r/starcraft2coop

I just prestiged Fenix for the first time and have since gotten him up to level five. So far, in every game I've played since unlocking it, the arbiter suit has not just ignored the cooldown increase but has simply had no cooldown at all (I believe this is because the cooldown is still going down while the suit is active, and 20 is longer than 15). The rest of the prestige has affected it normally. When I hover over it it says the cooldown is 15 seconds when it should be 120 (I think it's 120 anyways, forgive me if I'm wrong).

This is incredibly strong and I am wondering if anyone knows the cause of this or if it's a known bug?

At this point i am terrified any time i see that level 1000 mastery player, there is a good chance of running into some fiend who is so bored out of his mind that he thinks up the most diabolical griefing strats. I am 400 ascension levels in and i have never seen this one before.

I just ran into some guy playing P3 stukov and everything seemed normal, but i had no idea what this guy had in store for me. We were halfway through the mission when suddenly i get a warning that my base is being attacked. I check and see 2 enemy BC's on each base and i am flabbergasted. I killed every wave why are there BC's in my base? The dude goes "Isn't that cool?" and only then do i realize i have been griefed.

I checked the replay. The guy used the Aleksander tentacles to mind control enemy BC's and then used their Tac jump on my base. The jump breaks the mind control and voila my eco is dead. How did bro find about about this and why? I haven't been able to find any info online on this strat. He must have cooked this one up himself.

P1: Frightful Fleshwelder

Advantages:

Factory and Starport no longer have tech requirements.

Mechanical combat units cost 30% less.

Automated Mitosis generates Infested Siege Tank ammunition 200% faster.

Disadvantages:

The Infested Colonist Compound does not spawn and cannot be built.

P2: Plague Warden

Advantages:

Banshees can load up to 16 Infested infantry and can launch their cargo at a ground target.

Disadvantages:

Infested Civilians have 30% reduced timed life.

P3: Lord of the Horde

Advantages:

Infested Bunkers spawn Infested Troopers 200% faster.

Disadvantages:

Infested Bunkers no longer have cargo capacity.

I really love bio Terran most of my master seasons were as bio Terran so kinda like doing it in coop. Have been messing around with Backwater Marshall prestige on Raynor and curious if you had any ideas about how to use the toolset for Brutal, Brutal+X.

Feels like nomatter how many Medics I get, they always depleted with the higher health pools. Based on this I was mulling around with the idea of not building medics at all or just a small amount to replace stim damage and replacing the armies to leverage their double health.

Also noticed that even with double health, some AI comps still provide so much AoE that even with double health, the Bio can get decimated. Mostly Siege Tank and Storm compositions seem to make bio Raynor struggle. Do you think it's still a good composition?

Buddy and I are struggling to go from hard to brutal (lvls 10 and 12 on Kerrigan and nova). Hard is way too easy for us but we cannot win brutal. Is there an easier map we can try? What about mutations on casual? Other suggestions?

Stukov is one of the few commanders that I bounced off even when doing his prestige one. Whilst Mass Diamondbacks is certainly an effective combo, I didn't find it that fun to do, so I mostly for Siege Tanks and Mobile Bunkers which is a rather expensive option to play and, in practice, feels awkward on offensive maps (since Bunkers are big).

After one match where I tried out his entire roster, I found that Brood Queens are surprisingly overpowered. They're are more versatile flying high templar. They're cheap to produce (relatively, being only 100/100 and 2 supply), have decent dps against air (when in sufficient numbers) and have absolutely amazing abilities.

Since Stukov can train multiple units at once from one building, expanding your spellcaster ball is easier and quicker than other commanders. Being able to uproot and move your structures further helps with bringing reinforcements to the field fast.

