r/FatFIREUK

Please be brutal. I have spent thirty years being told I’m wrong by the market, competitors, and occasionally a judge. I can handle it.

The situation

Couple, early 50s. Four children who are all technically adults but remain financially connected to us. Thirty years of running geared investment businesses …. serious debt, and real “if this goes wrong we lose everything” sleepless nights. The businesses are sold. The tax bill has been paid. I have cried about that bill.

What remains: £50m liquid, zero debt, all kids education pre-funded, and two people who have absolutely no idea what to do with their mornings.

Annual spend: £400k. Withdrawal rate: sub 1%. The maths doesn’t need to work this hard. We know. We don’t care. Thirty years of existential business risk needs time to heal. We have zero desire to “make it bigger”

The three buckets

Bucket 1 — Cash: £4m

Ten years of spending sitting in cash. I can already hear the intake of breath. This is not a mistake …. it is a deliberate, eyes-open, rational decision to be irrational, because I am very tired and I might want to buy something expensive without doing a spreadsheet first.

Call it liquidity insurance. Call it psychological permission. Call it whatever gets you through the night. We’re keeping it.

Bucket 2 — Gilt ladder: £12m

Low-coupon gilts stretched across forty years. Generates somewhere between £500–650k annually depending on where on the curve we sit. Covers £400k of spending with enough left over to absorb very modest inflation. We hold to redemption, so rising yields are someone else’s problem. Tax is minimal as most of the return is pull-to-par rather than income.

The risks: sterling concentration, and the tail scenario in which a future (Green?) government decides that fiscal credibility is for cowards. We are not dependent on selling, so this is more of an aesthetic concern than a financial one.

Bucket 3 — The children’s inheritance they don’t know about yet: £34m

Global equities and stakes in private companies. This bucket is not for us. We are unlikely to touch it. If the compounding works as advertised and we ignore tax for a minute, this reaches somewhere north of half a billion by the time we’re doddering around in our nineties. At which point our children will have a very interesting conversation at the funeral.

We’re considering wrapping this in a Family Investment Company for IHT efficiency. The structure is mildly annoying to administer. The alternative is donating a significant portion to HMRC, which I find more annoying.

Bucket 3 also functions as our inflation disaster insurance. If gilts get cooked by a decade of stubborn inflation, the equity bucket rescues us. We have a £34m safety net. I mention this with appropriate embarrassment.

What I’m actually unsure about

One, ten years of cash is obviously too much. I know this. My advisor knows this. Is there a version of Bucket 1 … short gilts that doesn’t compromise the “sleep like the dead” objective but stops us leaving quite so much return untouched?

Two, should we be mixing low-coupon supranationals and high-grade corporates into the gilt ladder? The diversification logic is sound. The complexity is the enemy. We are actively trying to own fewer things to think about, not more.

Three, with a sub-1% withdrawal rate and £34m compounding untouched in the background, are we being too boring in our capital allocation? Private credit ( boom boom!) infrastructure, direct lending …. there are more interesting things we could be doing. But interesting sounds like work, and we just stopped working, so…..

Four, what are we missing? We’re relaxed about sequence risk, longevity, and inflation. We are slightly less relaxed about UK political risk and the creeping suspicion that the obvious mistake is always the one you don’t see.

Be as rude as you like. I’ve had worse.

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u/Ambassador_Riada — 12 days ago

Background - FIREd (aka redundancy) last year.

Currently living off payout, GIA, bank interest and dividends.

Fully expected a minimal tax burden this tax year as all sheltered, and that which isn’t is mostly within the PA.

Had a very pleasant surprise where I received in April (post 06) a residual bonus, residual PSU payout and residual RSU payout both of which I sold immediately on vesting for a very minor CGT loss as the share price was and is heading south. The ex company does not have long term viability.

Obviously these were all taxed at 0T rates, with the bonus also incurring NI.

The amount plus my expected dividends will take me over the £125k gross as taxable income.

I haven’t withdrawn anything from my SIPP yet, so in theory I’m assuming (but please correct me if wrong) I could put £48k post tax from the bonus and shares into the SIPP, get that topped up and get a refund from HMRC for the higher rate.

However, when I withdraw my pension, it is healthy enough that I will be paying top tax rate on it. The only benefit I can see is a deferral of tax payments and hopefully tax free growth until I can access in 5 years time.

By adding extra from post tax income I don’t benefit from any salary sacrifice NI savings. I don’t need the extra money right now as we are still living off the redundancy payout. I’ve already max’d family ISAs. I don’t need childcare vouchers.

Its a hugely privileged more than 1st world problem I’ll admit, but I got to this financial status precisely by fretting about these details, so bear with me!

What considerations am I missing? What would you do and why?

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u/No_Jellyfish_7695 — 13 days ago

Child trust fund and financial literacy for 18 year old

hi all.

my eldest is about to turn 17 and we have maxed her CTF so she will get roughly £150k or so in a year.

i know that I would have been highly irresponsible with such a large amount of money at that age.

has anyone successfully navigated this and got any advice?

we have had various ideas like paying for a financial advisor to talk her through the options of how to invest it.

Or putting the hard word on her that if it’s not secured away and invested long term that it will be the last bit of financial support she gets.

all advice welcome.

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u/Secure-Suspect7091 — 6 days ago

When to stop contributing to a sipp? Higher tax rate likely on withdrawal.

Are there any popular or common guidelines for when it is advisable to stop contributing to a sipp?

A colleague was discussing their situation with ChatGPT, and given how much they have, the SIPP contributions are only slightly better than GIA due to the 40/45% income tax they are likely to pay when they start withdrawing.

I also have another colleague who doesn't believe in pensions due to the inflexibility and risk of government rule changes.

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u/Turbulent_Weekend_50 — 3 days ago

How do you make the most out of your fat spending?

How do people here handle budgeting / expense tracking once they’re well past the point of needing a strict budget?

I assume most people in fatFIRE aren’t doing detailed monthly budgeting in the traditional sense. Probably a mix of naturally spending below their means, having a rough annual target, and occasionally checking they’re not drifting into wasteful spending.

But if you still want to optimise spending a bit, not necessarily spend less, but spend better, there has to be some kind of feedback loop.

What does that actually look like for you in practice?

Also interested in how people handle this with spouses/partners. Do you tend to align on an overall spending philosophy, have explicit discussions/limits, separate discretionary budgets, or mostly avoid thinking about it?

Here’s what we’re currently trying:

  1. Categorise expenses retroactively.
  2. Use that for some light feedback, e.g. we enjoy eating out and fancy groceries but not spending much on those. So try to spend a bit more.
  3. Pick some specific categories where we could be more thoughtful, for example holidays. Set a rough annual target. This helps to decide whether an expensive holiday is a good idea or too much this year.
  4. All other categories that seem, we just continue as we are without worrying about it.

My partner seems to be happy to have a budget for a very small number of categories.

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u/Ill-Bat3719 — 5 days ago

Wondering if anyone has any experience with Donor Advised Funds for charitable giving, and if there is anything we should look out for when choosing a provider?

Specifically we're currently looking at the Charities Aid Foundation and NPT at present:

https://www.cafonline.org/personal-giving/effective-ways-to-give/charitable-trust

https://www.nptuk.org

So far I can only think of the admin and investment fees as the thing to keep an eye on. Would love to also hear any stories of how your DAF worked out with getting kids involved. Many thanks.

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u/Spare-Release9010 — 8 days ago