u/katha-sagar

I made an earlier post which attracted lot of negativity. But that's okay. That's the reality that I actually see and it should talked. I believe one of the reasons why it attracted negativity is because perhaps people thought I supported caste based politics and caste based groups. That isn't true at all. But I've been born into the system and I need to work with what I got. It might be unpleasant, well it is unpleasant but I know no other way.

Not having these caste based groups and politics is of course ideal. Everyone complains about it, me included. But can you guys come up with some ideas how to eradicate it? What do complaints accomplish? Throw ideas at me and I'll see how they can be turned into policies OR insert at least a few such ideas into a different from i.e. acceptable form for powers that be. Well, I can give a try.

What is my position? None. I just don't have any clue how to go about transforming the society into one that is socially equal or at least caste neutral. I've given up even before I begun. So instead I looked around and said "here is what I got, what can I do with it". Upon advise of one of my "mentors", let's say that, who asked me to understand Andhra society, its people and come up with a picture of who is an "Average Andhra" individual. Today apparently such understanding is lacking. I did try talking to sociologists, political science professors in our universities and I was disappointed. Anyway, until today, I've arrived at by talking to lot of people the following few characters of most of us

1. Andhra people would prefer a corrupt competent individual for a politician who can deliver than a spotless, honest individual who lacks drive and can't deliver
2. Andhra people value quality delivery even if they have to pay a bit more. They will tolerate corruption if they see quality in the product
3. (This is in continuation to #2 but in context of education). Andhra people really don't know what quality education looks like. They really think Narayana and Chaitanya are the quality. Now, if we expose our people to what exactly quality education looks like, they'd bet on that.
4. Andhra people will vote for a person who has 5 solutions than to a person who has 500 complaints. To elaborate people vote for the guy A who says "I'll do these 5 things" THAN to a guy B who has "500 complaints on A".
5. Yes, C word. Its important.

There are more but this is what I can recollect right now. I've made lot of notes scattered here and there.

Question: Bengal's society is a lot more progressive than ours. Their society has a lot less caste issues than ours. I did study their society in quite depth. In fact if you see through my post history, you'd find lot of posts on Bengal's history and society. The question is WB itself wasn't able to capitalize much on the "strength" of their society i.e. being progressive. Can anyone hypothesize why? Suppose we've transformed our Andhra society to that is similar to Bengal, how do you think we can capitalize on it? (Note : I do have drafted few policy ideas borrowed from Bengal's society that can work in AP too. Ask me if you are interested).

Social vs Political organizations

In conversations, here online I see that there is a confusion between the goals, ideas, functioning of these two organizations. And hence the conversation become quite muddled. Here are few key differences between the two and MOSTLY there is no direct pollination between the two, in my observations and opinion.

1. Social goals are much long term, say ~50 years. They don't change with electoral cycles. Social goals influence generations of the society i.e. a social policy will survive your generation. Its affects are seen on your children too. OTOH, political goals are within the time lines of electoral cycles. IMO social changes cannot be possible through political policies
2. Social goals must be addressed by social organizations and they should be as non political as possible. For example the issue of eradication of caste is a social cause. It cannot be addressed by a political system that works on top of caste based structures. So, anyone here can take a shot at ideas of the nature of such a social organization. If anyone knows any such org or want to start one, I'll support you in as many ways as possible, yes including financial too.
3. Politics is delivering "what others want". So, you meet 10 people , find common interests and pitch a policy they are are comfortable with. Social change is about "what you think is good for others and make others accept it". Say for example, you have a communist who thinks religion is an opium and people are better off eschewing it. Now, that's a view lot of us agree but making others who are deeply religions is a social change and you need to create a social organization for it and gather support.

Other notes

I might have remarked earlier, AP is a very cooperative society. Whenever we find common interests, you do come together, even at a street level and put our money where our mouth is. I see that happening quite frequently in my travels. But never online. Everyone is angry. Everyone has complaints. And politicians aren't addressing them. And educated people online are spending more time on arguments that leave everyone with anger and frustration. That's so un-Andhra like TBH.