To break down their utility:

• High Movement Speed, which allows them to quickly react to threats on the battlefield.
• They're flying which means a good chunk of units can't target them
• Their Fungal Growth ability is basically a Psi Storm that reveals cloaked units and immobilizes all enemies (Amazing for dealing with masses of enemies). It even hits air!
• Their Spawn Broodlings ability is basically a faster-firing Yamato Cannon (Even down to dealing 300 damage) that also distracts enemies. It has no cooldown but costs 100 energy (Queens have a max of 200) It can make short work of hybrids before they even do one ability once you have enough queens, whilst one-tapping most regular threats like Liberators or Immortals. It can target enemy heroic units as well.
• Their Ocular Symbiote saves you the money you or your ally might spend on detection if used well. It lasts long enough for most fights/base pushes and can target any friendly units, even heroes.
• They have... surprisingly decent DPS, especially when you'll start getting them in larger numbers.
• They benefit from Armory Upgrades, as well as Mech Attack Speed Mastery!
• They combo great with practically any build and commander.

Need Burst damage against high HP enemies? Spawn Broodlings!

Need to lock enemies in place for your other AoE effects/units? Fungal Growth!

Don't have AoE and need help with swarms of enemies? Also Fungal Growth!

The Enemy has cloaked units but you don't have detectors? Ocular Symbiote! But Fungal Growth can handle that too.

As for their weaknesses:

• They are rather fragile, but that weakness can be supplemented by their abilities.
• They can't hit ground targets with their attack, but you'll often find yourself with a surplus of minerals when playing Mech Stukov so that can be covered by investing in some support marine waves or mobile bunkers. If you're not playing P1, your regular Infested Civilians can help out too.
• They're vulnerable to splash, like most of Stukov's army. Fortunately, static splash can be dodged. Targeted splash is harder to deal with sadly.
• And lastly, like all of Stukov's roster, you have no healing, which means you have to hope your ally can cover that or bleed out your troops over time.
• The guides say they have a high targeting priority but honestly, I haven't had issues with that while playing. All it takes is knowing how to move them around. I did three matches in a row with the build. Honestly, I found them to be more durable than my Mass Diamondbacks whilst being less laggy.
• Fungal Growth takes time to hit the target, this can be used to your advantage though. You can fire the ability whilst the enemy are still in their drop-pods or otherwise approaching your army.
• They need to be stationary to fire their spells, which is a bit of an issue due to their insufficient decceleration rate.
• They require more micro than other Stukov builds but I feel like they have a higher skill ceilling.
• They have no way to target structures.
• Tragically, they don't benefit from the decreased unit costs provided by P1, though that can still help make support units cheaper. They do benefit from not having to spend resources on the tech structures though. Attack upgrades can be skipped depending on build composition since a single Queen deals only 10 damage, 15 against armor.

The last one is particularly detrimental when facing objectives. You'll need to rely on your ally or other units for that. Though I would say that the amount of enemies you can clear/soften up for your ally with Queens makes up for that, to some extent.

Energy costs can be a detriment but regardless of your build, you'll need to expand your army as the game goes on.

They work pretty good even without other supporting units once you have enough of them, and they can really help you stay relevant if your ally has one of the stronger commanders like Tychus. Since Stukov struggles with mobility and quick burst damage (outside of his calldowns). It does put your into a bit more of a support role but I'd say it's pretty fun.

On large maps like Scythe of Amon you'll be struggling with mobility if using Barracks units since your creep won't spread far enough. Air units don't suffer from this issues.

A few liberators can help draw aerial attention elsewhere if you're facing AI Air builds. They can also help conserve your energy pool for threats that do matter. My first two matches were faced with Air Terran builds and my Queens didn't have many issues though.

They can complement most builds very well too, I'd say there's always a good reason to keep 3-5 around to soften the enemy. Their high mobility and nuke ability makes them very effective on Dead of Night and other defensive missions, helping you clear Spotters and other units that can stun your bunkers. Whilst Fungal Growth can help units remain trapped in your Diamondback's acid path paint.

As for early game presence, depending on what you'll be complementing your Queens with, if anything, you can uproot your barracks or factory and use Infest Structure to assist in pushing. Combined with your powerful calldowns, you shouldn't have much issue.

In spite of all that, I have not seen most Stukov players make one queen, and the few that did rarely produced more than that. May this post raise awareness to a great unit.

