u/Flat_Abroad9238

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Edit: as one guy pointed out in the comments, Gojo and sukuna were at a lower level of output during the entire time Gojo fought mahoraga so I am pretty much just wrong about most of what I say here.

Ok, so in case you didn't know a Gege recently released some more stuff for Modulo (revealing that Todo is married to Takada) and apparently this included a statement about mahoraga. now I do think we should take the statement with a grain of salt because it might be a case where the initial translation to english was not precise, which has happened before.

now the statement allegedly says: Shibuya Mahoraga, Modulo Mahoraga and Sukuna's Mahoraga were all equal in strength. Shibuya and Modulo Mahoraga being equal makes sense, it confirms that taming ritual mahoraga is always the same strength and the ten shadows sorcerer cannot do something to influence this to strengthen or weaken it like a binding vow. otherwise you probably would have seen a case of "to amend this the Zenin clan head made another binding vow" to weaken mahoraga enough to tame it.

however, stating that Sukunas Mahoraga is equal to taming ritual mahoraga has massive implications. for one it might debunk a long held belief that Ten Shadows shikigami grow stronger as their user grows stronger, via the user having higher output. When sukuna summoned other shikigami they were massively stronger, and seemed to confirm that belief. now you might be able to get around this by saying that Taming ritual mahoraga is already so strong that he is equivalent to a tamed mahoraga summoned by a sukuna or gojo level sorcerer. so every other Shikigami would get a boost and Mahoraga would stay relatively similar in sukunas hands, and would actually be weaker if anyone on a lower level managed to tame him.

Now the second and more important thing is the massive upscale this gives 15 finger yujikuna and yuji's body. if the Shibuya mahoraga has equal stats to the Tamed mahoraga in shinjuku then that means Sukuna in Yuji's body had better stats than gojo even at 15 fingers (with that boost being entirely due to yujis body). During the shibuya fight in the manga continuity, Sukuna is visibly faster than mahoraga, and his punches and kicks are effective against mahoraga despite not enchancing them with blue like gojo did.

in the Shinjuku fight gojos performance against mahoraga was similar, Mahoraga did land some hits on him and did do damage but that was with Sukuna actively helping him 2 and even 3v1 gojo. Now gojo was enhancing his speed and punching power with blue so this somewhat counteracts Mahoraga needing help to fight him in hand to hand. and we do see in shinjuku that Gojos blue infused punches are more effective than yujikunas in shibuya, (there is one panel where mahoraga is barfing) however it is not by that much.

So, sukuna at 15 fingers was putting up a similar, if not better performance against Mahoraga in hand to hand than a full strength gojo who could use his technique to enhance his hand to hand with the caveat that Mahoraga was fighting gojo in a 2v1 and later a 3v1.

gojo and 20f sukuna are clearly relative in stats without gojos ct, we see this during their hand to hand whenever gojos CT is burnt out, so a 15finger sukuna should not be able to scale to him. so with all of this laid out the only conclusion we can make is that Yuji's body was such a massive boost for sukunas physical stats that it made up for the five finger difference in CE. Mahoraga also had a dominant hand to hand performance against dabura, with Dabura only turning the tide after changing his mindset and starting to rapidly evolve as a sorcerer and develop his cursed technique.

this makes some sense, Kenjaku deliberately designed yuji to have better physical stats to aid sukuna because he believed that the strength of a sorcerers body was one of the most important factors in determining their strength. he made yuji to give sukuna a boost when he reincarnated, Kenjaku did not plan on sukuna choosing another vessel because he liked their technique.

if this is true then it changes powerscaling somewhat, shibuya sukuna having equal or better physical stats to 20 finger meguna is a massive upscale for anyone who fought him while he was in yujis body. for example Jogo, him getting no-diffed by sukuna is even less embarrasing if that sukuna was at his full physical stats. this would also kind of fit with some other statements, "Five Finger Sukuna vs Jogo would too long" and "a generous estimation would put you at 8 or 9 fingers". if Yuji's body gives sukuna a greater than 1/3rd boost in stats, then Kenjakus assesment of Jogo becomes a lot more accurate since we know that "8-9finger" jogo would have had a long drawn out battle against a five finger sukuna if he was in yujis body, giving him a stat boost large enough to make him equivalent to 7-8 finger sukuna without boosting his CT strength. Kenjaku was not just misleading jogo and it was infact a reliable statement.