So, in other sub, Ni_bondha, I made a comment on caste in AP the way I saw and experienced it. Actually I am a guy who want to get into active politics of AP sometime in future so I am studying our society to the extent I can. I met lot of remarkable people and gathered lot of ideas. Anyway, that's a topic for another day , not I got to hit the road and get going.

So, I made a comment which was unanimously downvoted without even asking any question. Just a downvote. I really don't care much about them IF there are questions or any points that they found objectionable and they've voiced them. Nothing of that sort. I believe you are all my people and I work for you. And my feedback, observations have some relevance and value for you all. Its about us actually. So I would like your comments on this small piece of opinion (as I said, there's lot more complexity to our society but it takes lot of time and words to type them out. That's for a later day)

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I have something to add on this topic. I want to join active politics of AP sometime in future and grooming myself to that end. I travel a lot and meet lot of people across different cross sections of the society and talk to them. I understood a lot about our society that isn't apparent easily. And even politicians don't have a good grasp of our society, our social psychology - actually one of the politicians adviced me to study our society because not many of them know it accurately.

Three things - one, caste in AP is quite different from perhaps the rest of the country, two caste is essential part of social structure of AP and it won't go anywhere, three people are actually lot better than an occasional headline we see such as this.

In AP, almost all castes have their social organizations catering to welfare of their community. We have one. And I will be one of the "elders" of our community when I am ready. These social organizations are mostly politically neutral (excepting the dominant castes) but lobby for favorable policies whosoever is in the govt. By being as neutral as possible, we have a lot more leverage over the actual political parties. Earlier we used to have a political wing but we've disbanded since. Now, this makes is near impossible to look for a future when caste is eradicated. That's because these community based organizations step in when the govt fails so its members have incentive to be invested in it.

Political parties find it easier and convenient to talk to representatives and negotiate policy recommendations and bargain support in exchange. So they don't have incentive to actually eradicate caste.

Caste in AP should not be looked at as an evil, or religious offshoot but as a social cooperative, just like a trade group or numerous agriculture cooperatives and others) throughout the state. We are an extremely cooperative society and these organizations are one of the manifestations of it. If you are competent, if you have credibility, its easy to gather a group of people and bet on an idea or a business - regardless of your caste or religion. And I see it happen everyday.

I have collected notes of many examples but one that's really noteworthy is our system of "vaaralabbai (వారాలబ్బాయి)" that's a very unique support system we've developed.

I can write a lot ... in fact I do intend to write at least 2 books on society, social structure of AP in say ~2 years. I'll publish it openly, available freely for everyone.

Lastly, AP is an extremely large state, well India is a very very large country. We need innumerable number of administrative regions, whatever you call them as or however you divide them as. A single individual, such as I, can at most cover 4 districts working 14 hrs a day, 300 days in an year. Beyond that I'll need to collaborate or find allies.

I'll be happy to answer any questions you may have quickly before I hit the road. Best wishes!

TLDR: In AP, caste is institutionalized in form of social cooperatives which step in when the state fails to support. Its hard to eradicate.

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I never opined that caste system isn't evil. But as I said I didn't create it I am born into it. And our opinions don't matter actually. And what I exactly said is that it would be helpful to think the caste based organizations as "social cooperatives".

As I said, I want to be a politician. I look for practical solutions. While the ideal situation is desired we don't have it and I don't know how to create it. And on the way to eradicating the caste system, you will need to destroy these caste based organizations. How are we going to accomplish that? I don't know. Let me know if you do. And you want to try, as I said, we'd be more than happy to provide funds for your effort.

And very importantly, these caste based organizations are the life line of B.C (like us). That's why I called them as social cooperatives. We have one and so do others .These organizations step in where the state fails. Now that's a real problem that need to be fixed.

These are complex issues and can't be fixed by one alone and on one fine day. I do what I can, as little as I can. Others can pitch in too. Again, I am all for ideal world. But I need a system that works for us too. If there isn't one, we will create one.

I hope I was able to clarify. Thanks. Cheers!