I had two matches in a row with the same guy, we actually failed the first mission (temple of the past) because the guy's Dehaka army of ravasaurs and like 4 hydras kept dying but I was never really watching on screen since I figured we'd just be facerolling everything and was focused on my macro, spawncamping, the usual chill stuff. Enemy comp was like protoss scout/zealot/whatever.

So I queue again and it's the same guy and I just mention that maybe he should have mixed in some more hydras to his army and he was like "yeah, weird how they kept targeting my side". Since it was the Void Thrashing mission we were on the same side of the map the whole time and as I watched his army movement I realized he was just right clicking everywhere. I told him to use attack-move instead, then watched him keep right clicking on the OTHER side of the map and I mentioned a-move. No response either time.

After the 2nd game ends in a victory, the guy asks in chat what I meant by attack-move/a-move. I told him exactly how to do it and why it's better than right click, and he was like oh I never knew, thank you very much.

So just a little story about not being toxic, trying to help other players improve with the basics, and that ooh man yeah there are some players with a LOT of time in this game who don't know the basics but ya know everyone was a noob sometime. You can get angry or you can help someone out and make the player pool better.

With the pace of the game, it seems so. I can finish most maps with a small dispatch of gateway/robo units and supplement engagements with cannon projections, all while building a few cannons at a time to keep more projections in my back pocket.

Combined with the other top bar abilities, doesn’t it just make more sense to spend resources on cannons?

So a friend and I are trying to shoot for the highest Brutal Mutation that you can do. Assuming you pick the 10 hardest mutateors that's 78 points of mutations. Managed to do 68 tonight but trying to know if we are at the upper bounds or if someone like CtG or Twotu has done 78/78.

Say your piece. I dont think P2 totally trash but it's nearly there imo. Also Stukov was cool in campaign.

I've played... hundreds(?) of coop missions, maybe a tad fewer. I'm a dedicated Karax player, and I think I've had literally every single other hero as a partner except Zeratul, so I have him a roll tonight.

He seems fine, takes a little getting used to. Am I missing something? Why've I never seen him used before?

I'm just curious, because the deal seems very onesided when the Zerg sacrifice themselves for the Protoss and Terrans, but the others don't return the favour. And I find it hard to believe that in the entirety of HOTS and LOTV, they couldn't find 2 or 3 missions with a Zerg focus

Inspired by this week's 'firewall' mutation and the recent 'specter of death' mutation we had, I thought I'd create a tier list ranking commanders on their abilities to detect cloaked/burrowed units. I will also be including any other methods commanders have of damaging invisible units even without detection.

In standard games you only have to deal with a few scattered invisible units such as ghosts (usually the most dangerous due to their nuke), banshees, wraiths, widow mines, lurkers, swarm hosts and dark templar, as well as units within the cloaking fields of arbiters and motherships. However the 'we move unseen' mutator really brings the importance of detection to the fore, and in particular commanders who have good early game detection options will be very valuable here. Detection is also important when dealing with the 'minesweeper' mutator.

In general, protoss commanders have better detection options than the other races because observers are cloaked and photon cannons can hit both air and ground units (though there are a couple of exceptions). Terran commanders generally have worse detection options than the other races because their mobile detectors typically can't deploy to extend their detection range, and tend to have a higher attack priority so can be shot down more easily by enemy fire (again there are a couple of exceptions).

Commanders get two points for each mobile detector and one point for every static detector they have. For mobile detectors, bonus points are awarded if they are cloaked, can be deployed to extend their detection range, or if they have other advantages such as an absurdly large detection range, boosts to their survivability or the ability to kill invisible units by themselves. A point will be deducted if the detector has a high target priority or is a ground unit, putting it at higher risk of being killed.

For static detectors, bonus points will be awarded for being able to attack both ground and air targets, being able to build them quickly in an emergency, the ability to teleport to different locations, and having any boosts to their survivability. A point will be deducted if the static detector has a short detection range.

Commanders with hero detectors will get an additional 4 points, with points halved if the hero's detection isn't available in the early game.

