u/newsChopping5

Most builds in the game tend to take scavenger basic, and use ammo efficient primaries, secondaries, or both, rather than investing further points into ammo-bag skills.

However, I was wondering how much would Scavenger aced improve ammo economy, especially on barely unsustainable/sustainable weapons like the amr-16 (non-DMR). This assumes a good KPM primary or secondary.

There tends to be a category of guns in between ammo efficient and ammo bag reliant which I often use. Additionally, ammo can be more scarce when playing with others, so co-op is one consideration. I just don’t know if scavenger aced would strongly improve weapon uptime or not to warrant the 3 skill points.

Did not post in payday builds since this doesn’t pertain to a single build.

I am very late.

Anyone have any skills to optimize a gas build? I will be using piglet and basilisk 3V with viper grenade modification. I will probably be using gas dispenser as tag team. it’s probably best to run ammo bags too so I can be even more gassy on the cops.

I want to expand my secondary smg palette, in the sense that they achieve similar goals (mentioned below) while being unique so I can add more variety to DS builds that I use for fun.

Context:
When I had no DLC and was playing on epic games years ago (from the free event), I used to use mark-10 all the time, but it's really not that enjoyable to stick on so many builds. Starting relatively new on Steam (I did not migrate) there's probably many smgs out there that I can use and not feel that I would've done better using the mark-10.

I want these smgs to be fairly good to high concealment, good/dps accuracy, and fair (not terrible) pickup. Something like a low concealment krinkov is not what I'm looking for (although I do have one for ICTV shenanigans)

Currently for this I use ak-gen 21, mark-10, tatonka, spec ops, and occasionally micro uzi.

• Ak-gen 21 can hit 27 concealment WITH 100/100 stats and good dps.
• Mark-10 is meta slave pick for a reason.
• Tatonka has good stats (80/100) with high concealment but especially high damage.
• Spec ops shreds bulldozers & tanky targets with good stats but has lower concealment (I pair it with a more concealable AR)
• Micro-uzi is just for builds that REALLY need that concealment.

I don't mean to demand anything, I was just wondering now in 2026 if anyone has had any 'sleeper picks' that have their own comparative advantage to mark-10. Perhaps the signature smg?

I like using vanillaHud plus for its enemy counter, convert hp UI, and the blue checkmark over controlled civilians in stealth, and other features such as not having to hold interact key. However, I would really prefer PocoHud 3's hp bar since it is more responsive.

I have not found a standalone mod for the hp bar found in Pocohud. Does anyone know a workaround for this? Is it okay if I just use both vanillaHud and Pocohud at the same time, or will it break?

I guess this is more so a question about if anyone has used two different HUD mods at the same time and got it to work.

I know certain damage breakpoints, such as the sniper damage values (~168 dmg zerk will 1 tap heavies to the head, ~255 dmg will 1 tap heavies to the head without zerk, ~500 dmg will 1 tap most special enemies to the head excluding healthy dozers). And if I remember, 80+ dmg weapons with zerk will 2 shot heavies anywhere on the body (useful for rifle/lmg zerk builds) Correct me if I am wrong, I don't use zerk that often.

Although 30% critical chance is inconsistent, what kind of breakpoints (base damage values) could hitting crits achieve? I'm asking this because this could be particularly useful on smg secondaries with 23 (or lower) detection risk builds. For example, a 75 damage slow firerate vs 60 damage high firerate smg? Or an 104 damage smg (though not ammo efficient.)

Edit: I am not expecting to hit crits all the time. But there might be breakpoints from landing at least a single crit on an enemy.

Context (ignore if not interested):

While many consider the mark-10 to be one of the most powerful ammo-efficient secondaries, I've killed heavy swats & light swats significantly faster with the ak-gen 21. Here are some stats on both weapons:

• Mark-10: With 24 concealment, I am able to get 84/88 accuracy & 100 stability. More importantly, the weapon deals ~60 dmg at 1000 RPM.
• AK Gen 21: With 27 concealment, I am able to get 100 accuracy & 100 stability (i copied from Succario). More importantly, the weapon deals ~75 dmg at 750 RPM.

(Modding the mark-10 further I am able to get ~62+ accuracy & 100 stability with 27 concealment.)

As you can see, the mark-10 deals slightly more DPS than the AK Gen 21, but often I can kill both non-specials & dozers very easily with the Ak Gen 21, which means there must be some breakpoints happening, or it is just something to do with accuracy.

Or if anyone has used the Spec-Ops often, I feel it kills extremely well for its strange stats (~70 damage, 952 firerate), so maybe it has to do with 60-70 damage range?

Hello,

I am making a 23 concealment akimbo smg build, with an smg secondary. I do not feel like using ammo bags, only scavenger basic. I will likely be using an aggressive build (leech or copycat).

The akimbo krinkovs have been widely known for its power, but it has poor ammo pickup (identical to akimbo cr805b). Meanwhile, the akimbo tatonkas have better stability, but most importantly better pickup, at the cost of a lower firerate. I do not see many builds involving akimbo tatonkas, so I fear that there is some hidden con to it that deters us heisters.

Ideally I should use a self-sustaining secondary smg, but my thought is that lower pickup rate --> less up-time using the krinkovs for clearing out crowds. So even if I were to use an smg, there may be instances where I must fight large crowds (composed of medics, tasers, dozers) in an open map but my akimbos are too low on ammo. (For example: Bad diesel pump spawns on Alaskan deal, or Beneath the Mountain) (Perhaps for those situations, i could use a higher accuracy smg...)

So between the two akimbos, which one would probably be better for my build? If I were to use the akimbo krinkovs, what should I use as my secondary?

For context, I tried using akimbo krinkovs and tatonka smg, but I have big ammo issues (tatonka is strong, but does not have high pickup compared to other smgs), and run dry when minigun dozers show up in flocks. Additionally, the low firerate of the tatonka secondary means I often get seriously hurt when attacking groups of shields, or a medic-heavy swat push.

Edit: I do not know if 5/7 is just leagues better than a secondary smg in this position. I was thinking akimbo krinkovs and 5/7 would need ammo bags