force you back down to Nakatoishi. Dial in the finger pressure and you're awarded with a mirror like finish.
  • Ohira Akapin
    • Gorgeous striped pattern when wet. Feels like a 3.5/5 hardness and produces a bright semi-mirror kasumi.

Pic 1 - Bench and koppa size stones (from left to right) - Bottom row

  • Ikarashi
    • Very slow without slurry. Gives similar performance to the Aizu, but a touch coarser. Sharpening face is extremely clean with excellent particle uniformity. Can basically put on a finer version of the Natsuya kasumi.
  • Aizu
    • Final Nakatoishi before jumping to Awasedo. Cuts fast without slurry and even faster with. Great as a sanity checker for flat bevels. You can realistically stop at this stone for edges.
  • Hideriyama Shiro Suita
    • Finishing stone for most of my knives. As a polisher, requires precise slurry management to get a non scratchy kasumi.
  • Okudo Shiro Suita
    • Not for beginners. Extremely hard stone and cuts quickly without slurry. The generated swarf is completely black. Can put on the finest yet toothy edge on a blade with proper technique. Usually reserved for my single bevels or anything that I need maximum sharpness for. Will not self slurry and tends to mirror polish. Like the fine Aoto, it readily accepts bevels without sticking. Lives up to the name of King of Suita.
  • Tsushima
    • This one is an older piece that is harder and finer than the newer stones that are mined. As a polisher, puts on a bright kasumi that reveals banding. It is extremely competent as a finishing or pre-finishing stone
  • Mizukihara Uchigumori
    • Great bench stone for putting on a final finish. Rated as a 3.5/5 by Maxim at JNS. Stone is pretty forgiving of bevel geometry and finger pressure, but can release larger particles that scratch up the surface ocasionally.
  • Hideriyama Tomae
    • Extremely soft, coarser Awasedo that loves to generate mud. Budget friendly option for high contrast kasumi on both iron and stainlesss cladding. I used this to refinish a Kikuchiyo x Izo and the kasumi matched the OG finish.
  • Aiwatani Kita
    • Similar hardness to the Ohira, but a lot more difficult to use. Rated as a 3.5/5 hardness by Maxim at JNS. Blade tends to stick with the generated slurry. Produces a darker, semi-mirror kasumi.

Pic 2 - Handheld nagura (from left to right) - Top row

Some of these serve as tomo nagura to the bench stones. I use the tsushima pretty often for the final sharpening progresion with either the Hideriyama or Okudo shiro suita. The uchigumori also gets time with polishing, as it can make some stones stick less.

  • Nakayama tomae
  • Okudo shiro suita
  • Nakayama Akapin
  • Tsushima
  • Uchigumori

Pic 2 - Handheld Mikawa nagura (from left to right) - Bottom row

Super useful to have these that can change the finish a bench stone normally puts on. I also use these in several of my projects to create a bright, frosted kasumi that can start to show details. For example, the Manaka x Xinguo banding was revealed by using slurry on the Meijiro.

  • Ban
  • Yae-Botan
  • Botan
  • Tenjyo
  • Meijiro
  • Koma
  • Ungraded

If you made it this far, I applaud you. Much appreciated for reading!

u/Optimal_Difference64 — 6 days ago
▲ 50 r/NaturalWhetstones+1 crossposts

Mom, can we get natural whetstone?

No, we have natural whetstone at home. I visited my sister today who lives next to a quarry and we went on a hike to find some pretty stones. Once we got back to her house we broke out the tile saw and cut up some pieces. I ended up with over a dozen beautiful pieces of slate, and some gorgeous red stones that are very common where I live. Some initial testing on the kiridashi proves promising. The slate feels a lot like my cambrock silkstone. The patterns in the stones are gorgeous. The red is a really fast cutter! Im still flattening these, but just stopping in to say I've got some more awesome stone writeups coming your way. Anyone else go natural whetstone hunting in their back yard?

u/Chase1126 — 2 days ago

maruoyama shikiuchigumori

Hardness: 5

Fineness: 5

Slurry: hard to produce

Stickyness: higher than average

Small rock of "not real" uchigumori from maruoyama mine, not an easy one to polish with but gives actually very nice fine edge with very tiny barely noticeable scratches.

Not glassy all the way and slowly starts producing slurry after a minute of work.

u/Eeret — 2 days ago
▲ 12 r/NaturalWhetstones+1 crossposts

I love natural stones! I went to a random beach and found a flat, rectangular stone. I flattened it even more on some cinder blocks and it sharpens! it doesnt cut that fast, but it makes some wicked sharp edges! (at least for me🫤) I got 3 shaving edges in one day!!!!!!!!! the stone makes a dark grey slurry.