Commanders will also get additional points for each ability that can damage invisible units without detection, as long as the ability is reliable and practical to use on a regular basis - essentially, if the ability able to reliably take out a ghost that is nuking your base without wasting an important top bar.

D tier

Raynor - his orbital commands can scan anywhere on the map at the cost of 50 energy, which is equivalent to the cost of a mule which would have mined 225 minerals. That seems pretty expensive for a temporary area of static detection unless you're playing P1, but at least it can't be shot down by enemy fire. He has missile turrets for static detection, but doesn't have any other mobile detection options. The dusk wings calldown does deal 50 AoE damage to any enemy unit in its drop zone, but this isn't really a practical way of dealing with invisible units. Total: 2 points.

C tier

H&H - they have theia ravens for mobile detection and missile turrets for static detection. Ravens have a high attack priority and are relatively frail unless you have a lot of Han units providing a good significant other HP bonus. They are also expensive, even more so with P1, though P2 brings their gas cost down a bit. At least they can be cloaked when not moving though. Strike fighters can damage invisible ground units without detection. Space station reallocation can kill invisible units on contact and when it explodes, but you wouldn't use it just to take out a few invisible units. Reapers' KD8 charge can also damage invisible units without detection, but the damage is pretty minimal. Total: 4 points.

Vorazun - she has oracles for mobile detection, which are one of the worst detectors in the game as they are fragile and have one of the highest attack priorities, though at least they are cloaked and revive with emergency recall (and can kill ghosts by themselves). You can of course mind control enemy detectors to use them instead, but this isn't always practical. She has photon cannons for static detection, which you can cloak with a dark pylon. Time stop reveals cloaked units anywhere on the map, which can be useful when pushing. If you are P2 you can also use confusion or disruption web to damage invisible units, though these won't kill them outright so isn't very practical. Total: 6 points.

Swann - he has science vessels for mobile detection, which aren't great because they are the slowest mobile detector in the game, though with P3 they can teleport which is nice. They can also irradiate ghosts, which are the most dangerous cloaked units. He has spinning dizzies for static detection, which are much better than standard missile turrets, self-heal to improve survivability and can be built quickly by multiple SCVs if you need urgent detection. Thors' barrage cannon can damage invisible enemies without detection, as can concentrated beam and pulse cannon, but I don't think any of these are very practical for just taking out a few invisible units. Total: 6 points.

Alarak - he has havocs for mobile detection, which aren't great as they are ground units and fragile, though at least they are cloaked. He has photon cannons for static detection, and can overcharge them for extra damage potential and protection. Alarak's destruction wave and ascendants' psionic orb can damage invisible units without detection. Total: 7 points.

Mengsk - he has imperial witnesses for mobile detection, which you'll be building anyway because of their indoctrination ability. They are more tanky than most other mobile detectors (albeit more expensive too), and like observers and overseers they can be deployed in order to increase their vision and detection range, though they have less extended range than observers and overseers (radius 15 vs 17 when deployed). He has missile turrets for static detection, which can be built quickly by multiple labourers if you need urgent detection. Emperor's shadows can use EMP blast to reveal enemy cloaked units for 10s, and their tactical nukes can damage invisible units without detection. ESOs, contaminated strike and nuclear annihilation can also all damage invisible units without detection, but they aren't very reliable or practical for just taking out a few invisible units. Total: 7 points.

B tier

Dehaka - Dehaka himself can detect invisible units once he reaches level 5, which is great for mid-late game but isn't available in the early game - this hampers his early essence collection when 'we move unseen' is present. His leap and scorching breath abilities can damage invisible ground units without detection. He has primal wurms and greater primal wurms for static detection, and both of these can deep tunnel to any explored part of the map on a 60s cooldown. However primal wurms are expensive relative to other static defences, and also cost supply. Glevig's incendiary acid and Dakrun's brutal charge can damage invisible units without detection. Dakrun's damage reflect can target invisible enemies that are attacking him, and the same is true for tyrannozors' spiked hide gene mutation and Dehaka's damage reflect when he devours a massive unit (and P1 grants this buff to all nearby friendly units too). Ultralisks' brutal charge and tyrannozors' barrage of spikes can also damage invisible units without detection. None of these are particularly reliable ways of dealing with invisible units though. Total: 8 points.

