Which one is top pick? and which is the bottom? For me well I took 2 of them miracle berries 200mg and pretty much felt nothing

The letter that FDA Commissioner Marty Makary, M.D., M.P.H., sent to healthcare professionals. (THIS ENRAGED ME-LONG POST)

***It makes me so mad when people in power spread so much misinformation. ***He's saying "7oh is 13x more potent than morph!ne". **Total misinformation**..it is 13x stronger at BINDING TO THE RECEPTOR!!!!******

*13x stronger at binding to the receptor only raises questions about duration of action, spacing of doses, how long side effects linger, and also about how these agents interact with your receptors can affect other processes.*

This is from user /u/glowant22.

[Here is a government clinical study showing that they can not find a lethal dose of 7oh](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6662923/)

**From the trial:**

**"Lethality.**

*We wanted to compare IV to oral lethality for the two alkaloids of Kratom, so we also determined an approximate oral LD50 value for mitragynine using the following doses: 500, 250, 125, and 62.5 mg/kg .*

**We attempted to determine an oral LD50 value for 7-hydroxymitragynine; however, none of the mice expired at any of the doses (50, 25, 12.5, and 6.25 mg/kg;).**"

**Then he has the audacity to say it causes "FATAL RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION"! THIS MAKES ME SO MAD! IT DOESN'T HAVE THE ABILITY TO CAUSE FATAL RESPIRATORY DEPRESSION! It is just a partial opioid agonist, *that has a ceiling effect!***

_________________________________

Yes! 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) is a potent partial agonist at the mu-opioid receptor. 

**CEILING EFFECT OF 7OH------**

7-Hydroxymitragynine (7-OH), a potent active metabolite of mitragynine found in kratom, functions as a partial agonist at the -opioid receptor (MOR). This partial agonism creates a "ceiling effect," a pharmacological phenomenon where, beyond a certain dosage, increases in dose do not produce a corresponding increase in effect, specifically regarding respiratory depression.

**Key Aspects of the 7-OH Ceiling Effect:**

*Respiratory Safety Cap:*

Because 7-OH is a partial agonist, it triggers significant pain relief but typically does not drive maximum -opioid receptor activation, which caps its respiratory depression potential compared to full agonists like M0RPH1N3.

*Biased Agonism:*

7-OH preferentially activates G-protein signaling while weakly triggering the -arrestin-2 pathway. The -arrestin-2 pathway is strongly linked to classic opioid side effects, including respiratory depression, constipation, and tolerance.

*Distinction from Mitragynine:*

While the parent compound (mitragynine) has a pronounced, built-in ceiling effect due to its slow metabolic conversion to 7-OH (metabolic saturation), 7-OH itself can exhibit a more linear dose-dependent effect, particularly at very high doses, according to some studies.

*Similarity to Buprenorphine:*

Similar to the opioid addiction treatment buprenorphine, 7-OH's ceiling effect contributes to a potentially safer profile than traditional full-agonist opioids

_________________________________

***Another article had the audacity to put this nonsense out there.***

*"Serious health outcomes linked to kratom have also surged. Hospitalizations involving only kratom rose more than 1,150% over the decade, climbing from 43 cases in 2015 to 538 in 2025.*

*When kratom was combined with other substances, such as illicitdrugs or antidepressants, hospitalizations increased nearly 1,300%, from 40 to 549.*

*During the study period, 233 deaths were associated with kratom use. Of those, 184 involved multiple substances."*

***So out of the millions of people who use Kratom, around 500 have been hospitalized when combined with other substances.....(not much considering 1 person dies from alcohol related causes every 39 minutes)... And out of the 233 deaths, 184 involved multiple substances....not much in the grand scheme of things...***

_________________________________

**LETS TALK ABOUT HOSPITALIZATIONS AND DEATHS FROM AlC0H0L(ETOH), WHICH IS LEGAL and found on every corner.. CUT IT OUT WITH THE SENSATIONALIZED NONSENSE.**

ETOH-related deaths in the US remain high, with over 140,000 Americans dying annually from AlC0H0L(ETOH)related causes, averaging nearly 390 per day.

 Although fatalities fell from a 2021 peak of 54,258, 2024 data shows deaths remained 50% higher than a decade ago. ETOH-related hospitalizations have stabilized, but those with primary complications (e.g., liver disease) increased through 2022.