Edit: YOOOOOOOOO! chill i forgot a picture....😢 What do you guys think it is? I

2nd Edit: Found in Nova Scotia in eastern Canada.

https://preview.redd.it/tt8nwqluejzg1.jpg?width=2992&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8eef9cbff48a7ab83db0ea9e6a99aadb03e718c7

reddit.com
u/Ok_Razzmatazz7646 — 8 days ago
▲ 96 r/NaturalWhetstones+2 crossposts

Some toys came in. Sadly I just got surgery so I probably wont get to play with them for a while.

Hideriyama Tomae
Mikawa Chu Nagura
Mikawa Mejiro Nagura
Some Uchi finger stones

And probably the most important thing for fight the high and low spots, a straightening stick.

Still waiting on one more that I am pretty excited for.

u/pchiggs — 12 days ago

Pre 1880 piece of "Butterscotch Translucent"

Cleaned and degreased, it is in fact a yellow color. Some say butterscotch translucent arks are oil stains, I disagree.

This was a gift to a mans brother in law in 1880, and later to his son in 1914.

u/Argg1618 — 6 days ago
▲ 68 r/NaturalWhetstones+1 crossposts

I just picked up a newly mined Belgian Coticule and had a bit of time to play around with it. The stone is 8"x2" and I believe it to be of the La Grise variety based on what Ardennes as been mining recently and the patterns on the surface of the stone. If you know otherwise, please feel free to share!

I've had a Belgian Blue for a while now, and it has been one of my favorite stones for a quick kitchen knife edge or a fat hazy kasumi. It's easy to use, and the surface feeling of the stone is nothing like my other European/American/Japanese natural stones. I've been on the hunt for some unique yellow Belgian Coticules, but due to lack of luck in auctions, I've broken down and gotten a new one

Background:
Coticules are very popular in the razor community as a one and done stone. The right coticule can be used as a coarser bevel setter with a thick slurry and a razor finisher with fresh water. Coticules are mined in the same place as Belgian Blues, and traditionally come attached to one, using the harder blue stone as a base material to hold the soft yellow coticule together. The nicest coticules are mined naturally attached to these blue stones, but with modern supply many are glued to them, or like in my case, just glued to a piece of slate. The surface of coticules are very unique. They are incredibly soft stones, but the inclusion of garnets in the stone material acts as the abrasive surface. This leaves an incredibly beatiful surface that catches the light in its unique micro patterns in a reflective way. It's hard to describe, almost like the reflective properties of a street sign on what would otherwise be a chalky stone. The stones are INCREDIBLY fragile, a fingernail can dig out scratches. I found out the hard way that I had mushed the tip of my kiridashi when I pressed it against the coticule and immediately dug out a groove in the stone. I didn't have to lap it out, as within a few hours of playing with the stone and slurrying it the surface has already removed enough material to wash it away. My initial thoughts are that the softness of these stones is not talked about enough. I imagine that with any heavy use I could use up one of these stones very quickly... which is probably why you see so many worn out ones on ebay.

Polish:
In short, soft and fine. An unusual combination for sure. The texture of the stone is so unique, like a slate stone mixed with soft butter. The feedback is intense, and more direct than any stone I own. It tells you exactly what you are doing, and consequentially will damage itself if you don't listen to what it says. With a razor, a slurry is reccomended, but with a kiridashi, it slurries itself as fast as an aoto, and immediately turns light grey with metal particles. I would call it a medium speed cutter. It's soft and ready to work, but too fine to remove serious amounts of metal. The finish it leaves on the kiridashi shows that unlike it's Belgian Blue brother, it is not ideal for polishing. The surface is fine, highly reflective, but seriously scratchy for the fineness it provides. I've read that this is fairly signature for Belgian Coticules.

Smell:
Unlike Japanese natural stones that have a damp and funky aroma, this belgian coticule smells sweet and fresh. My nose mostly picks up the smell of the slate base material. Sweet chalkboard.

Sharpening:
I finally took my Mazaki to stones. After test fitting it so many times while making it the spalted tamarind saya, the edge had lost it's sharpness and it needed to be done. The Coticule was a wonderful surface to refresh the White #2 steel in the Mazaki. I found the cutting speed here to be adequate, and notably, incredibly responsive in it's feedback of the proper micro-bevel angle. These stones are sold as ~8000 grit by Ardennes, and while I would say that the refinement of the edge reflects that, the scratchy finish of the bevel sets it apart. I would call it medium reflectivity of core steel at a distance. The edge left excellently toothy for vegetable skins, but not fine enough for where I know Mazaki's white steel can go. I would call this semi-finisher for white steel, and a finisher for blue. Nowhere near as fast as synthetic stones, but I think the edge is excellent for more refinement than a Naniwa Chosera 3000 offers while retainting a toothyness that a synthetic 8000 stone would not give.

