r/schoolforgoodandevil

Since the algorithm has sensed my interests shift, it started recommending me a host of tiktoks posted from Soman's account in which he compares Young World to SGE. I am confused by this comparison because the plot-- a seventeen-year-old appointed as president who later becomes a prime suspect for a murder case-- has absolutely nothing to do with SGE.

Don't get me wrong, it sounds really cool (I ordered a copy of my own and am anxiously awaiting its arrival.) but it's not giving SGE.

There was a video in particular about writing the "new" SGE and was promptly followed by the text "just kidding." Or something like that. And it strangely ground my nerves. Maybe it's because I've been going through it and have been feeling #sensitive lately. (I've been listening to the audiobooks while using hot compressions on my eyes. Therapeutic until OTK. I was too sad to lie supine with tears trickling down either sides of my face.)

Anyway, theatrics aside, has anyone here read it or is planning on reading it?

What do you think?

I might post my thoughts on here, but I'm not sure, as this sub is for SGE and not for Soman's works. But also there is no page dedicated to ALL of Soman's works, so I don't know.

While their dynamic is certainly better in the second trilogy, (loved 'Someday My Weasel Will Come') I still don't get it.

Hort was honestly really creepy and pushy, and the text made it seem like it was for comedic flair, and Sophie was horrible back to him (Granted, Sophie was horrible to basically every single character in the series including her dearest Aggie) so their chemistry just seems forced?

Like, what exactly made Sophie realize she liked Hort?

I'm not done with OTK, so maybe I'm going to find out soon.

It seems that Nicola is used as a device to expedite their relationship. (The 'I didn't realize until it was gone trope') I'm not sure how I feel about that, because if done well, I am generally okay with it. But Hort seems like he's using Nicola as a rebound, and clearly still likes Sophie.

There's no character development to be seen, unfortunately.

We don't get much of Hophie, so I'm curious. To those who enjoy the ship, may I ask why?

Drop some of your favorite scenes, too if you can. I'm going to reread anyway, so.

Just finished reading OTK, and while I did not cry as much as I did the first time I finished the series, baby Tedros nearly had me in tears. (He did actually make me cry with "When does the hurt go away?" But I'm trying to preserve some dignity wherever I can)

The book is wrought with emotion. Knowing how it ends does not sever the impact in the slightest.

For anyone who hasn't finished the series yet (why are you reading this? you're spoiling for yourself, but you do you queen) I highly recommend you do.

Tedros was at times sexist and insufferable with lines like "Only women would something something" about convincing Japeth through Aric's ghost to stop the tournament. And also his odd gripes with Agatha taking the lead (when it doesn't particularly ruin plans for him.) and says things like "princesses should follow their princes" or whatever, but he had a LOT of character development.

At times I was kind of gagged, like damn, he really did that.

I don't remember thinking Tedros was very loyal in the first trilogy (Was obsessed with Sophie at one point even though he was dating Agatha. Filip cast a pall in their relationship.) I remember cringing when he insisted on rescuing Sophie from Rafal in book 3. He would find it funny whenever anyone insinuated Agatha was ugly. (The interesting kids thing pissed me off so much I still remember it) I actually thought he sucked and that Agatha deserved better.

But then Camelot Years happened.

It was like he was partially lobotomized.

What a sweet little guy. (Not really.)

Here are some of my favorite moments:

1. Tedros and Tink. (RIP queen. I hope you get your kisses in fairy heaven, girl) "Follow Agatha and keep her safe. The moment she's in trouble, send a flare. Understood?" We love a protective king. (Even though Agatha was mostly ok without him. It's the thought that counts <3)

2. Tedros and baby Merlin. I did not think Tedros had the emotional maturity to pick the baby up and burp him himself. Color me shocked. "The baby belched softly, wrapping a tiny hand around Tedros' thumb and the other around Agatha's. Princess and prince couldn't help but smile at each other." (Was it absurd how Merlin was a baby for like three quarters of the book? Yes. Very. But was it entertaining? Yes. Very. Very much so.)

