r/swissreptime

Someone called me a scammer for posting this rep. Patek Philippe Cubitus 5822P-001 — from a factory nobody’s heard of

the watch dropped in october 2024. nobody in the rep community was talking about a clone because nobody expected one to exist.

i source from a small workshop i’ve known for years. no public name, no catalogue, no TD listing. they build what the big factories won’t touch. this is one of those pieces.

the movement finishing through the caseback is what got people. most assumed it was real because nobody expects a Cubitus rep to exist.

happy to answer questions on the build if anyone’s curious.

everyone talks about diameter. 40mm, 41mm, 42mm. it’s also the number that tells you the least about how a watch actually wears.
made a 7-slide breakdown covering why lug to lug is the measurement that actually determines fit, the real dimensions on every major reference (Sub, GMT, Royal Oak, Nautilus, Santos), why thickness decides whether a watch goes under a cuff or sits on top of it, and a wrist size guide that maps your measurements to specific references.
the comparison on slide 2 — Royal Oak 15500 vs Sub 126610LN, both 41mm, wearing completely differently — is the one worth saving.
if you want early access to new references and batch updates before they go anywhere public, DM me the word BWC.

most people never think about the crystal until something looks off in QC photos. made a 6-slide breakdown covering how mineral glass and sapphire are actually made, what AR coating does and why it matters more than the crystal type itself, and the one cyclops detail that most reps still haven’t cracked.
the comparison table on the last slide is worth saving.

Located in Tulsa, Oklahoma, and the Dallas Fort Worth area. Send me a message if you have any questions.

most people never think about what's actually powering their superclone. the mainspring — a long ribbon of metal coiled inside a barrel — is the entire energy source for a mechanical movement. and for a long time, clone movements cut corners here.
did a 4-slide breakdown on how this specific component evolved in Dandong movements: why early clones topped out at 40–48 hours, what NIVAFLEX alloy actually is and why it matters, and how current production pushed power reserve to 60–72 hours while also fixing the accuracy drop that used to happen as the spring ran down.
the torque consistency improvement on slide 3 is the one most people miss — it's not just about hours, it's about how the watch keeps time toward the end of the reserve.

Have already had two TDs confirming this info, there have been arrests made by the police. This doesn't necessarily mean the factory will go out of business and we won't know the total scale of the raid until the smoke clears and more information comes, but this is bad news for those of you that love Audemars Piguet, Jaeger Le-Coultre (JLC)or Rolex models, as these factories were some of the best to do many models (AP Royal Oaks, JLC Master Ultra Thin, etc...)

Will keep you updated on whatever info arrives to my ears. Update 1: DukeJones, TimeUltra and some potential new TDs I'm speaking too all confirm this info as being true. Andiot (known RepTime TD) also confirms this info and has removed them from his website. Seems like that's how things are currently

I'd recently ordered a PPF Patek Philippe Nautilus 5712 from our TD Duke Jones, and sadly found the model he sent had the most common QC issue on these reps, it was a good experience because he just told me directly about the issue and accepted my RL, promising a new one in a week. Very professional of him, honestly. You can see he's been in the industry a good while, the customer service was great all the way through.

To make this sad event a learning experience for those who aren't that familiar with this model yet, I'll teach you how to look for the most common QC issues on the PPF 5712:

1: Misalignment/bending of the 12 o clock indices. This is the most common of them all. It's often not that noticeable on wrist, but it's visible on QC if the issue is present or not. As a rule of thumb, look here the first place of all before continuing with your 5712 QC. Also, check the 3, 6, and 9 markers; because the dial is "busy," these can sometimes be slightly slanted.

2: Check the Power Reserve indicator (top left side of the dial) sometimes these had an issue for the needle not moving to it's full 48h position, so while it may not be fully winded, kindly ask your TD to see if it moves as it should.

3: The "Minute Hand Jump"

This is the most notorious issue with the clone 240 movement.

The Issue: When you bump the watch or pull the crown, the minute hand may jump or "stutter" by 1–2 minutes.

QC Check: Ask your TD (Trusted Dealer) for a video where they tap the side of the watch or adjust the time to see if the hand is stable. Note that a tiny bit of play is present even on genuine models, but excessive jumping is a RL (Red Light) flag.