Razor:
How lovely this stone is to lap away at with a razor. I would describe the experience as theraputic. You can lightly feel the grains of garnets as you make each pass. I would describe the feeling like poprocks sunk in to soft butter. Taking the stone to fresh water finishing definitely gives a razor edge that can be shaved with, but is not fine enough for my taste. This stone in particular is likely not a final finisher, but an excellent medium AND semi-final stone. The range here is impressive. It will be a regular user on my razors as I find it incredibly enjoyable to use.

Notes:
I think I need to collect more Coticules. From what I read, I believe this to be a coarser Coticule, and I would really like to see how these stones perform on the finer end. Someone tell Ardennes to get some more La Vienettes and La Dressantes in stock. I'm itching for a fix.

I hope you guys are enjoying these posts. I have a bunch of new stones that I'm excited show show to you, but I'm trying to take my time to learn them and have something solid to say about them. Is there anything you guys would like me to explore with them? Any comparisons you would like me to make? Any pictures you would like to see? Up next is either a Cambrock Silkstone or a Tam O Shanter. I'm having a lot of fun with my Euro stones right now.

u/Chase1126 — 11 days ago
▲ 87 r/NaturalWhetstones+1 crossposts

Background:
Mined from the Glanrafon Slate Quarry in Wales that closed in the early 1900s. It is an extremely hard and fine slate stone that has beautiful and highly diverse patterns throughout. I 100% bought this stone because I thought it was pretty, and I continue to pine for the Glanrafons that go for sale as I am completely obsessed with how different they can look. I’m not sure if this stone should be honed with, or mounted on a wall. I’m amazed by how many varieties of stones were actually mined in this small region. Dragons Tongue, Yellow Lake, Llyn Idwal, Llyn Melynllyn, Cambrock Silkstone… many of these are on my must try list. This stone is easily one of my favorites in my collection.

Looks:
A light grey background splattered with a Jackson Pollock of black lines, dark grey speckles, yellow whisps, and reflective metallic spots. It’s dense, over 1000g, and perfectly smooth. None of the patterns in the stone can be felt on steel. It resists slurry, but when I kick some up with a diamond pad it is grey with a slight purple tint that I don’t think I was able to pick up on camera, but looks awesome in person.

Smell:
Damp cave, neutral, slate. Makes me think of hiking trails around waterfalls where I live. Are we surprised it smells like wet slate? 

Polishing:
I started off with a thick slurry. The stone cuts fairly slow, and it takes a while for the purple/grey slurry to turn to a fairly unpleasant looking brown green as it fills with metal particulate. These brown hues in particulate seem to occur in stones that I think are slightly acidic and can leave tungsten finishes when polishing. The stone fights me a bit, which is a bit of a change from the coticules I’ve been playing with all morning. It doesn’t seem to care too much about water, it doesn’t drink at all, but it requires more attention to pressure and angle. The feedback is very light, it doesn’t tell you what's going on until you are way off the mark and it can gouge. The surface feeling while polishing is one small step back from glassy smooth. It feels significantly harder than my other slate stones and is certainly one of the hardest and finest stones I own. The finish I achieve with the thick pre-made slurry is a little scratchier than I anticipated. It manages to leave a medium-high reflective haze on the iron cladding with a shiny but somewhat scratchy core steel. I wipe off the slurry and give it another shot, but this time on just pure water. The stone is clearly much happier here. The surface feel is even closer to glassy. It now approaches a fineness territory that I am not talented enough to wrangle, and my kiridashi is not flat enough to receive. Parts of the iron cladding along with the entire core steel are now completely reflective. I still have scratches from an imperfectly prepared kiridashi surface, but the more I work it the more they disappear and all semblance of contrast goes with it. All this is to say, it’s probably not a polishing stone, at least for newbies like me.

Sharpening:
With slurry the scratch pattern is fine, and without slurry even more so. The edge is incredibly refined. This is far beyond where you would ever normally need to take a kitchen knife, but boy can it provide one hell of a sharp edge. Cutting speed here is slow, as one would expect, and feel when sharpening is glassy. The only thing I feel are the grains of removed metal particulate. I sharpened my Hatsukokuro Bunka in Aogami and it left a highly reflective mirror. I grabbed a sacrificial potato, and it just lasered through it like it wasn’t even there. Not even a sound. I doubt the edge retains any tooth, but on the right meat and vegetables this stone is hilarious. Do I need to say that this stone does not self slurry?