3. Agatha's faux pas. "Listen to me, Agatha. I will never hurt you. Never. I will fight until my last breath to keep you safe." I was like okaaaayyyy. Bare minimum. But given the situation was kill her and be king, don't kill her or die yourself and all your friends too, it takes a lotta lovin' for you to refuse to kill someone in that kind of scenario. I mean, think about it: Your fiance' who said in the previous book you lowkey aren't that great to her best friend. And when you try to be great she sort of screws it up accidentally and now you have to kill her even though you don't want to. But you have to. What do you in that situation? Don't ask me lol. Me and Tedros would be operating differently that's all I have to say about that. (I'm sorry Agatha. For real though)

4. "Trust is the way, remember?" While stroking Agatha's hair. HELLO?? I went hard for Tagatha before but I mostly was blinded by the writing. I didn't even like Tedros that much. I'm sorry I wasn't familiar with your game. It's like, an objectively shitty situation to be put in, but he loved her so much he couldn't even be angry. Makes one think...

5. Whole cave scene. All of it. "For a split second, Tedros wanted to ask the genie what was happening to Agatha... Then stopped himself." "What would Agatha do? Tedros felt himself smile."

6. Tedros holding Agatha in place. Agatha holding Tedros in place.

7. The proposal?? Okay, I didn't know you had that in you Tedros. I loved this proposal scene so much I posted a fic about the elongated version.

Ok. I think you get it. Mans all grown up now, or whatever.

Agatha was more passive in this book, and I didn't like the message about her being a control-freak. Girlie is just anxious (I understand you, Agatha! You would have loved Prozac and propranolol) and used to people failing her, for real. I would have liked to see a different approach to how this was handled, like Agatha easing up and Tedros reassuring her instead of stepping down because this was "Tedros' quest."

I also feel that the books were more concerned about a shocking ending. (Tedros could have told Agatha to take the blood-soaked fabric from Japeth, certainly sparing the poor girl that heart attack) Or Merlin dying (Made mostly no sense to me even though it had been foreshadowed since QFG "When the work is done.") since I personally think it would have been more fulfilling ending to just having him serve as council for Tedros and Agatha. But in the same vein, it implies that Tedros and Agatha no longer need that council, and that they would do just fine.

So I am conflicted about that.

What I am not conflicted by (and what I had always thought since finishing the series) is how abrupt the ending seemed. It's implied that Tedros and Agatha married, but what are the logistics of that? Do they just stuff Merlin in a body bag and say their vows while he begins decomposing in a library? Do they announce it at the afterparty? "Hey guys, thanks for coming over. Love the gifts. By the way, Merlin, the greatest Wizard who ever lived, has died. And since we love him so much we've opted for a dual event: Wedding and Funeral in one fell swoop! Round of applause for the bride. Once a graveyard girl, always a graveyard girl amirite?"

Like, c'monnnnn, why would we do Merlin like that gang? :(

Hort and Sophie continue to confuse the neurons working on my literary skills. I still don't get it.

I mean it's nice, I guess, but it just felt like it was rushed.

This book was definitely better than QFG (my mortal enemy) but does not top ACOT, unfortunately (even with the wedding and proposal, hah!)

That being said, I am officially back at the restaurant ordering two sides of Teddy fries and an Agatha sandwich.

Three years ago, I had a psychotic obsession with the third trilogy. It was actually the only thing I thought about. At some point, I decided to take the burden up myself and write it. Only, I was painfully amateurish and couldn't actually do it.

Three years later I can tell you nothing changed about the situation. I still suck. I still want to write the third trilogy.

I actually have a pretty solid idea for three (yes, one two and THRRREEEE) books which introduce a lot of new concepts, locations and other fun stuff. It was actually so novel my sister said I might as well just write my own characters and publish my own trilogy (I disagree with that notion completely. Fanfiction should always remain as fanfiction.)

Honestly, I can't tell if she was trying to dissuade me or encourage me to write it.

In any case, I plan on writing it once exams are over and I no longer have to deal with metabolic pathways frying my brain. (Yeah, I picked finals season to reread my all-time-favorite series ever.) I don't think I'm going to post the first chapter immediately after I write it and will instead opt for writing the whole book first, editing and yada yada and then posting it probably on ao3.

I might post some updates here, depending on how it goes. If anyone is interested, of course. (But also I don't want to spoil anything lol.)

If you made it this far, I salute you for enduring my rambles. Here's a cookie.

Love u.

Looking back, idk how I was reading this with a straight face at 12 years old. I would go crazy if read a golden goose's mind and then it died. Same if magical fish turned into a girl, then died, then multiple animals start chasing me!