it would also be massively impactful for yuji. once Yuji reaches Gojo and Sukunas output and skill with reinforcement, which it seems like he did in modulo given his impressive feats with his Cursed Techniques, then he will just have better stats by default. now, it was made explicitly clear throughout the manga that Yujis base strength was very helpful to him and allowed him to compete with people far above him in terms of CE amount and output like the todo and hanami fights. in the manga continuity yuji was actually beating the grade 2 cursed spirit at the start of the series before choosing to consume the finger because Megumi told him that the only way to kill it was with CE. So Yuji getting a larger stat boost than we thought from his body should also mean that he had lower reserves and output than we thought, making his growth as a sorcerer slower and more reasonable as a result. it should be much easier for someone at a low level to gain strength than someone at a higher level.

So in conclusion, Yuji is built different.

u/Flat_Abroad9238 — 16 days ago

It has been a few days since I reposted the challenge that I am responding to: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsShips/comments/1sptypu/repost_of_u_nervousnovel2377_s_imperial_sector/  

This is going to be the second part of my response, where I start to break down what I bought in the first response: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsShips/comments/1qb3n7n/nicandra_sector_defense_force/  

With some additions and changes because I was under budget in the first post. 

I will also briefly be touching on the doctrine of my Sector Force which I intend to makemore dedicated posts about in the future. One important thing to keep in mind is that all the separate parts of the Sector Force like the Fleet, the Planetary Defense Forces (PDF) the Merchant Escort Fleet (MEF) and the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI) are all meant to operate in cooperation with each other across the sector. For example, if a convoy being guarded by detachments from the MEF gets attacked, they can send out a signal and expect reinforcements from either the Fleet or one of the PDFs depending on whichever has a unit closest to the fight.  

this part does not include the ships or starfighters purchased for other departments of the Sector Force, like the sector army, ONI, PDF and MEF which will be given a seperate post.

Another thing to note is that when in doubt I prefer to use the legends version of a ship or starfighter for things like stats, price, time of introduction and occupied area in a hangar. There are exceptions like the V-wings top speed, since the legends wookipedia article used the Battlefront II Renegade Squadron PSP game as the source for the ridiculous 75 MGLT top speed they gave the V-wing. Renegade Squadron is not a reliable source for ship statistics; this is the same game that had the droid TRI-fighter reach speeds over 225 MGLTs and be piloted by B-1 battle droids instead of just being a droid like it is in every other piece of lore. 

The Fleet: 

Total:  6,550,400,000 credits out of an original budget of 7.2 billion

2 interdictor Star Destroyers: 350,000,000              (175,000,000 each) 

4 Imperial Star Destroyers: 600,000,000                   (150.000,000 each) 

6 Victory II Star Destroyers: 300,000,000                   (50,000,000 each) 

4 Vindicator Cruisers: 41,600,000                                 (10,400,000 each) 

10 Imperial Dreadnought cruisers: 72,000,000       (7,200,000 each) 

108 Acclamators: 3,132,000.000                                   (29,000,000 each) 

92 DP-20 corvettes: 441,600,000                                   (4,800,000 each)  

1 Interdictor heavy cruisers: 15,400,000                     (15,400,000 each) 

496 TIE/IN interceptors: 37,200,000                              (75,000 each) 

4,752 V-wing interceptors: 487,080,000                      (102,500 each) 

7,776 used ARC-170s: 544,320,000                                (70,000 each) 

4,176 XG-1 Starwings: 522,000,000                                (125,000 each) 

48 TIE/br boarding craft: 7,200,000                                 (150,000 each) 

 

Fleet breakdown:  

Task Forces one and two: 777,600,000 credits each 

1 Interdictor Star Destroyer: 175,000,000 credits 

2 Imperial Star Destroyers: 300,000,000 credits  

4 Acclamator Carriers:         116,000,000 credits 

12 DP-20 Gunships:               57,600,000 credits  

Task Force 1 and 2 Fighters:  

Interdictor Star Destroyer: 16 TIE/IN Interceptors (Entered increased production this year) 

2x ISD: 60 TIE/IN and 12 TIE/br boarding craft  

4x Acclamator:  144 V-wings, 72 ARC-170s, 72 XG-1 Starwings  OA 52,267.68m^2 

Total per task force: 136 TIE/IN: 10,200,000credits, 24 TIE/br: 3,600,000, 576 V-wings: 59,040,000 , 288 used ARC-170s: 20,160,000, 288 XG-1 Starwings: 36,000,000. 