**Key 2025/2026 AlC0H0L(ETOH)-Related Data Points Death Rates:**

ETOH-related deaths dropped in 2023 and 2024 compared to the 2021 peak, yet remained roughly 20% higher than pre-pandemic levels (2019). 

**Cancer Deaths:**

ETOH contributes to approximately 20,000 cancer deaths in the US annually.

Hospitalization Trends:

While overall ETOH-related hospitalizations stabilized, cases with a primary diagnosis of ETOH-related medical complications increased from 70 to 83 per 100,000 between 2016 and 2022.

People need to fight this misinformation with true information.  So these lobbyists are literally going to kill people, sending them back to fen7yn4l and h3r01n.  The blood will be on their hands.  Not only do they produce the drugs that kill people, they want people on them even more because 7oh has saved too many people.

_________________________________

Recent studies by HART have shown ZERO DEATHS can be blamed on 7oh alone -by itself with no other substances involved.

**Based on recent reports, the claim that no deaths can be attributed to 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) alone is a point of intense debate, with some health organizations reporting fatal cases while advocates argue it is not the sole cause.**

_________________________________

**Key Findings on 7-OH Safety and Fatalities:**

**Reported Deaths:**

As of late 2025, the Los Angeles County Department of Public Health linked six fatal overdoses to the synthetic kratom compound 7-OH, noting that victims were otherwise healthy.

**“CONTRADICTORY CLAIMS****

Some, such as the Holistic Alternative Recovery Trust (HART), claim there are "zero deaths linked exclusively to 7-OH" in their data, contrasting it with raw kratom leaf.  

[LINK TO HART STUDY](https://hartsupporter.com/hart-responds-to-misleading-reports-on-7-oh-kratom-linked-to-200-deaths-by-fda-7-oh-linked-to-zero)

[HART WEBSITE](https://hartsupporter.com/7-oh-overview/)

WASHINGTON, D.C. – The Holistic Alternative Recovery Trust (HART) today released the following statement in response to misleading and incomplete media reports surrounding a 7-hydroxymitragynine (7-OH): 

**“The misinformation circulating about 7-OH misrepresents both the science and the safety record of this compound,” Jeff Smith, PhD, National Policy Director for HART. “The only clinical study cited by the FDA comes from a researcher funded by the Global Kratom Coalition, a group actively fighting 7-OH products that have cut into their market share.**

 ***That unreviewed, unpublished study sought to demonstrate harm by injecting 7-OH directly into mice’s bloodstream, even though humans consume it orally. Anything can be harmful if injected, eat a chocolate bar and you’re fine; inject it and you’ll die.*****

 The study was biased and misleading.”

**MYTH: 7-OH, not Kratom, is the problem.**

**FACT:**

According to the Food and Drug Administration’s (FDA) own Adverse Event Reporting System (FAERS), there have been under 40 adverse events, and ZERO deaths linked exclusively to 7-OH, despite well over a billion doses consumed nationwide.  

Contrast that with raw kratom leaf, which the FDA itself has associated with nearly 200 confirmed deaths

Polysubstance Misconception: While many cases involved mixtures (particularly with ETOH), health officials \\*STILL emphasize that 7-OH, acting as a potent opioid, can independently cause fatal respiratory depression.  ***WRONG***

_________________________________

And, another thing I want to throw in there. Read ***"How to Lie with Statistics by Darrell Huff”***

_________________________________

***And I will leave you with this-***

We should BAN HARD AlC0H0L. It is many times more potent than beer, and taking shots of it increases your intoxication 10x faster than a beer, and raises your tolerance.  2 SHOTS AND YOU ARE OVER THE LEGAL LIMIT AND CAN CAUSE A CRASH.

Ban hard AlC0H0L and keep beer legal! 2 shots and you are at risk of a DUI killing others. Same with 2 beers (although it's harder to drink 2 beers than 2 shots..) Restaurants don't care if they serve you more than 2 drinks, they encourage it since they make more money.  They don't care if you're driving home.  They send people home over the legal limit every day.

  AlC0H0L and b33r both kill hundreds of thousands of Americans every year and that's not count the children and families killed in car crashes.  I read a story almost every day about intoxicated drivers killing kids and families.

