u/BusDriver341

The one thing I wish I did different

I started with learning how to read and write, which I assume is the case for 90-95% of learners. The rare occasion in which you find this subreddit before you start learning, there's a chance you start with comprehensible input first.

Most people probably start learning, then they seek support/community then they find this subreddit. But there's also a few who finds this subreddit first (like you can see in some of the latest posts on this sub).

Either way, the thing I wish I did different is to "really" learn how to read and write. Yes, I started with the script, but I never really learned it. I put it up to faith that it would eventually stick (BIG MISTAKE). I looked at words, tried to learn them, read, looked a lot. Used my cheat sheet, etc. This is how people go years without really learning it.

That was such a big mistake. There's so much boilerplate shit you just have memorize and learn super well before you can even start. Memorize the **** out of that shit!

What I should have done is that I should've just put it all into Anki. Everything. All the consonants, all the vowels, all the silent haaw heep combination, the tones, consonant cluters, smooth clusters, irregular clusters, regular clusters. Everything. You often hear there's 44 consonants and 32 vowels, but in my deck I have 60-70 vowels. It's actually not trivial to count the number of vowels in Thai. Some of it is logic with the smoothness of yaaw yaak and waaw waen. For me specifically, I want every combination and instant recognition. I don't even want to think. It should be fully automatic.

That is my recommendation. The full deck is gonna be in the range of 150-200 cards, will take you a few weeks to a few months to learn super well. But don't bother trying to read or do anything else with the script while you doing this. If you do 5-10 cards a day this will take you less than 10 minutes a day including reviews piling up. Use time and sleep and spaced repetition as your advantage. Don't try to cram this all in one day unless you wanna waste your time. Learning Thai is hard and for most people it's gonna be a life-time committment. You NEVER EVER suspend this deck btw. Maybe you could if you get to an upper intermediate level and you get enough exposure to Thai everyday.

The one thing you could actually do while you let time do it's thing with with the script (the deck above) is that you can start learning words, or start listening to comprehensible input. Again, don't even bother trying to read before it's all locked in from the previous step (unless you wanna waste your time). Start learning vocab, every now and then you'll recognize stuff from the deck and it will reinforce it even better from looking at the script. Or you could just do comprehensible input while waiting for the script to become automatic. Once it's automatic, you start reading syllables, words, and eventually sentences (start with a generator that splits the sentence), then eventually move on to sentences with no spaces.

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u/BusDriver341 — 1 day ago

Thai Tones and Pitch Contours

I'm a bit confused about the pitch contours of the different Thai tones, seems to be a bit conflicting information out there, specifically about the rising and falling tones.

So for the sake of this, imagine you have the numbers 1-5 to measure pitch. 1 is low tone/low pitch, and 5 is high tone/high pitch.

So to take an example, mid tone starts at 3 and ends at 3 for the entire length of the syllable (this is your normal speaking voice). (I've actually seen some sources say that mid tones actually goes a bit lower towards the end of the syllable? Down to like a 2.5 or 2.

Either way, so back to the rising tone. People say that the way to do the rising tone is kinda like saying "huh? ". Try to hum it. That is going to be a rising tone. For example, this is a rising tone word (plug this into google translate and listen) หาย.

Youtubers like BananaThai says that the pitch contour of a rising tone starts at 1 and ends at 5. She has a graph in this video for all the tones https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5POKltn6HqU

But if you go to 1 minute 20 seconds into this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4BUE9i6N7q0 if you can't watch it, basically what is happening is that he's saying หมา (maa) with a rising tone, and doing a U-shape with his finger, kinda indicating the pitch contours I guess? Either way, this is more in line with how I hear rising tone. Like the way I hear and say "Huh?" doesn't start at 1 and goes to 5 like in the BananaThai video, it starts around mid tone, 3 or 2, goes a bit down, and then goes up to 5?

Likewise with the falling tone. So what is the correct way to do it? Also, I think during fast normal day speech, I wouldn't be surprised if it sounds like a rising tone word starts at 1 and goes to 5, but if you play it down, reduce the speed, or ask someone to speak slowly, I really hear it going down a bit first before rising. But I might be hearing completely wrong.

u/BusDriver341 — 5 days ago

Probably not the right subreddit to ask, but I feel like there's a lot of people knowledge about Thailand here. Impossible to get a single post through on r/Thailand and r/bangkok aswell (just gets stopped by automod).

I have a Thai friend that is apparently stuck in marriage prison.

She is married to an American, but want to get divorced. She never even been to the US. They haven't talked for years. No kids, no assets, no nothing together. She don't want anything from him except to get divorced. Should be a super simple case, right?

Apparently it's close to impossible for the average Thai person on an average Thai salary. The problem is that the guy doesn't respond to anything. He won't do anything that actually requires him to do anything (sign anything, go somewhere, etc). Just completely non-responsive. But he's still alive living in the US and posting on social media.

Is there anything that can be done in this scenario except to soak several hundred of thousands of baht to get a laywer? Which is completely impossible for a Thai person on an average salary to save up? Is she just stuck in marriage prison for life now?

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u/BusDriver341 — 7 days ago

My goal is to reach a point where I could just say a single word or a syllable with no context and being understood. Is that realistic?

If a Thai person says a word (no context) to another Thai person, will they always understand/hear correctly what the person said? Or could they mistake a "dog" for one of the other maa's? (overly simplistic example).

I'd imagine if someone that is fluent in English, but non-native, with an accent came up to you and said flour/flower or weather/whether and asked you to guess what they said (with no context whatsoever, just a single word), probability of getting it right would be in the ballpark of 60-70%.

With Thai, all the tones makes it extra challenging. There's like 5 different maa's, 5 different kao's and like 8 different long's.

Obviously the maa example above was a super simple one. None is going to confuse a dog for something else, but what about the more niche ones?

I've come to a point now where I've built up some vocab, and I know I have to use one of the "long"'s in my sentence, but I just don't remember which one, which tone. Learning how to write would be helpful for sure. If I knew how to write the "long" that I wanted to use, I could deduct the tone. That way I'd at least know which tone it is, whether I'd be able to pronounce that tone with that syllable clearly is a whole other story.

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u/BusDriver341 — 17 days ago