4: As basic as this sounds, don't forget to check the Timegrapher, while mine was perfect, the movement on these is prone to being unreliable. The clone 240 movement is beautiful but can be finicky.

The Issue: Low amplitude (anything under 230°-240° for this specific micro-rotor movement can be a bit worrying, though they naturally run lower than a Rolex clone).

Rate: +/- 5 to 10 s/d is fine.

It's a fantastic rep, and to my knowledge one of the very few that has a working Micro-Rotor as a winding mechanism. The real issue with it is the movement being a bit of a Russian roulette, without wishing to get too technical the 240 clone movement is technically derived from the Miyota architecture, which has made it have some of these 5712s die on their owners because the movement stopped working. Having spoken to many owners before making this purchase, they either had 0 issues in years of owning it, or they had to have had it repaired in the first 6 months of owning it.

To those of us that like complications and Patek watches, this is not a deterrent to not buy it, as there are no other rep watches with a working power reserve, Moonphase, small seconds and date indicator as the 5712 has done to the same fidelity to gen as this one has. The 240 movement is still the best mass produced movement for the 5712 (ACE movement is also unreliable and costs a lot more than this, on the 1000€+ price range)

Hope this post on what to look for on a 5712 rep helps any of you in your future purchases and QCs. Have a nice day everyone.💙

1. ⁠Dealer name: Ethan Watches
2. ⁠Factory name: VSF
3. ⁠Model name (& version number): Yachtmaster 40mm 126622 Rhodium dial
4. ⁠Price Paid: $460
5. ⁠Album Links:
6. ⁠Index alignment: seems good nothing out of order
7. ⁠Dial Printing: very neat imo
8. ⁠Date Wheel alignment/printing: Maybe slighting high but i think that is camera issue.
9. ⁠Hand Alignment: good
10. ⁠Bezel: smooth and no discolouration
11. ⁠Solid End Links (SELs): ok
12. ⁠Timegrapher numbers:
13. ⁠Anything else you notice: Please feel free to inform

every tick you hear from a mechanical watch is the balance wheel completing half a swing. covered what it actually does, what beat rate amplitude and beat error mean in plain language, how VSF and APS handle it in their clone calibres, and the free-sprung vs standard regulation question properly explained. the timegrapher section in slide 3 is worth saving for your next QC check. 6 slides.

Why this took so long to get right
VSF's journey with the Submariner didn't start here. It started with the 114060, then the date version, iteration after iteration — movement updates, bezel corrections, bracelet refinements, crystal upgrades. Each batch closer than the last.
The 124060 is where that decade of accumulated refinement landed. Every fix VSF made on previous batches carried forward into this reference. The watch community didn't declare it NWBIG overnight. It took years of side-by-side comparisons, forum debates, and original owners picking up VSF pieces and going quiet.
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*What NWBIG actually means*
*Not Worth Buying In Genuine*. The superclone community gives this designation to maybe a handful of references in the entire market. It means the superclone is so close to original that the case for buying the real thing — beyond ownership of the actual article — becomes genuinely difficult to make.
The VSF Submariner has held this designation longer than almost any other reference. That's not marketing. That's years of community consensus.
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*What the community found in direct comparisons:*
→ *Case marking* — VSF is correctly stamped 124060. Most other factories stamp 126610 — wrong reference entirely. Tells you everything about how seriously VSF approaches accuracy
→ *Crystal* — VSF's sapphire is clearer and produces stronger lume visibility than competitors. No blue tint under natural light
→ *Bezel action* — 120 clicks, correct resistance, correct acoustic "tick." Glidelock is smoother than any other factory tested against gen
→ *Dial* — black so deep and correctly grained it's been described as indistinguishable from gen at arm's length and on wrist
→ *Movement* — DD3230 clone. 72-hour power reserve. Correct architecture for a no-date calibre
→ *Weight* — community scale tests confirm VSF 124060 matches gen at 152–158g
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*The one honest tell:*
The rehaut — the inner ring between dial and crystal — is slightly less polished than gen under a loupe. Invisible on wrist. You need a magnifying glass and a gen side-by-side.
That's the only tell left. On a watch.