Razor:
This is no doubt where this stone exceeds. This is my number one razor finishing stone at the moment as it leaves an edge north of 12k. It needs to be set up properly with supporting stones, but when done right this stone is more than capable of leaving a tree topping edge. The feel when lapping a razor is much similar to polishing and sharpening. Smooth, glassy, not water dependent. Once well honed, the razor will stick to the stone on lift up, but the stone doesn’t skip or burnish in lapping. It sits right on the edge of burnishing, right at the finest point I’ve seen yet where the stone is still abrading and removing metal. It sits around a 4.5 - 5 / 5 Jnat as far as edge performance, very similar to my Nakayama Hachimai. It also works great with Mikawa Nagura stone progressions. 10/10, you can’t have this one, get your own.

Notes:
All resources I see declare this stone incredibly rare, but I got mine from a guy on etsy who seems to have a bunch rotating with some pretty wild looking designs. I won’t lie to you, this stone is pretty expensive. If I were a richer man, I would be slurping up all the availability and collecting them like paintings.

u/Chase1126 — 9 days ago

Hello TCK!

Well, there is a new Japanese natural stone in my collection and I am beyond excited.

If you want all the talk about its looks and aesthetic characteristics, check the comments for the other part of my two-part NSD which will be out soon. But on this post, we are going to dive into specifically its performance and use.

Rule 5: Mikawa Nagura Botan (ungraded, unmarked bench stone)

TL/DR: I've looking for the next goal in this hobby and I decided to become better at sharpening single bevels + start taking polishing more seriously. I have been practicing for weeks on beater single bevels and found I was missing a medium grit polisher to jump to finer stones. This Mikawa is exactly what I was looking for...so far.

I have only spent about 45 minutes on this stone since getting it, but I can confirm this stone is wonderful. Before my typical random ramblings, let's get the stone details out of the way...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Details of this Mikawa Nagura Botan...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mikawa Nagura Botan bench stone

  • Basic Dimensions
    • 218mm long, 78mm wide, 52mm thick, ~1820g
  • Hardness, grit range, etc.
    • Hardness: 3.5/5
    • Grit: 3.8/5
    • Cutting speed: 4/5, but needs slurry
    • Self-slurrying?: 2.5/5; much better with nagura
    • Sealed?: Yes; cashew lacquer
  • Kanji and markings
    • This stone has no kanji or markings of any kind other than the "20" on the bottom of the striped area. That "20" is likely because it was sold to the distributor as a collection of rough stones without markings or grading. The previous owner flattened it and made it useable before selling it to me. No other info beyond that.
  • Other notable characteristics
    • ボタン (Botan) - This is the Mikawa version of the strata; it is the 4th-finest of seven layers.
    • 白 (Shiro) - The base color is white.
    • 環巻 (Kan) - This is the term for the wood-like pattern of the stone where it is striped. A stone does not need to be fully striped to be considered a Kan pattern and some are bisected like mine.
    • 煙硝 (Enshou) - A term for the black lines and crystalline parts you can see throughout the stone; scientifically known as a type dendrite, like renge.
    • 別大上と上特級 (Betsu Dai Jou & Tokkyuu Jou) - My stone does not have this grading, but in the world of Mikawa Nagura, Betsu Dai Jou refers to the stone being white and a uniform shape and Tokkyuu Jou refers to the stone being striped and a uniform shape; my stone has both.
  • Use case in my collection: This is my final polisher in the nakatoishi range before jumping to the awasedo stones. It will be mostly used for single bevels with shirogami steels from Sakai, but I plan to test it beyond that use case.
  • Score: 8/10; Since I am still getting to know it, I felt 8/10 was the highest I could give, but there is room for this score to improve as I get to know the stone better.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Fine, fast, buttery & wonderful, but weird, quirky & unique...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's just start with some basics and work into how the stone felt, some weirdness and some takeaways on the final finish. Lastly, I'll touch on my plan going forward for it.

Grit range:

The stone has a wide grit range depending on slurry, nagura used and amount of water. In a very short amount of time with it, I would say it's ~3.5k-5k with the finish off the Atoma 400 shown in the video above being toward the finer side of that range. I would bet that grit range would only widen with the use of a few different nagura-sized Mikawa stones too, but I will wait to go into more detail; more on that below.

Hardness and cutting speed:

The hardness and cutting speed of this stone are super interesting to me. Without slurry it was a very slow cutter, struggled to create its own slurry and felt harder than it is; I really disliked it if I am honest. But once I raised a slurry, it became a very quick cutter and started to feel friable with buttery smooth feedback despite being pretty damn fine grit; just fucking perfect for my use case as a single bevel polisher. The slurry is just barely off-white with a shade of tan and is raised easily with a diamond plate. The slurry is also pretty fine in thickness too; not just grit range. It does not thicken up like softer stones, but continues to refresh itself nonetheless. It only starts to struggle once it gets dry.