Zagara - she has overseers for mobile detection and spore crawlers for static detection, both of which are pretty average. Bile launchers can also hit invisible ground or air units without detection. Banelings and scourge can damage invisible units if they are killed or manually detonated next to them. Zagara's baneling barrage ability can hit invisible units, and infested drop can also damage them on impact. Total: 8 points.

Abathur - he has overseers for mobile detection and spore crawlers for static detection, and can improve both of their survivability with mend. His spore crawlers can also be built very quickly with full structure morph mastery (down to 12s build time). Toxic nests will automatically target invisible ground units. Ravagers' corrosive bile can damage invisible units without detection, and work very well due to the large AoE and short cooldown. Total: 9 points.

Tychus - he has auto turrets for static detection, which do good damage but are more fragile than other static defences, and interestingly have a smaller detection range too (radius 7 rather than the standard 11 that all other commanders' static detectors have). Sirius' turrets are also detectors, and have more HP and DPS than auto turrets, as well as being easier to use. Vega, Nux and Nikara can all detect invisible units once upgraded, and Vega can mind control enemy detectors if you really want to. Tychus' shredder grenade, Cannonball's heavy impact and Nux's ultrasonic pulse can all damage invisible units without detection. Odin can damage invisible units on impact, and with the barrage/big red button abilities, but you wouldn't waste this to take out a few cloaked units. P2 is generally not recommended when dealing with the 'we move unseen' mutator, because your outlaws will be spread out and some of them won't be able to target the enemy. This means you'll likely be using one of his other, less powerful, prestiges. Total: up to 11 points if using Sirius, Vega, Nux and Nikara, though in reality you probably won't be using that combination so 9 points is probably more realistic.

A tier

Karax - he has observers for mobile detection which are one of the better mobile detection options in the game due to them being cloaked themselves and having a low attack priority, and he can improve their survivability with repair beam, shield batteries and unity barrier. Energizers can also reclaim enemy terran or protoss detectors for 2 minutes. He has photon cannons for static detection, which can be built instantly and benefit from structure health mastery and upgrades to their range and attack speed (with further buffs if you are playing P1). Orbital strike, solar lance and purifier beam can all hit invisible units without detection, though in reality orbital strike is the one you'd be using in an emergency. Total: 10 points.

Artanis - he has observers for mobile detection, and can spawn them anywhere within vision due to his level 8 talent and power field projection ability. His observers also benefit from guardian shell and shield overcharge, improving their survivability. He has photon cannons for static detection, which also benefit from shield overcharge. Psionic storm and zealots' whirlwind can damage invisible enemies without detection. Orbital strike and solar bombardment can also hit invisible enemies, and if you are P3 the unbound fanatics' automatic energy blasts can also damage them. Total: 11 points.

Fenix - he has observers for mobile detection and photon cannons for static detection. The arbiter suit also becomes a detector once upgraded, and with P1 you can have continuous uptime on the arbiter suit. Praetor suit can use thunderous charge and whirlwind to damage invisible enemies without detection. Dragoon suit can use solar cannon/solarite flare to damage invisible enemies without detection. Disruptors' purification nova can damage invisible ground units without detection, and Mojo's suppression procedure can damage cloaked air units without detection. Total: 12 points.

S tier

Nova - Nova herself can detect invisible units once upgraded, and has a variety of ways to kill them by herself, making her one of the best detectors in the game. Penetrating blast, sabotage drone and tactical nuke strike can damage invisible units even without detection. She also has type II ravens for mobile detection, which are pretty tanky but are expensive and have one of the highest attack priorities, though they are able to kill invisible units by themselves via railgun turrets or predator missiles. They can also improve their survivability using repair drones. She has missile turrets for static detection. Her ghosts can use EMP to deactivate the cloaking of enemy units for 10s. Griffin airstrike and banshees' rocket barrage can damage invisible units without detection. Total: 13 points.