**1 ALC0H0L related drunk driving death every 39 minutes.**

***FROM THE CDC***

[In 2022, 13,524 people died in the US in crashes involving alcohol-impaired drivers, averaging 1 death every 39 minutes. These preventable incidents account for roughly 32% of all traffic-related deaths, highlighting a severe, ongoing public safety crisis.](https://www.cdc.gov/impaired-driving/facts/index.html#:\~:text=Overview-,Alcohol,1)

_________________________________

**I’ve worked as a paramedic for over 10 years and not once did I have a call for kratom or 7oh.  Thousands of calls for AlC0H0L, F3N7YN4l, H3R01N etc.  So much trauma, so much pain, so much loss, carnage, blood, dead families and kids from intoxicated drivers.  So many people with failing livers.**

_________________________________

**We should ban exercise as well. (I’m being facetious) (Lighten up the mood, it's heavy in here)**

[Pub Med study on Sudden Death Following Exercise; a Case Series](https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC4893759/)

_________________________________

Good day, well wishes, and stay safe.  Here is a way you can help!

_________________________________

You can use this link “ to [Contact your Members of Congress easily with this link and sample message to protect 7oh](https://democracy.io/”)

“**Here is a sample message to send:**

Subject: 

**Please Support Repealing the Ban on 7-OH Products – Protect Adult Consumer Choice and Responsible Regulation**

*Dear Senator [Last Name],*

*I am writing as a constituent from [your city/town, State], to respectfully urge you to support efforts to repeal or amend the recent ban (or proposed restrictions) on 7-hydroxymitragynine (commonly known as 7-OH) products.*

*7-OH is a naturally occurring compound found in small amounts in the kratom plant (Mitragyna speciosa). Concentrated 7-OH products have been used by many adults as a tool for pain management, mood support, and as an alternative to more dangerous substances like opioids or ETOH.*

*While I understand the concerns about potential risks, addiction, and youth access—especially with unregulated "gas station" products—an outright ban removes safe, legal options for responsible adults without addressing root causes like lack of proper labeling, age restrictions, or quality control.*

*A full prohibition drives the market underground, where products will be extremely dangerous, and it limits personal freedom for informed consumers.*

*Instead of a ban, I believe [YOUR STATE] should pursue smart regulation similar to successful Kratom Consumer Protection Acts in other states.*

*This could include:*

*Strict age limits (e.g., 21+)*

*Requirements for accurate labeling and third-party testing*

*Limits on potency or synthetic enhancements to prevent adulterated products.*

*Clear warnings and restrictions on marketing to minors*

*These measures would better protect public health while respecting the rights of adults to make their own choices about wellness supplements.*

*I have personally found 7-OH products helpful for [briefly share your reason if comfortable, e.g., "managing chronic pain without the side effects of prescription medications" or leave it general]. Many other [PEOPLE IN YOUR STATE] rely on these products responsibly and would be negatively impacted by continued restrictions.*

*I ask that you oppose any further expansion of the ban and support legislation to repeal or reform it in favor of balanced, evidence-based regulation. Please let me know if you would be open to discussing this further or if there are specific steps I can take to help.*

*Thank you for your time and service to our state. I look forward to your leadership on this important consumer freedom and public health issue.*

*Sincerely,*

*[First Name, Last Name]*

*[Your full address in the state you reside in]*

*[Your phone number]*

*[Your email address]*

_________________________________

*Please raise your voice and do your part to save this life saver, they are trying their best on Facebook, Instagram with their smear campaign, and it's our duty to fight back with statistics, and true information.*

*I want to include that 7oh actually binds far less than morphine. Here's a link to the post explaining it. There's a link to the study that is referenced in the comments on the post.*

https://www.reddit.com/r/7\_hydroxymitragynine/s/q9UGmThwp4

**Thank you.**

Im probably going to take 1/4th of this tablet (37.5mg) but Im tryna know how yall dose 7oh or this product more specifically. I have average weed tolerence and ive taken dxm in the past regularly but I have never before taken any kind of kratom. im tryna be geeked so i hope its enough and not too much

Following up on the "Gas Station Heroin" post. 7-OH isn't heroin, and the people pushing this panic are exactly the kind of bastards Robert covers.