TW: Death, mourning.

This is a a follow-up post to my previous where I vented about how much I disliked QFG, and how it left me wanting for so much more.

I almost didn't want to pick up the rest of series, somehow convinced that I had been duped by nostalgia. That I had remembered it was much better than it actually was.

Thankfully, I started reading ACOT right after I made that post.

Saying I could not put the book down after I started reading would not even begin to express how sucked in I was after the turn of each page. Even years after reading the book, even after after having some knowledge of what was coming next, I still felt curious. I still wanted to know more.

It was either that eagerness which kept me reading, or the the fact I knew I was getting closer and closer to "What Makes Your Heart Beat?"

The first time I had read that chapter was at an oddly relevant moment in my life.

I had just turned fifteen.

My grandma just died.

I remember my then kitten chasing speckles in the air, oblivious to the mourners coming in and out of the house, his tiny paws grabbing at absolutely nothing.

I used to like watching him for some reason. Maybe because he was so stupid for sweeping at imaginary prey. Or maybe I just had fun playing pretend with him, conjuring up the shapes of something a kitten his size couldn't possibly injure, let alone kill and capture.

A squealing rat from the gutters.

A garden lizard.

A wandering squirrel going the wrong way.

But that day, watching him made me feel even sadder, because having a bit of sport would mean having to think. And having to think would bring me to bad thoughts somehow. An image of a nonexistent rodent would somehow turn into a casket, its frame perfectly hollowed to fit a certain somebody I was avoiding the mere mention of.

It was hard, given the visitors lingering around the living room and the porch weren't coming in to admire the furniture or entertain themselves with a cat I had adopted three months ago.

They were here to tell me how sorry they were, as if that did something.

Why be sorry when it was always going to happen? (I told myself that so I wouldn't cry.)

Obviously, my fifteen-year-old self didn't have that kind of cognition and I simply glowered at these people who were just trying to do the right thing.

The rest of that evening was a blur, but I remember somehow managing to sneak past our guests and upstairs to my bedroom.

ACOT was just splayed there on my desk, forgotten for days, a bookmark slitting it nearly halfway.

I can't tell you what was occurring inside my teenage mind then. Looking back, this sort of occasion wouldn't be the type to make you want to casually pick up where you left off in a book and keep reading. For better or worse, however, I went back to reading the book.

Maybe I just wanted to distract myself. If I can fill my head with enough words and pictures, I wouldn't have enough room in it to confront the loud and obvious.

What a strange coincidence it was, that I had left "What Makes Your Heart Beat?" for my grandma's funeral. I didn't know that the chapter would be grappling with death. I wouldn't have read it if I knew it had.

I was making hopeful guesses that Tedros and his friends would miss the execution, a high note to end this miserable day.

At first, I was annoyed by the change in point of view (I was never one for first POV books) but seeing it was either reading this chapter or going back downstairs to socialize it was obvious what my choice would be.

When I finished reading, I thought I would be sad.

One of my favorite characters in the series had just died, just like my grandmother did.

But even though I had been crying for the first time since Grandma died, I didn't feel sad.

Clarissa knew her time was coming, and she used the last of it to cast a meaningful change. To save her students.

I can't say my grandmother did something as fantastical, but she did leave me with a parting message.

She told me to live. At first, I didn't understand. I am not living by choice, it's just something you keep doing until you can't do it anymore. I figured she was telling me to be healthy and not croak too early.

Easy enough.

Just live.

Make friends, find things you love, laugh and smile and cry and love and hate and whatever people do when they are living and not dead.

But I didn't even let myself cry. I didn't even let myself feel sad.

I remember glancing back at the last page, imagining Clarissa soaring higher to meet with her best friend (maybe more intimate, actually).

I don't really know what I believe happens to us after we die, but I had hoped it was something like this.

Something serene like gently letting go to meet with peace on the other side.

I imagined my grandmother having the peace, finally being freed from her aged and pained body. Youthful at last.

This chapter in particular, could be the highlight of this book or the series even, for just that slight bit of comfort it gave me.

I think it is so funny because one of my biggest problem with the previous installment was about how it handled grief and death. This chapter alone does a better job expressing death than anything I read in this series, at least.

Even with preference for third person, the change in perspective didn't bother me at all. It felt intimate, almost real, to read Clarissa Dovey's thoughts through her speech.