Stukov - he has overseers for mobile detection, and infested missile turrets for static detection. Brood queens' ocular symbiote grants detection and increased vision range (by 5) to any friendly unit for 3 minutes for only 25 energy, essentially giving you and your ally as many mobile detectors as you desire. They can also use fungal growth to reveal and damage invisible enemies. Brood queens are so good I'll double the points they earn Stukov. Apocalisk can use burrow charge to damage invisible units without detection, and Aleksander can mind control aerial detectors for a short time. Volatile infested can damage invisible enemies if killed nearby. Infested diamondbacks' slime trail can damage invisible ground units without detection, and actually works very well at taking them out. Total: 14 points.

Kerrigan (not P1) - omega worms are one of the best detection solutions in the game. They can be spawned instantly anywhere within vision for free and are very tanky, not to mention that they can carry your whole army and generate malignant creep too. They are so good I'll double the points they earn her. Kerrigan also has access to overseers and spore crawlers for detection, but basically doesn't need them due to how good omega worms are. Her psionic shift, crushing grip and immobilisation wave abilities can also hit invisible enemies without detection, and the latter also reveals them. If you are P2, her zap attack can also hit and stun invisible units. Total: 14 points.

Stetmann (not P1) - Super Gary is a detector, and given that with a tight build order you can upgrade Gary as soon as he spawns, this makes Super Gary great for early game detection (though not super early game eg. the first attack wave on RtK). He also has mecha overseers for mobile detection and mecha spore crawlers for static detection. His overseers can be healed with green zone and move quite fast in blue zone, improving their survivability. His spore crawlers can be built anywhere (unlike other zerg commanders) and very quickly with full structure morph mastery (down to 12s build time). Gary's e-gorb, mecha lurkers' tunnel of terror algorithm, mecha corruptors' cluster busters and mecha ultralisks' vectored burrow charge can all damage invisible units without detection. Mecha banelings can also damage invisible ground units if they are killed or manually detonated next to them. Total: 14 points.

SS tier

Zeratul - he has both tesseract cannons and tesseract monoliths for static detection. His tesseract cannons are much more powerful and tanky compared to regular cannons, particularly with P2. His monoliths have a larger detection range than any other static detection structure (radius 13 vs the standard 11). Both his cannons and monoliths can be shade projected anywhere on the map within vision, to provide detection wherever it is needed. Zeratul also has Xelnaga watchers, which are cloaked just like standard observers but have an obscene vision and detection radius one you get the 3rd artifact fragment - 17 when mobile, 25.5 when deployed in surveillance mode (more than any other unit in the game). This makes them one of the best detection options in all of coop. Zeratul's shadow cleave and void templar's void fury blink can damage invisible units without detection. The abrogator's purification nova and avatar of form's psionic gale ability can also damage invisible units without detection, though they need to be manually cast on them. Total: 16 points.

Let me know your thoughts! Have I missed anything or under/over-rated any commanders?

I exclusively play on Hard difficulty, I never go brutal or higher (Mainly cause I dont like Quing for brutal with randos)

How do ya'll build up your economy & structures early game? Generally speaking, not for any specific commander, but I guess tips for protoss or zerg if you wanna throw them out (I never play terran)

What I have been doing for years is I prioritize on maxxing my economy (Max drones/probes for minerals and gas)

I always keep 1 or 2 probes/drones in the build Que, my nexus/hive is never -not- making them (Till maxed out). If I have extra resources, (Like a spare 150 minerals) I'll build my first gateway (Or 200 for spawning pool). Keep building 1 or 2 probes/drones at a time and whenever I have enough resources for the next structure, I build it. Economy is main priority, structures are secondary priority.

Am I over-prioritizing on economy? Should I settle for a lesser early game economy so to make structures & units earlier? If so what's the sweet spot of # of probes/drones on minerals & vespine?

plz & ty fellow commanders