  • Every ship has a top speed equal to or greater than 60MGLTs, making them faster than the majority of pirate or rebel capital ships and converted civilian vessels. The higher speed is actually the primary reason why I chose to use an Interdictor Star Destroyer rather than an Interdictor cruiser because the later is slower and less manueverable due to the higher proportional energy requirements of its gravity wells compared to the ISD.
  • meant to be fast Task Forces assigned with hunting enemy space units above a certain threat level once detected. In normal "peacetime" conditions one would be patrolling visibly throughout the sector, moving at high speeds to visit as many member systems as possible so that the civilians could see the ISDs and have the accompanying morale effect dictated by the Tarkin Doctrine. the other would be kept hidden in uninhabited systems around the sector in an attempt to create the impression for the sectors civilian population and rebel intelligence that the sector fleet only had one such task force.
  • in the current extraordinary circumstances post Yavin, both Task Forces will be immediately assigned to hunt down Commodore Arctans rogue squadron and the large rebel cell that are currently loose in the Nicandra sector.
  • V-wings should be a more effective space superiority fighter than TIE/Lns. 
  • The TIE/INs are here because the Star Destroyers hangar systems are specially designed to accommodate TIE style craft, otherwise I would have bought more V-wings.  
  • The TIE style fighters do have the benefit of much lower cost to operate and far lower maintenance requirements so using them as our go to combat air patrol squadrons would probably be more efficient than using v-wings. If we are going to have something in the air at all times it only makes sense to use whatever has the lowest cost of operation. 
  • ARC-170s are mainly here for reconnaissance, but they are decent fighters and great bombers if the admiral in command decides to have them join the XG-1s in attacking enemy capital ships.  
  • XG-1 starwings are very capable bombers; 1 squadron took out an MC-40 in lore. 24 squadrons of them backed up by 24 squads of ARC-170s have the firepower to knock out a large group of capital ships if the V-wings take on enemy starfighters.  
  • TIE/br boarding shuttles are for boarding disabled vessels to capture prisoners and computers for ONI to process and use to find more rebels.

 

Task Force 3: 

2 Victory II Star Destroyers: DispatcherExasperated: 100,000,000 

4 Vindicator cruisers: 41,600,000 

8 DP-20 Corvettes: 38,400,000 

144 TIE/IN: 10,800,000 (24 on each VSDII and 24 on each vindicator) 

  • Permanent defensive fleet for the sector’s capital planet’s system. 
  • Meant to be supported by starfighters and bombers stationed at an airbase on the capital planet in the event that an enemy fleet invades the system. This is one of the reasons why this fleet has less emphasis on carrying capacity.  
  • Meant to be supported by whatever independent Acclamators and DP-20 gunships happen to be in the capital system for resupply at orbital stations when the system is attacked.  
  • Meant to be supported by Task Force 4 which is stationed in the capital system when not actively deployed. 
  • The four Vindicator cruisers were selected to be part of the home fleet partly due to the Moffs personal like of the class from his long prior captaincy of the Needle
  • The VSDII flagship of this task force, the Dispatcher, is also the flagship of Moff Gov E’nor and is temporarily serving as his center of government and place of residence. This is because he is too paranoid to step foot on his sectors capital planet, and the Moff's palace, while the Pheonix Shard rebel cell that killed his predecessor is still active. The Moff is taking his personal security extremely seriously, and the Dispatcher has been effectively sealed in orbit of the capital planet with no shuttles or freighters being allowed to directly land on or dock with the ship. instead supplies and important people are forced to land on the Exasperated, the other VSD in the home fleet, before any people or cargo are rigorously searched again before being transferred to the Dispatcher by having the second VSD directly dock with the flagship. The Moff's fear of assassination continues to worsen as he becomes more and more convinced that Pheonix Shard harbors a former Jedi, fueling his insistence on keeping a personal guard of 8 reprogrammed Magnaguards and 24 commando droids armed with scatterguns, sonic grenades and flamethrowers in addition to the Death Troopers that the Empire already provided him.