For my actual thoughts on the book:

It is definitely as good as I remember, maybe even more. I knew I had a reason to why I loved 'Camelot Years' more, and I am glad I didn't let the oddly slow pace of QFG stop me from continuing the second trilogy (which I now will definitely do) and reading ACOT.

The writing is rich and evocative, but as is in all of Soman's work. Most notably, I enjoyed how feelings were expressed in this book. It's hard to make grief and death seem happy. I suspect it was why Soman chose to adopt first person for Dovey's chapter.

The pace picks up excellently. Not too fast or slow. "Just right," in Goldilocks' words. (We are in a fairytale after all. But honestly, I'm not sure I like Goldilocks.)

Rhian is as abominable as ever and my opinions of Sophie have not changed since my last post. (She's brilliant in this trilogy so far) I enjoyed her interactions with Hort, too. I remember not really caring about Hophie, but that was clearly an amateur's mistake. These two are great.

I was already thinking of something I could write in a fanfic. I might entertain that thought soon.

I was wrong about Agatha being passive, and I enjoyed her the most here. Aja and Valentina are hilarious.

This book kicked laughs out of me in a way QFG failed to do and I think I looked ridiculous to anyone who was watching.

I am going to probably terrorize this subreddit with more of my thoughts and opinions once I'm done reading this book and OTK ( if the mood takes me, I might reread the original series).

If you've read along this far, thank you! And do yourself a favor and pick this book up and reread it if you haven't already.

It has been a little over three years since I read the series or consumed any media concerning it so you'll have to give me some grace T^T

I had some free time and had a reading slump so I decided to read the 'Camelot Years' books first because I remember liking them better.

God, I do NOT remember QFG being so hard to get through.

I don't know where to start. The book is alright in the beginning but the pace starts lag behind. Tedros and Agatha are strange (I remember they had a different problem after each book but it was getting stale) and their dynamic left me confused most of the time. Agatha clearly thinks Tedros is an idiot, but insists that she's just trying to do the right thing and that she believed in him regardless. Tedros on the other hand, IS an idiot. It took him six months to realize trying to forcefully jerk Excalibur from the stone wouldn't work? But oddly, his character seemed written more convincingly than Agatha. At least Tedros' reluctance to act is understandable (when he mucked up the first time because of his impulsive behavior) Agatha, I rarely understood her. Is she acting out of fear for his safety? Or is she acting because she thinks he can't do it? She takes initiative, but her actions make her almost irrelevant. It is almost like we are getting groomed to see her removed from the active picture. 'To get used to it', so to speak.

Another thing I don't understand is Chaddick. He is the character whose shadow looms over this plot; the haunting narrative. But he isn't even spared a proper story. Chaddick being the guy to be the smart one, the one unravels the snake's plans sort of makes no sense either. (Isn't he the same boy singing about fraternity in book 2? The same one making jokes about Rapunzel in book 1? The guy always playing rugby with Tedros? That boy? The same one?)

I would have chalked this up to a reasonable timeskip. But there IS no timeskip. (Tedros is crowned one day after the battle against the school master). So why would Chaddick suddenly wise up, while the rest of the cast is relatively unchanged?

We spend so much time speaking about this snake and his attacks (which are basically all the same things.) it borders on redundant. If the snake's chapters/encounters were cut by half and replaced with some background on Chaddick (More chapters in his point of view. Maybe a flashback to him receiving his quest, maybe that changes something in him and he's suddenly like 'i wanna do this right' or maybe he wasn't THAT smart and just stumbled on some information accidentally.) I would have also liked more chapters on Chaddick, so that we could at LEAST care a little bit about him.

There are also glaring issues with pacing and the timeline being chopped. Tedros and Agatha and everyone had six months. Six months of unwritten events. You're telling me those were spent doing nothing? They are very busy with their quests. Yes, but what were they doing? Maybe we could have gotten Chaddick's sporadic character development by reading about him questing to reach Avalon. But no, we just HAD to know that the Snake was attacking everyone and that Tedros was doing nothing about it and read through it over and over again.

R.I.P Chaddick. It's sad and shocking that you're not with us, but I'm not sure I care.

For someone so important, you'd think speaking about him would stir the characters or darken the tone slightly. But aside from the faux funeral segment with Sophie and the others, (Tedros notably not present), nobody seems to mourn the guy.