I get why it's so tough to nail down any measurement for hardness and cutting speed on these Mikawa Nagura because of how different they perform with and without slurry; it's like a different stone depending on how you use it.

This stone is really REALLY thirsty:

On the note of water, this is the thirstiest fucking Japanese natural stone I have ever seen and the only one I have ever soaked. Again, this stone is kinda weird despite also being wonderful for my use case.

Before starting, I soaked it for 10 minutes and let it air dry for another five minutes. By the time I used it, the stone was already asking for more water like a dry sponge. The stone is sealed on five sides so it can handle a bit of soaking, but I would not recommend this for almost any other JNat. Even with slurry, I still tend to keep a lot of water on the surface while working on it. It does stay hydrated for long enough to be an efficient stone, but it takes some maintenance to keep it cutting how you want.

Final finish details:

The finish is really impressive for this grit range. Not only did I spend under an hour on the stone, but I jumped straight from my Amakusa (~1k) straight to this Mikawa Botan which is quite the leap to remove scratches. Despite that, it really came away with a more-than-passable, but far-from-perfect finish in just about 25 minutes or so of actual stone work, which you can see above.

The finish is bright and shimmers; the details in the steel are more about how they shine more than pulling up any banding or other details. Also, this steel is far from anything special so I did not expect much. Still, the core steel is bright, the contrast is there, and there are more details revealed than expected. Hard to be upset with a finish like that with as little experience as I have with the stone and its not even meant to be a final polisher, but to set up the kireha for that next step. Hard to find anything wrong with this finish; its just so consistent without being overly contrasted or overly mirror.

How is it for edge work?

I have not tested it for edge work yet so TBD there, but it is unlikely to be a strong stone in that space and I have no reason to use this Mikawa over my Aizu for that purpose.

What's next?

Well, it's safe to say I am extremely happy with this stone so far, but I can feel there is more versatility and potential still to unlock. So the plan is to keep it in this role as final nakatoishi polisher and add some nagura-sized Mikawa stones to change up the slurry at each stage and refine the progression.

I already have some Asano-graded nagura on the way from Sakamoto-san's Buyee store: one Botan as a psudo tomo nagura, one Meijro for a harder/finer option & one Koma I'm hoping is a bit softer and finer than the Mejiro. I am also on the lookout to add an Atsu as well to add a coarse nagura to the mix.

Keep an eye out for that post in the next couple weeks!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks as always for reading! I'm hoping these Japanese natural stone videos of the stone being in use will be helpful to others curious about using them. Let me know if this was a helpful addition to my typical word vomiting I do.

Also, keep an eye out for another NSD post on my Mikawa to drop soon with a bunch of pictures of the stone and some talk about the different visual characteristics at play. Should be up later tonight!

See you all then,

-Teej

u/TEEEEEEEEEEEJ23 — 7 days ago

Lavender Simple Green Scented Washitas

My least favorite part is cleaning them. I like this method, so far this seems to speed things up alot.

u/Argg1618 — 5 days ago

Hello!

This is the second of two parts for my NSD; this post will focus on pictures and talk about its sweet sweet looks. Here is the link to the other part which is the video to me using this Mikawa Nagura: NSD: 60-second video using my new Mikawa Chu Nagura (wet, slurried, in-use & final finish)

ALSO, A QUICK UPDATE: I had this stone loosely graded by Craig at Carbon Knife Co.; he spent around 20 minutes with it and we both agreed it is finer than Botan so I will be calling it Mikawa Chu Nagura from here on out. Botan is widely used for unmarked and ungraded stones because it covers the widest range, but that does not mean it's always true, like in this case. FWIW, it is also a bit softer and works better without slurry than I was able to accomplish on my own. So, some of the specs and details of the stone below will also different than my first post to reflect that.

Rule 5: Mikawa Chu Nagura (ungraded, unmarked bench stone)

TL/DR: I've looking for the next goal in this hobby and I decided to become as good at sharpening single bevels as I am on double bevels + taking polishing more seriously. I have been practicing for weeks on beater single bevels and found I was missing a medium grit polisher to jump to finer stones to get the stone finishes I wanted. This Mikawa is exactly what I was looking for...so far.

What a fucking stunner; taking pictures of this stone was such a joy and I am so happy the shots came out good and I can share them here. But first, the details of the stone...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Details of this Mikawa Chu Nagura...