A month ago a post here called 7-OH "gas station heroin" off the back of one family's awful experience. That story is real, addiction is real, and I'm glad OP's brother is doing well on Suboxone. But the takeaway most of the thread walked away with was wrong in ways this sub of all places should care about, because the people pushing the panic stand to make a lot of money off it.

Full disclosure on why this one hit personal for me: I've been using 7-OH successfully for years. It's the reason I'm not on prescription opioids, not on alcohol, and not bedridden. I work, I exercise, I sleep normally, I haven't had to escalate my dose. So when I see this stuff getting called heroin by people who have never touched it and have done zero reading on the pharmacology, I have a vested interest in the truth getting out, because the alternative for me and a lot of people like me is significantly worse.

Now, to the actual argument.

---

The top comment on the original post said it best

Over a thousand upvotes for this one:

> It is absurd that this shit is allowed but you STILL cant smoke a bit of weed in half the country.

That sentence is the whole story. We are watching the same political class that won't let cancer patients have cannabis suddenly discover an urgent moral panic about a partial mu-opioid agonist that has killed roughly nobody. Take a guess who's paying them.

---

Pharmacology, briefly, because the name is a lie

Heroin is a full mu-agonist that recruits ß-arrestin, which is the pathway that stops your breathing and kills you.

7-hydroxymitragynine is a partial agonist that does not recruit ß-arrestin and has a ceiling effect. Past a certain dose, more doesn't do more.

Mechanistically, it sits in the same family as buprenorphine, the active ingredient in Suboxone. That isn't a coincidence and it isn't a defense. It's literally why Suboxone works to treat 7-OH dependence. You cannot taper a real heroin habit on three days of bupe. People routinely come off 7-OH in under a week.

---

Dependency is not addiction

The second-most upvoted reply on the original thread already said it. Plenty of people take SSRIs, beta blockers, gabapentin, daily caffeine, methadone, or prednisone and develop physical dependence without their lives falling apart.

Conflating "you'll feel sick if you stop cold" with "you're a junkie" is exactly the rhetorical move Purdue used to deny opioid addiction existed in the first place. It's the same move being used now to call 7-OH heroin.

---

Speaking of Purdue

Half this sub already knows the Sacklers walked away with eleven billion dollars after starting the worst overdose crisis in modern American history.

The pendulum response to that crisis, where doctors now refuse to prescribe Tylenol-3 for broken bones, is what pushed an entire generation toward street fentanyl. People in this very subreddit have lost friends because the "ketamine" they bought was fent. People watched their dying spouses get denied pain meds in hospice. The fix to overprescription was never "cut everyone off." The fix was Switzerland, where heroin is prescribed in clinics and the OD rate is a fraction of ours.

We chose the other path because it polls better, and now we're pretending OTC botanical tablets are the bastard in this story.

---

The actual bastards, named

The smear campaign against 7-OH is not grassroots. The biggest financial winners from a federal ban are:

1. The Feel Free people. Botanic Tonics, makers of those little blue bottles that have their own subreddit of people trying to quit them, was founded by a guy with a prior federal opioid-related fraud conviction. Their drink contains kratom and kava but conveniently no 7-OH, so a 7-OH ban kills their biggest competitor while leaving them on every gas-station shelf in America.

2. The prescription buprenorphine industry, which has every reason to want a cheap OTC competitor scheduled into oblivion.

3. RFK Jr.'s HHS, which has been the loudest federal voice on this. Whatever you think of the rest of his agenda, "the man who put a dead bear in Central Park" is not an unbiased referee on which botanicals are safe.

The "concerned parent" energy on social media is real for a lot of regular people. The money funding the legislation is not regular people.

---

What the actual problem is

Not the molecule. By every metric we have, 7-OH kills less than alcohol, less than fentanyl, less than tobacco, and less than the prescription opioids your doctor refuses to give you for your slipped disc.

The problem is that an extracted, concentrated tablet with no dose cap, no warning label, and no age limit is sold next to the lottery tickets at 1 a.m., with zero friction between "I had a hard week" and "I'm spending $400 a weekend."

That is a regulation failure, not a substance failure.

The American Kratom Association has been asking for the obvious fix for years:

• Cap mitragynine content at 2% of total alkaloids, which automatically takes the high-dose extract tablets off the shelf while keeping plain leaf legal
• Age limits
• Mandatory dependence warnings on the label
• Ban convenience-store checkout marketing

You know, the stuff we already do for alcohol, which can actually kill you in withdrawal in ways 7-OH cannot.

