u/waronvirtue

My current ST has ruled against Tiger Warrior Training Tech being able to uplift Dragon Kings to sentience.

For game purposes, his ruling is the authority and is therefore accepted as right and true.

For academic purposes discussed at a distance from the table, I think it's a reach to think it wouldn't explicitly function for that purpose.

Let me know what you think: Can a Solar Exalt awaken a large number of juvenile Dragon Kings with Tiger Warrior Training (3rd Edition)?

The entirely acceptable rationale I was given by the ST is summed up as follows:

1. Tiger Warrior Training doesn't work on animals.

2. Survival Charms would work better on young DKs since they are essentially animals.

As far as our table goes, you need sorcery to speed run awakening a Dragon King. Again, right and fine and true. Here's my counters to the logic:

1. nothing in 3e's Tiger Warrior charm says it doesn't work on animals. Since it works on units, I should think it would apply to a Cavalry and can't imagine a way to train a Cavalry without training the mounts.

1a. Lord of the Apes is a pretty straightforward concept bound up in literary history. I don't think Solar Tarzan should have to know Sorcery to lead a pack of ape elites into combat.

2. Does this mean you could make a Feral child your familiar? How about a baby. Can I increase the size of a baby with Saga Beast virtue or whatever?

2a. The theme of Tiger Warrior Training synergizes with DK life cycle. Perfect subjects for this specific magic. Survival isn't about making your beast a warrior, it focuses on making it a great beast, physical modifications like health, size, and soak and then supernatural potential like fire breath and Iron Wings Carry. I'm not saying these couldn't work on a juvenile DK, just that that would not be a means to awaken their potential for consciousness.

Here's some text from Ruins of Rathess, the 1e book that originated the Dragon King lore.

"...they were given extensive physical training through various hunting games but were not allowed to run wild and possibly harm civilized beings. After many years of special training, the spirit within the beast awakened and the creature could slowly be trained to civility, returning both sentience and personality to its new body."

I don't want mass awakening DKs to be easy, but I do think TWT should make it much faster.

Any insight into community rationale is appreciated!

Simplest question 1st. It talks 3 of a kind success, does this mean I get the conversion for rolling two 10s? two 10s produces 4 successes.

Next up: for god's sake why.

1st movement of the demiurge Charm says it upgrades experiential conjuring of true void. ECOTV says you use it after a craft roll and it adds some non charm dice and a non charm success.

1MOTD further mods the ECOTV. Now for every 3 of a kind successes you get, convert a non success to 10, if Flawless Handiwork is used, reroll these 10s until they fail to appear.

Great. But some folks seem to think the nonsuccess 10 conversion only applies to the dice granted by ECOTV. Is that the general consensus or Dev feedback?

To my reading, dice from ECOTV are just added dice. If this was some kind of separate pool there would be no reason to make them non charm. They aren't a craft roll so you can't excellency them again. 1MOTD should apply to the base roll shouldn't it? Since the base roll's charms seem to apply to it. They're part of that craft roll with the efficiency of being able to decide whether you want to spend to roll them (since they cost additional craft XP) after you see the initial result.

Any official insight or deeper rationale is appreciated.