This is another thing which frustrated me while reading this. I mean, at some point it had me thinking: "I want what these people are smoking!"

Because they really are out here questing with zero fucks, the only thing driving them to keep going is self-preservation (which is VALID, but gets ridiculous when it is everyone's goal 24/7)

When Chaddick died and no one cared, I was like "Well, maybe Chaddick is as insignificant as I think he is because no one seems to really care that much."

But then, Lancelot died.

And I remember, even three years ago when I read this, I had the same thoughts.

Lancelot, Tedros' supposed 'father-figure' dies, and while he is sad about it for two pages (I counted), is completely fine taking Agatha out on a date.

A really nice date.

At a really nice restaurant.

And Lancelot is never mentioned again.

Maybe the food at 'Beauty and The Feast' really is magical, because eating it makes you forget all of the horrible things that happened in your life. At least, the most recent things, like your almost-dad dying.

Gripes and jokes aside, this really pulled me out of the book.

Lancelot, unlike Chaddick, was likely a character many readers like myself enjoyed. Why would his death be rushed over that way? Why isn't he *grieved*?

I expected Tedros to at least feel some sort of guilt, (his quest indirectly caused Chaddick's death, one way or another, and then Lancelot died due to his own stupid orders)

But Tedros remains largely unaffected. (Which says a lot because he is the most emotional character in the entire book.)

The book drags on for so long, but rushes the most critical moments.

Though it certainly has no problems slowing down for a date chapter, a date chapter which I think had no purpose.

I also think it was out of character for Agatha to ask Tedros to go "somewhere nice". She knows about their money problems, for one thing, and knows that Tedros is grieving. It seems everyone is allergic to having emotions which sort of felt stunted to me.

I was missing the gut-wrenching feeling you get when things go wrong which was crazy because literally everything was going wrong!

The only time I felt something was when reading the scene halfway in the book when Agatha and her crew willingly get themselves captured by pirates, and they proceed to ogle Sophie (who I think is 16) and kick these children around in their rumps while making demeaning comments. That is to say, I was largely uncomfortable.

The scene where Sophie begins to sing just made it worse for me, even though it was set up to be some sort of comedic relief (Flashing her bloomers, really?)

I was surprised by the lack of tact in that particular scene. I think I am just mostly shocked by all of this, given I was an immense fan of the series (I reread these books religiously throughout middle and high school, and had even wrote many fanfics) and maybe even slightly disappointed.

For the title 'Camelot Years', you'd think it would be Tedros or even Agatha who shines. But instead, I find that Sophie, of all people, really did save the book. Setting aside that uncomfortable scene, she was honestly hilarious and I enjoyed her inclusion.

Another thing I couldn't understand is why I felt that 'The Endless Woods' was limited.

Merlin explains this, and I realized though his dialogue why I felt like it was limited.

The world, which thrives off stories, seems to lack history. It does not feel lived in.

I was taken aback when reading an altercation between Merlin and Tedros earlier on in the book when they talk about Camelot and 'The Lion and The Snake.'

There is this tale they speak of, but no life is breathed into it. There is no legacy. Merlin says "Some old Camelot king thousands of years ago,"

If Camelot were truly that old, would it not have history? Wouldn't two brothers who fought for the throne be recorded by historians? Was that something that simply did not exist in this world?

Arthur is the only character who seems to have history and legacy, though even he seems neglected. In some monologue, Tedros recalls him and implies Arthur's throne was inherited ("Like his father and his father before him") but Lancelot has an entire segment talking about how Arthur was anxious and didn't really understand why Excalibur chose him. Why would Arthur have that doubt if the crown was passed onto him? And if it really was Excalibur which chose kings, why would Tedros or anyone assume that there was to be a succession or that he would take his father's throne?

It didn't make any sense.

There are also dark implications that Arthur may have been taken advantage of by Gremlaine. (How else would he have sired a son he did not recall?)

The book does not expand on this. (But it seems like I forgot a lot about the series, and I am holding out for hope that the next two installments explain this with dignity)

Quests For Glory.. I remember it being difficult, but at least it still manages to make me feel things even today.

Sorry for the long rant but I just had to unleash the monstrosity of frustration that is currently gnawing at my insides somewhere.

(While it may seem like it, I am not a hater of the series. This is simply venting.)