---

What the panic gets you instead

Plain leaf kratom, the thing Robert has talked about positively, the thing thousands of pain patients and recovering addicts use as harm reduction, gets banned alongside the extracts. Because legislators don't read pharmacology papers. They read headlines that say "gas station heroin."

Then those people go back to alcohol, fentanyl, or untreated pain, and we pretend that's a win.

• Ohio just banned it. Locals are already reporting fentanyl ODs ticking up.
• Florida tried it. The rule expired because the data wasn't there. It's legal again.
• Michigan is up next.

We keep running this experiment and getting the same answer.

---

If you want to be mad about something in this story

Be mad at the unregulated extract industry.

Be mad at the Feel Free people.

Be mad at the legislators turning a regulation problem into a prohibition problem for the third time this century.

Be mad at the doctors and politicians who created the demand for OTC opioid alternatives by refusing to treat anyone's pain in the first place.

Don't be mad at the molecule. And please don't be mad at the people using it to stay alive, off booze, off pills, or off fent. We're not the bastards. We're the harm reduction.

---

Also, yes, legalize weed already

The fact that you can walk into one gas station and buy nitrous chargers, kratom, kava, 7-OH, and a Four Loko, while the cops in that same parking lot will arrest you for a joint, is the entire bit. The drug war is not failing. It is doing exactly what it was designed to do, which is to selectively criminalize whichever substance the wrong people use this decade.

We've seen this episode before. We know how it ends.

---

Sources worth checking before taking my word for any of this:

• American Kratom Association's Kratom Consumer Protection Act framework
• Holistic Alternative Recovery Trust statement on 7-OH
• SSDP's statement opposing federal scheduling of 7-OH
• Haven Access's research compilation
• JW Ross / Botanic Tonics background reporting

A long-time listener tired of watching this sub repeat the drug-war pattern Robert literally does episodes about.

Brandon Clarke, the Memphis Grizzly, just died (suspected OD). A month before he died, he was arrested in Arkansas for (speeding, but also) having a half pound of “Kratom” on him.

“Public figure” deaths like this have ripple effects. And of his death involves 7 at all… buh bye.

(And I was just about to move into the wholesale side of things, damnnnnit)

Hey everyone,

I’m making this post because the current state of the 7-OH (7-Hydroxymitragynine) market has reached a dangerous breaking point. While there are legitimate vendors, a significant portion of this industry is currently "making a killing" by lying directly to consumers—and it’s putting lives at risk.

The Problem: Multiple brands in the 7-OH space have been caught:

• Lying about ingredients: Using unlisted alkaloids or synthetic analogs.
• Faking Potency: Claiming 80mg–100mg while independent labs show significantly less, or in some cases, dangerously more.
• Bogus Lab Results: Using "in-house" labs or photoshopped COAs to dodge safety standards.
• Shady Sourcing: There are reports of brands bypassing seizures by using unregulated chemists in China to produce more potent, cheaper, and potentially contaminated versions of these compounds.

Why this is Dangerous: This isn't just about getting ripped off; it’s a major public safety hazard. If a consumer is used to a brand that claims 100mg but is actually only delivering 50mg, they will build a routine based on that number. If they then switch to a brand that is actually accurately dosed and take their "usual" amount, they risk a massive accidental overdose.

We are already seeing the consequences of this "7-OH epidemic" play out. If you haven't seen the reality of what an overdose looks like or the reckless way some of these "new perks" are being pushed, watch this:

[7-Hydroxymitragynine (7-OH) Overdose - PLEASE SHARE] https://youtu.be/POtY_EpTPn8

Lying about dosage and sourcing is not just dishonest—it’s reckless negligence that lands people in the hospital.

What we are doing about it: We are organizing a class-action lawsuit to hold these predatory brands accountable. If we want this industry to survive and stay legal, we have to self-regulate and remove the bad actors who prioritize profits over human safety.

How to join: If you have purchased 7-OH products from brands that have been found to have misleading labels, failed labs, or have caused adverse health events, you may be eligible to join the action.

Sign up here:https://7-oh.org/ClassActionJoin

It’s time to stop being the "guinea pigs" for brands that don't care about our health. Please share this with anyone you know in the community.

Stay safe.