  

Task Force 4: 

1 interdictor cruiser: 15,400,000 

4 Victory II Star Destroyers: 200,000,000 

10 Dreadnought class heavy cruisers: 72,000,000 

-attached acclamators when deployed: typically, 20-30 

-attached DP-20 corvettess when deployed: typically, 20-40 

  • This task force is meant to be deployed for large scale battles against fixed targets like a planet for which speed is less relevant. Cost effective durability and firepower for a head-to-head fight are the focus of this task force.  
  • Dreadnoughts are both cheaper and more durable than vindicators and are meant to be the frontline of this task force, hopefully drawing enemy fire away from the Victory IIs and acclamators which will be the bulk of Task Force 4’s dps. 
  • An interdictor cruiser is far cheaper than the star destroyer variant and speed is less important to this fleet so using one of them to prevent enemy survivors from fleeing is more cost effective. 
  • In normal circumstances, this Task Force’s ships would be kept in the sectors capital system where they could also contribute to the defense of said system. However, with the extraordinary circumstances our sector finds itself in post Yavin, Task Force 4 is immediately going to be mobilized and sent to seize control of the space around the Sornil Free Republic’s capital planet.  
  • When deployed like this the cruisers and star destroyers of Task Force 4 will be given an appropriate number of DP-20 corvettes and acclamators to make Task Force 4 into a proper balanced fleet.  
  • For the Sornil campaign Task Force 4 will receive 25 acclamators and 30 DP-20 corvettes before being sent out to invade the Sornil System.

 

Independent ships:  

100 independent Acclamators:2,900,000,000  (29,000,000 each) 

Each carrying: 36 v-wings, 72 used ARC-170s, 36 XG-1 starwings 

3,600 V-wings: 369,000,000 (102,500 each) 

7,200 ARC-170s: 504,000,000 

3,600 XG-1 Starwings: 450,000,000 (125,000 each) 

60 independent DP-20 corvettes: 288,000,000  (4,800,000 each) 

Task force one and two are permanent fast task forces kept ready to be sent into the sector in pursuit of enemy space units that justify the deployment of Imperial Star Destroyers. Imperial Star Destroyers overmatch just about any starship that an enemy of the empire can field, to the point that they should be treated more like battlecruisers in this environment than standard capital ships. In 1ABY there are almost no starships in the galaxy that can challenge an ISD which aren’t in imperial hands, and there are none in our sector other than a rogue ISD, so keeping them was mainly as a contingency for if the rebels deployed an MC-80 to our sector. 

In the end, I decided to deploy them in pairs, which would pretty much eliminate any chance of our ISDs ever getting into an even fight. The chances of the rebels deploying more than one MC-80 to our sector are slim, and we know that Commodore Arctan isn’t going to be getting any reinforcements. And of course I made two of these task forces for redundancy, just in case. In the scenario, we start with TF One going after Commodore Arctans Rogue Squadron and TF Two going after the main rebel fleet.  

TF 3 is the home fleet for our sectors capital system and in normal circumstance both it and TF 4 would be stationed there together where they would recieve fighter support from both the capital worlds PDF and whatever miscelaneous ships happened to be in system.

in the scenario however, task force 4 is immediately going to be given acclamators and corvettes to make it battle ready before being sent out after the Sornil Free Republic.

a bunch of the other DP-20 Corvettes are going to be attached to other tasks immediately like accompanying the army to provide orbital bombardment support for Operation Latifundia on Hellia.

the remaining Independent Acclamators will continue to perform their usual tasks, patrol around the parts of the sector labled as "civilized space" and respond to distress calls or sightings of enemy forces reported by ONI. each individual Acclamator has enough firepower when combined with its starfighters to handle most threats by itself or cause enough damage that the survivors could be taken out by a second Acclamator.

u/Flat_Abroad9238 — 18 days ago