u/theweisp5

Israel: did it go wrong?

Israel: did it go wrong?

Omar Bartov's book has been discussed here previously, but I thought this review by Martin Shaw was worth sharing because it gets a bit deeper into Bartov's argument (i.e., what actually went wrong according to Bartov.)

I will note first in the interest of fair disclosure I haven't read the book because I'm not willing to spend over $20 for a book which is 220 pages long (w/out the front matter and index.)

Shaw has a fair amount to say and the review is worth reading in full, I'll just leave a couple comments.

>Yet if Bartov is right that Zionism was an emancipatory ideology for many Jews, from the moment it fixed its colonization project on Palestine, it was also a threat of elimination for Palestinians.

This is a key point and if Bartov didn't address it in his book, it's hard to understand how he could have missed it. Whether you think Zionism was justified or not, it was a clear threat to the status of the Palestinians and it was totally unreasonable to expect them to accept it, in any form. Once Palestinian resistance materialized (as it did quite quickly,) the Zionists were faced with a choice between abandoning the endeavor or figuring out how to overcome Palestinian resistance. We all know how that ended.

Beyond the structural reasons for the conflict, I think Zionism's religious roots, the belief that the Land of Israel was promised to the Jewish people by God, and the attachment to the whole land of Israel are significant factors in the development and continuation of the conflict that certainly did not begin in 1948. (And while they did not always dominate Zionist/Israeli policy, they have never been limited to the Revisionists/Zionist right.)

>Bartov’s argument that a constitution and bill of rights might have enabled Israel to overcome the effects of the Nakba is even more difficult to credit. He acknowledges that it constituted “ethnic cleansing,” but still seems unable, as he was when he debated it with me in the Journal of Genocide Research in 2010, to acknowledge the full implications for Israel of its being founded on the destruction of another society.

Shaw rightfully rejects Bartov's contention that a constitution and bill of rights would have prevented Israel from going down the path it has, but his argument here is centered around the Nakba and its consequences. Now, regardless of whether you think what "went wrong" took place in 1948 or 1967, I don't think an Israeli constitution would have made much difference. A constitution is only worth as much as the judges who interpret it and the government which enforces it (the US Supreme Court is of course an excellent example of this). A relatively progressive constitution could have made a difference at the margins, but I don't think much more than that.

If I had to answer what went wrong, it wouldn't be the lack of a constitution, but rather 1) Israel's preference to maintain its gains in the 1948-49 war and prevent the return of the refugees rather than exploring the possibility that compromise could lead to a lasting peace, and 2) the decisions to launch the Six Day War and to retain and begin settling the WB and Gaza afterwards. Whether there was a real chance for alternate decisions to be taken is of course open to debate.

Regarding prescriptions for the future, Shaw is certainly correct in his criticisms of the the idea that Germany will impose some kind of solution on Israel and that Trump's Gaza plan will help advance a just settlement. However, when he compares Israel to Nazi Germany and says "[i]t is not fanciful to believe that this axis will also need to suffer defeat" I think he is being just as unrealistic as Bartov. Of Israel's 4 neighbors, 2 are US client states and 2 are semi-failed states. Perhaps in 20-30 years there could be some constellation of Arab/Muslim states that could inflict a significant military defeat on Israel, but I would hope that Palestinians won't have to wait that long.

u/theweisp5 — 18 hours ago

Yair Golan: 2SS Unrealistic for the Foreseeable Future

Yair Golan published an op-ed in Haaretz recently (co-authored with Chuck Freilich) laying out their vision for the "Zionist left." What was most interesting to me was what Golan and Freilich have to say about the Palestinians:

>It means recognizing that a two-state solution is unrealistic for the foreseeable future, even while continuing to strive to this end at all times. It means working to turn the Palestinian Authority into a viable partner by restoring its authority in both the West Bank and Gaza, while advancing civilian – but not military – separation in the West Bank as an interim measure. Above all, it means acknowledging the greatest lie of all: that Israel can annex the West Bank without ultimately destroying itself. To be the Zionist left means understanding that rebuilding and withdrawing from Gaza, except for the buffer zone, is in Israel's interests.

Golan's position here means that there is no Zionist party in Israel which supports the 2SS, in the sense of "if you vote for me I will work to implement a 2SS." Golan's position is closer to theoretical openness to a 2SS (if we are being generous, theoretical support) of a 2SS, at a time and on conditions of Israel's choosing. In addition, Golan also seems to be endorsing indefinite Israeli occupation of "the buffer zone" in Gaza.

Because much of what he calls for is so vague (perhaps purposefully so), I don't think Golan's position is meaningfully different from those of centrist politicians like Yair Lapid, Gadi Eizenkot or even those further to the right.

For his ideas to be taken seriously, I think Golan would need to provide answers to at least the following questions:

  • Under what conditions does Golan think a 2SS would be possible?
  • What does "civilian separation" in the WB actually mean?
  • What is the "buffer zone" in Gaza and under what conditions should Israel withdraw?

My answers would likely be different from his, but reasonable responses could show he is serious about peace with the Palestinians. Without them, I think it's hard to distinguish Golan's position from mere lip service to the idea of the 2SS.

I'm most interesting in hearing what others who describe themselves as left Zionists think of this, and whether you think Golan's positions here can fairly be described as left.

reddit.com
u/theweisp5 — 1 day ago