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mikawa Chu Nagura bench stone

  • Basic Dimensions
    • 218mm long, 78mm wide, 52mm thick, ~1820g
  • Hardness, grit range, etc.
    • Hardness: 3.5/5
    • Grit: 4/5
    • Cutting speed: 4/5
    • Self-slurrying?: 3.2/5
    • Sealed?: Yes; cashew lacquer
  • Kanji and markings
    • This stone has no kanji or markings of any kind other than the "20" on the bottom of the striped area. That "20" is likely because it was sold to the distributor as a collection of rough stones without markings or grading. The previous owner flattened it and made it useable before selling it to me. No other info beyond that.
  • Other notable characteristics
    • 白 (Shiro) - The base color is white.
    • 環巻 (Kan) - This is the term for the wood-like pattern of the stone where it is striped. A stone does not need to be fully striped to be considered a Kan pattern and some are bisected like mine.
    • 煙硝 (Enshou) - A term for the black lines and crystalline parts you can see throughout the stone; scientifically known as a type dendrite, like renge.
    • 別大上 / 上特級 (Betsu Dai Jou / Tokkyuu Jou) - My stone does not have this grading, but in the world of Mikawa Nagura, Betsu Dai Jou refers to the stone being white and a uniform shape and Tokkyuu Jou refers to the stone being striped and a uniform shape; my stone has both.
  • Use case in my collection: This is my final polisher in the nakatoishi range before jumping to the awasedo stones. It will be mostly used for single bevels with shirogami steels from Sakai, but I plan to test it beyond that use case.
  • Score: 8.5/10; Since I am still getting to know it, I felt 8.5/10 was the highest I could give, but there is room for this score to improve as I get to know the stone better.
  • Video: NSD: 60-second video using my new Mikawa Nagura Botan (wet, slurried, in-use & final finish)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's talk about those looks because DAMN!

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The Kan pattern is outstanding

The first thing you notice when you see this stone is the pattern. It is not Mokume (incomplete circular wood rings) or Nenrin Hada (complete circular wood rings) but Kan.

Kan is horizontal lines bisecting the stone in the way wood rings look when viewed close up. Kan does not require the stone to be fully striped to be considered as such, but just a section of it. That is why this stone is considered a Kan pattern despite 3/4s of it being pure white (pic 1). Mikawa grading and visual indicators have different terminology (which we will get to in the next section) but this is a great example of both on one stone. You can even see the distinction of each pattern on the back through the chisel marks (pic 3).

The white section almost looks more like Tamagoiro than Shiro when wet (pic 2) with the light yellow splotches, but the slurry is definitely the off-white color expected from a Mikawa Shiro Nagura. Still, the coloration is subtly beautiful. There is so much detail to look at, and that is without discussing the Enshou, which comes to life with water. We will talk more about the Enshou lower down too, don't worry.

I'm not super experiencedbut I don't remember many Mikawa being split between Betsu Dai Jou and Tokkyuu Jou so clearly like this

I called the pattern Kan, but there are two other terms used for Mikawa stones in particular.

The first is Betsu Dai Jou which loosely means a uniform square shape and white stone in Mikawa-world. the top 3/4s fits this definition exactly. But there is also Tokkyuu Jou which refers to a uniform square striped stone which is exactly what the bottom 1/4 of the stone is.

Truthfully, I am not sure which of the two Mikawa Nagura terms would apply here but anecdotally it feels rarer to see both so defined on one stone. It is certainly part of what grabbed my attention first when I saw it. Seeing both patterns reach down the sides and to the back (pics 3-7) astounds me knowing this is a naturally occurring pattern; it feels fabricated or fake.

But when I started looking closer, it wasn't the pattern, but the Enshou within the Tokkyuu Jou (pic 8) that really grabbed my attention.

Getting those Enshou details in the Tokkyuu Jou (striped) area is an insane cherry on top

There are many things I love about natural stones, but dendrites are very very high on that list. Renge of course, but also this Enshou, which is really the same thing, but on a stone other than a suita or uchigumori.

In this case, it is the black patterning at the bottom of the stone within the striped Tokkyuu Jou section that we are referring to. It is much clearer when wet (pic 2). It stretches from the surface, down the sides and through the back of the stone (pics 3-7).

By far my favorite picture I've taken of this stone (pic 8) is of the side where the Enshou against the backdrop of the Tokkyuu Jou pattern looks like trees on rolling hills. This looks like a painting; not crystalline bits within layers of rock. Fucking Japanese natural stones...

I need to learn to seal with cashew lacquer one day; it's beautiful

First, I have a whole new appreciation for cashew lacquer; it's consistent, feels great in the hand and you can tell it's a wonderful sealant for stones. But beyond its use, the looks are more beautiful than I realized.

