u/tritone567

▲ 7 r/ESL_Teachers+2 crossposts

How to teach complex prepositional phrases

  • “out from under there”
  • “up against the wall”
  • “down into the tunnel”
  • “back out of the room”
  • “right up to the edge”

What's the theory behind phrases like these? How are they taught to English language learners?

Edit: This is a serious recurring problem. There is no explanation for even the most basic everyday language.

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u/tritone567 — 6 days ago

Pronunciation is physically manipulating the muscles/organs in your mouth to produce sounds of a language. It's not an intellectual exercise at all. I see it as similar to penmanship, which is also difficult to learn, but doesn't necessarily make you a better writer.

Too often people think achieving native-like pronunciation makes you a better speaker. I don't think it has anything to do with it. Just like many people never learn good penmanship, writing just well enough to be readable. That has little to do with their actual writing ability.

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u/tritone567 — 11 days ago

Hey everyone! I'm u/tritone567, the founding moderator of r/PerfectPitchPedagogy.

This is our new home for all things related to absolute pitch acquisition. We're excited to have you join us!

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Post anything that you think the community would find interesting, helpful, or inspiring. Feel free to share your thoughts, photos, or questions.

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  1. Introduce yourself in the comments below.
  2. Post something today! Even a simple question can spark a great conversation.
  3. If you know someone who would love this community, invite them to join.

Thanks for being part of the very first wave. Together, let's make r/PerfectPitchPedagogy amazing.

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u/tritone567 — 13 days ago

Recent science is showing what we adult-learners know to be true!

"Acquiring absolute pitch in adulthood is difficult but possible" (2018)

>Absolute pitch (AP) refers to the rare ability to name the pitch of a tone without external reference. It is widely believed that acquiring AP in adulthood is impossible, since AP is only for the selected few with rare genetic makeup and early musical training. In three experiments, we trained adults to name pitches for 12 to 40 hours. After training, 14% of the participants (6 out of 43) were able to name twelve pitches at 90% accuracy or above, with semitone errors considered incorrect. This performance level was comparable to that of real-world ‘AP possessors’. AP training showed classic characteristics of perceptual learning, including performance enhancement, generalization of learning and sustained improvement for at least one to three months. Exploratory extrapolation analyses suggest that 39.5% and 58.1% of the participants would acquire AP if the training lasted for 60 and 180 hours respectively, suggesting the potential for the majority of the participants to acquire AP. We demonstrate that AP continues to be learnable in adulthood. The extent to which one acquires AP may thus be better explained by the amount and type of perceptual experience.

"Absolute Pitch can be learned by some adults" (2019)

>Absolute pitch (AP), the rare ability to name any musical note without the aid of a reference note, is thought to depend on an early critical period of development. Although recent research has shown that adults can improve AP performance in a single training session, the best learners still did not achieve note classification levels comparable to performance of a typical, “genuine” AP possessor. Here, we demonstrate that these “genuine” levels of AP performance can be achieved within eight weeks of training for at least some adults, with the best learner passing all measures of AP ability after training and retaining this knowledge for at least four months after training.

"Is it impossible to acquire absolute pitch in adulthood?" (2019)

>Absolute pitch (AP) refers to the rare ability to name the pitch of a tone without external reference. It is widely believed to be only for the selected few with rare genetic makeup and early musical training during the critical period, and therefore acquiring AP in adulthood is impossible. Previous studies have not offered a strong test of the effect of training because of issues like small sample size and insufficient training. In three experiments, adults learned to name pitches in a computerized, gamified and personalized training protocol for 12 to 40 hours, with the number of pitches gradually increased from three to twelve. Across the three experiments, the training covered different octaves, timbre, and training environment (inside or outside laboratory). AP learning showed classic characteristics of perceptual learning, including generalization of learning dependent on the training stimuli, and sustained improvement for at least one to three months. 14% of the participants (6 out of 43) were able to name twelve pitches at 90% or above accuracy, comparable to that of ‘AP possessors’ as defined in the literature. Overall, AP continues to be learnable in adulthood, which challenges the view that AP development requires both rare genetic predisposition and learning within the critical period.

"Absolute pitch learning in adults speaking non-tonal languages" (2020)

>Absolute pitch (AP) refers to labelling individual pitches in the absence of external reference. A widely endorsed theory regards AP as a privileged ability enjoyed by selected few with rare genetic makeup and musical training starting in early childhood. However, recent evidence showed that even adults can learn AP, and some can attain a performance level comparable to natural AP possessors. These training studies involved native tonal language speakers, whose acquisition of AP might be facilitated by tonal language exposure during early childhood. In this study, adults speaking non-tonal languages went through AP training that was 20-hr long, computerised and personalised. Performance on average improved, which was accompanied by enhanced working memory for tones, whereas relative pitch judgement and sensitivity to small pitch differences remained unchanged. Notably, two out of 13 learned to label all 12 pitches within an octave, with accuracy and response time comparable to natural AP possessors. Overall, the findings suggest that tonal language exposure is not a prerequisite for AP learning in adulthood. The understanding of the origin of AP would benefit from considering the role of lifelong learning instead of focusing only on early childhood experience.

2026 edit:

"Generalizing across tonal context, timbre, and octave in rapid absolute pitch training"(2023)

>...These findings highlight the complex nature of note representation in AP, which requires note identification across contexts, going beyond the simple storage of a note fundamental. The importance of standardizing testing that spans both timbre and octave in assessing AP and further implications on past literature and future work are discussed.

"Learning fast and accurate absolute pitch judgment in adulthood"(2025)

>Twelve musicians on average spent 21.4 h completing 15,327 training trials. By the end of the training, they learned to name an average of 7.08 pitches (ranging from 3 to 12) at an accuracy of 90% or above and within a response-time (RT) window of 1,305–2,028 ms. After training, pitch-naming accuracy was significantly improved by 128.1% (from .139 to .317) and size of error reduced by 42.7% (from 2.62 to 1.50 semitones) for the trained timbre, which generalized partially to an untrained timbre. Overall, results provide more convincing evidence for the learnability of AP judgment in adulthood beyond the critical period, similar to most perceptual and cognitive abilities.

This is the start of a paradigm shift. None of the commonly held assumptions about AP were true. It was all just something that musicians believed. Also this has implications beyond absolute pitch. If AP can be learned, any cognitive skill should be learnable. And age is not a factor, the brain remains plastic for the duration of your life.

At the very least, perfectpitchgang should admit that there is scientific evidence of adult-learned absolute pitch.

u/tritone567 — 12 days ago