u/AvocadoAlternative

Even the left has largely moved on from orthodox Marxism, and why you should too

Even the left has largely moved on from orthodox Marxism, and why you should too

I am repeatedly surprised by the obsession of this sub with orthodox Marxism and Marxian economics. I don’t know why we continue to focus on writings from the mid 1800s when there’s been 150 years of history since Marx’s death (though you wouldn’t know it from this sub). Personally, I find that the most interesting critiques of capitalism come from post-Marxists. As a start, I think it would benefit everyone, socialist and capitalist, to learn about why the left largely moved away from orthodox Marxism just 50 years after his death.

This thread is meant to get across 2 messages:

  • Many socialists became disillusioned with orthodox Marxism in the interwar years. This led some thinkers to eventually develop what would become known as critical theory, which now dominates the contemporary left.  
  • Most socialists here need to get with the times and move past orthodox Marxism so we can have better conversations. I find this is especially important considering how much the character of capitalism has changed from Victorian-era industrial capitalism to modern digital capitalism. I can acknowledge Marx as a foundational thinker of socialism, but he should not be the focus on half the threads on this sub.

The easiest way to understand the schism is to step into the shoes of a socialist at the time.

The year is 1871. You’re a bright-eyed undergrad living in Germany. You’ve just finished reading the first volume of Capital by an influential writer named Karl Marx. You’re convinced this new mode of industrial capitalism that has swept through Europe has its days numbered. The [Paris Commune](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris\_Commune) is just the start. These are things you’re sure you’re going to see within your lifetime:

  • Capitalism collapsing inward from the weight of its own ineluctable drive for profit.  
  • Class consciousness emerging at grass-roots levels across all nations and creeds.  
  • Countries like Germany, France, and England transition into economies organized around socialized ownership.

  

Fast forward. The year is 1930. You’re about to turn 80. You’re still a socialist but more confused in your beliefs than you were in your youth. Your expectations did not pan out in reality:

  • Capitalism proved to be far more resilient than anyone had expected. Instead of becoming immiserated, workers won more rights, received better hours, and higher pay. You held out for the revolution, believing that it was imminent, but it never happened. In retrospect this saga would be deemed in the history books as [the crisis of Marxism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_Marxism).
  • One country did transition to socialism, but it was not the one you expected. You had expected one of the great Western powers to be the first socialist nation, but it ended up being Russia, a state that hadn’t even fully transitioned out of feudalism.
  • It also didn’t take the form you had envisioned. Lenin but especially Stalin did not seem like proletarian leaders of a socialist utopia but rather brutal dictators.  
  • Class consciousness did not overtake the workers. In fact, it seemed like people were much more willing to unite along racial and ethnic lines than class lines. German workers against French and English workers. You yourself was in your 60s when WW1 broke out.
  • The rise of fascism in Italy and Germany was the endgame of this kind of ultranationalism. This was not supposed to happen.

 

These failed expectations disappointed leftists of the time. It called into question the entire basis of Marxist theory. Socialists at the time sympathized with the Marxist project but were disillusioned with its obsession with class struggle, the relegation of culture as a societal substrate, and the rigidity of its economic determinism. Writers such as Theodor Adorno, Max Horkheimer, and Herbert Marcuse would eventually abandon orthodox Marxist altogether and go on to develop an ideology eventually associated with the Frankfurt School that we know today as critical theory.

Having the privilege of an additional 100 years of history, we know now that critical theory eventually becomes the dominant influence on contemporary leftism. 

Of course, orthodox Marxists will continue to tell everyone that we don’t truly understand Marx, but here’s the thing: even other socialists were fed up with it. When capitalists say that Marx’s predictions haven’t panned out, we’re joined in good company by people who actually believed his theories once upon a time and were disappointed in it. Or are you willing to say that Max Horkheimer doesn’t really understand Marx?

u/AvocadoAlternative — 1 day ago

How much of socialism is based on this core belief?

People deserve to be compensated proportional to the amount of time and effort they put in

I believe such a feeling is innate to human beings. Expending time and effort into a task is tiresome, as it requires calories and builds stress. People would rather be lazy, but effort is necessary to help the tribe. Therefore, the more time and effort one puts into a task, the more they deserve to be rewarded. Such a sentiment probably had evolutionary roots.

We’ve all felt this. There‘s a cosmic sense of justice when the person who works the hardest gets the biggest paycheck and inversely a sense of injustice when the person who does nothing gets paid nonetheless. In business, this is called equity theory, pioneered by J. Stacey Adams. The idea is that this ratio should be constant:

Pay (person A) / Effort (person A) = Pay (person B) / Effort (person B) = …

It turns out we’re very sensitive to imbalances in this ratio. If someone is getting paid more and doing less, it foments resentment. In a family we can tolerate that, which is why small tribes were able to live communally. However, in a system of 8 billion people, it doesn’t work so well.

The main issue is that effort is meaningless unless directed at the right tasks. Some of these tasks are easy to identify, especially for physical commodities like food production. However, as modern economies trend increasingly towards services and digital goods, what the “right tasks” are becomes much less obvious and being able to identify which tasks are the correct ones becomes a task in and of itself. Thus we begin to see the decoupling of effort and pay, which is deeply unsatisfying to us. I think this drives much of the resentment towards capitalism.

Discuss.

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u/AvocadoAlternative — 10 days ago