I haven't talked much about the kawa (skin, or the back of the stone) because I have been waiting until this section. The way the cashew lacquer plays with the details of the kawa is a piece of art in itself. The chisel marks create a surface ideal for the slight luster of the cashew lacquer to play with the light. At the same time, it shows the distinct line between Betsu Dai Jou and Tokkyuu Jou on the back as it is on the front.

This got me thinking how much more gorgeous cashew lacquer is compared to other sealants. I am totally ok with other methods and am by no means that much of a purist. All of my natural stones but this Mikawa are sealed in spray-on shellac and I find no issue with that, but I am second guessing myself now.

It might be expensive, flammable, smelly and more difficult to work with, but man cashew lacquer sealing is calling to me.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks as always for reading! I'm hoping these Japanese natural stone videos and follow-up post with pictures and a closer look at its visual characteristics will be helpful to others curious about using them.

I hope you are all well! See you next time.

-Teej

u/TEEEEEEEEEEEJ23 — 7 days ago

Hi everyone, first post here.

My journey into natural stones, Jnats specifically, began earlier this year in February, and in this short time I've added 3 stones to the lineup. I've written a little on my thoughts for each stone so far.

- Tsushima Nagura (~5000-8000)

- Nakayama Nashiji Tomae (Lv 4/5) 206x78x34mm

- Nishiyama Shiro Suita (Lv 4.5/5) 220x79x40mm

Tsushima Nagura (medium)

My first stone, works amazingly well for transitioning from synthetic to natural scratch patterns for wide bevel polishing, and also gives my carbon steel knives a very toothy edge, incredibly pleased for having paid only €80 for it. I only use the stone with slurry (made with an aroma 400), which is very readily forthcoming and makes for a comfortable, though sticky polishing & sharpening feel.

It produces a really nice Kasumi on iron-cladding, and a more splotchy Kasumi on stainless cladding (depending on steel grade), and brightens the core steel to a (very) foggy mirror.

Nakayama Nashiji Tomae

My second stone, with its role to continue the polishing progression post-Tsushima, and leave a scratch-free kasumi and very bright polished core steel. I have a long ways to go to master this stone, and I definitely think I've only discovered about 30% of what it can do. very much looking forward to learning more about it. I've used it so far only with a medium slurry, and the polishing feel is very comfortable, not as sticky as the Tsushima, but much thirstier, so a couple drops of water are added frequently.

The stone doesn't self-slurry very easily, and requires quite a bit of pressure to start releasing anything with the knife, but Atoma makes short work of raising a slurry. The lacquer coating it came with on the sides is very flaky and is coming off already, so I'm thinking to seal it myself in the coming weeks. I'd leave it raw, but the stone does have a crack down the middle (height wise), so best to avoid a tragedy and up with 2 uneven 15mm thick stones. Got this one for around €300.

The Nishiyama Shiro Suita

The newest addition, only got it in today, and immediately fell in love with how it looks. Gorgeous stone with some unfortunate flaws. The stone has multiple toxic inclusions, the "clumpy" one is pictured, and the toxic line is towards the top of the stone (visible as a slightly reflective, dug-out line in the family picture and also the thick black line next to it). I don't know much about this stone (or mine) and couldn't find anything online. The seller mentioned that these are practically no longer on the market. Only thing I was able to gather is that "Nishiyama" could either refer to a stone mining area in Yamagata Prefecture, a bit north of Fukushima, or it could refer to a general collection of "western" mines in Kyoto. Though given it has a 'Shiro Suita' designation, I'm guessing it's coming from Kyoto. If anyone knows more about this beautiful rock, please do tell. Any suggestions for how to get the toxic inclusion out? Since the stone requires diamond lapping to get a slurry going, I'd like to make sure I don't introduce any of the harder (toxic) minerals into the slurry.

After having used it for both Kireha polishing and Koba sharpening, the results are fantastic! As expected for a lv 4.5 stone, it doesn't self slurry at all so it needs the atoma with quite a bit of pressure to get just a bit of mud. It cuts very quickly and leaves a very dark completely scratch-free kasumi, and a very hazy mirror core. The edges it produces with a bit of slurry may be the most aggressive yet refined I've ever achieved so far. The knife feels like it pulls itself into produce effortlessly. Couldn't be happier with the stone, but do need to figure out something about those inclusions since they somewhat prevent usage.

u/TheMightySwiss — 12 days ago
▲ 29 r/NaturalWhetstones+1 crossposts

Today I’m pounding through some stone reviews, and we are starting off with one I found super exciting! This is a vintage Belgian Coticule that is naturally attached to a piece of Belgian Blue. The stone is very used, and very thin, and at some point was attached to ANOTHER Beligian Blue for stability. There isn’t much life left in this beauty, just enough for a taste.
For those who saw my new Ardennes Belgian Coticule review the other day, I’m going to be making a bunch of comparisons. This stone is much softer, as you can probably tell just by looking at the surface. There are no reflective surface patterns like the new coticule, and the color is much darker and more creamy. At first I assumed oil contamination, but the stone was freshly lapped and flattened and the dark creamyness remains unchanged.

Looks:
A somewhat flat tan. Under close inspection one side of the stone has light spots of a more orange color and a light mottled grain of similar tannish yellows runs throughout the stone. It is less silky to the touch than the new coticule, but does not have the “poprocks” inclusions which leaves the surface very flat and chalky. Some parts of the stone have just a glimpse of yellow left before transitioning to Belgian Blue. The transition of Belgian Blue splits the stone in a soft wave that gets deeper at one side. The underlying Belgian Blue is of a light color. Towards the bottom of the stone a thin slab of a different variety of what I assume is Belgian Blue that stabilizes the stone. This bottom variety is much deeper and more purple. I decided to lap it lightly on a diamond stone and it left a fat streak of bright purple. I’m not sure if the spots of yellow on the bottom are the remnants of another coticule, or just old workshop dirt. They don’t come off with the lapping. Decidedly the freshly lapped bottom finish makes me think Belgian Blue or maybe a pyrenees… I’ll have to play with it. Thoughts?

Smell:
Neutral to sweet. I can smell the woodshop that this stone must have lived in for many years. It somehow reminds me of my grandfathers workshop. Faint oil, sawdust. 

Polishing. 
A diamond pad brings up a nice light yellow slurry. It only takes a few moments for the aogami kiridashi to change the slurry to light grey. The stone would certainly slurry enough on its own, and I would call this a fast cutter in comparison to the new coticule. The “grain” of this stone is much finer and more uniform in feel, and it sucks the kiridashi to it’s surface. Mud covers everything, this stone will not last long. Pleasantly strong feedback on proper angle, it tells you directly when you have it right. It is delicate, as expected. The slurry actually feels really nice on my skin, like some sort of lotion. Natural stone face mask spa day?
Oh. My. God. The hazy kasumi finish this stone produces is S tier. A highly reflective core with a FAT and uniform haze on the iron cladding. No detectable scratchyness on this finish whatsoever. It puts my Ohira Uchigumori to shame. It reminds me of the perfect haze you usually see on sandblasted knives. I don’t think I have another stone that achieves this level of fat haze while retaining a shiny and non scratchy core. This stone is absolutely a polishing dream. Someone help me identify this variety of coticule, I need ten more of them.

Sharpening:
Under a microscope, the scratch pattern is more uniform than the new Ardennes coticule, but decidedly less fine. I’m not surprised by the uniformity considering the polishing finish. With my limited testing I will say that it still has a significant bite which I believe is visible under the microscope. The edge is not as refined here, and while some of that could be because I’m sharpening aogami instead of Mazaki’s White #2, it’s definitely a function of the stone being slightly coarser too. Further testing is required on white steel, but I find this aogami edge pretty much in the sweet zone for toothy multi-purpose kitchen use. 

Razor:
Despite what I expected when purchasing this stone, it is nowhere near a razor finisher. I had to try two kamisori razors to confirm, but the surface feels almost sandpapery here. I broke out my Belgian Blue stone to compare, and the blue is actually quieter and more fine. I’m not sure how to interpret this.

Notes: 
If it weren’t so obviously visually and in slurry characteristics a Belgian Coticule, I would think that I have a different stone. I’ve been trying to hunt down a more fine coticule, but ended up with one that may be coarser than my belgian blue. Having said that, I very much like the stone, but for different reasons than I intended.

u/Chase1126 — 9 days ago

The labels are in pretty rough shape. The company produced these stones and the Deerlick Waterhone from 1886 until they were bought out by Carborundum Company in 1909. There even appears to be a hair stuck under the label, looks kinda big for human hair. Looking forward to lapping and cleaning this. It is fine and dense sandstone, heavier and finer than Queer Creek.

u/Alphabet-soup63 — 9 days ago

A very nice size mikawa botan nagura. I purchased from gwee a couple years ago. I would like to sell it anyone is interested. Measures as 225x77x36.5. Very thirsty stone takes a bit to saturate for it to be useable. Only used it a couple of times purely for edge work.

EDIT:

Gonna keep this one around a while longer. Thanks for any interest!

u/Creative-Call214 — 13 days ago

I recently fell down the rabbit hole of sharpening stones with national stock numbers. A soft and a ‘white hard’, with a cameo by my government issued switchblade.

u/Alphabet-soup63 — 13 days ago