u/TitleOk3727

Warum hat Kaddi eigentlich seit Jahren keinen neuen Teil mehr rausgebracht?

We as the player wouldn’t know it on our first Run until we him again at the end of the 1st 3rd of the Game? it would be done through Camera Work and letting Dialouge be Vague on Purpose so the Reveal scene from the Trailer could kick really hard. it would sorta end the Depressive theme and start the themes of ambiguity, hope and caution, because he‘s still not in great shape and Ellie thinks of aborting the Quest

Yeah, this was probably said before a couple times but I‘ll say it anyway: Druckmann isn’t the kind of Person who can be Director of anything without having a superior and it showed in his „Opus Magnum“ and in the Backlash that it sparked. He couldn’t take the Blame, nor the criticism or the responsibility for purposely disappointing Customers who were loyal to Naughty Dog for years. A true leader knows when he has to set his Ego aside for the sake of a project and when to admit wrongdoings. Like George Lucas for example who minimized Jar Jar‘s role in the prequels after the character got backlash and he knew that he can‘t fight them because they determined the success of his product. Or the classic Example: how Bruce Straley knew that no one would‘ve played a Game centered around Revenge if God of War already existed at the time, without giving the Player something unique in comparison.

So Burrows feared that Jessamine would find out he caused the Plague to break out so he had her assassinated, but why didn’t he just find a Scapegoat and destroyed all traces that lead to him? Feels rather overcomplicated to stage a whole Coup when you can just aswell get rid of a Rival. Sure he needed her out of Power to enforce Quarantines but couldn’t he have just let Sokkolov brew him something that had the same symptoms as the Plague but was actually harmless? She would be unfit to rule, he steps in and voila

Yes you read correctly and I regret that aswell but it’s the truth. After you completed the Game, you realize that nothing you do has any impact at the end and that renders every effort null and void, which makes the game feel hollow. Which is sad because the Atmosphere is awesome but you don’t have a reason to do anything other than the bare minimum because you know everything is gonna be destroyed.

While we only got the one Open Zone, I‘m interested how you thought about it? It reminded me of Metro Exodus, though it felt defenetly more empty because in the End we only fought Infected there. The Court and the Bank where somewhat fun, but in the End it felt more like a scrapped concept that they used because it cost too many resources to not use. Do you think more Open Zones could‘ve been fun or that they were a bad Idea from the Start?

Under my Reworks of Isaac, the first Comment had the idea of using Fat Geralt as the leader of a Group of WLF-Deserters, who want to leave Seattle, but can’t due to Isaac Controlling all working Gates. They would call themselves Strays or Mongrels as that name was given to them by the WLF when they defected and managed to secure a Metro-Station (calling it Metro because its easier than the actual name) which isn’t accessible on the surface for vehicles because of Debris from destroyed Buildings but some paths still exist. It would be a little Homage to the Metro-games as they have repurposed the Station in to a Hideout Base. And they still have some somewhat intact Tunnels which lead to the Rest of the City.

Fat Geralt would be a former WLF Officer who lost faith in Isaac and the WLF after he started to kill Dissidents, so he would be open to help Ellie on her Quest, because Abby has killed many of their Friends and Family as Isaacs Top-enforcer. He would try to get Tommy into telling them where Jackson is, because he knows they can’t hide in the Underground forever. The Climax could be that the WLF raids the Base at some time further cementing the Theme of them becoming even worse than Fedra.

Would you prefer a pure evil Abby or an Abby that’s completely broken after her attempt to kill Joel (attempt because he survives in this theory) as an antagonist?

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The Seraphites were the stereotypical „Apocalyptic Cult“ that Neil only invented because he needed an Enemy Faction for Abby that she could kill without any bad feelings plaguing her( like she could feel any) so here‘s my Spin on them:

The Seraphites formed originally even before the Outbreak, though thy were just a „hippie“commune who wanted more than consumerism and careers which is why they were seen as fools at first. During Fedra‘s Reign of the City, they didn’t cause too much trouble compared to the WLF which is why they flew under the Radar of Fedra and where able to smuggle supplies to the Properties who would become the Island later on. Fedra separated the Island from the Mainland after they requested Bombardement of lost territories which left some Members of them stranded on the Main land at first, Isaac tolerated them at first but some Members stole supplies while others clashed with the WLF‘S devotion to Isaac, in the end he declared them Strangers which means they‘re not Part of the WLF, so they wouldn’t be protected by them anymore or could take supplies from them anymore. After the relocation of all survivors to the stadium things got more tense to the point where Isaac lequidated the Martyr who isn’t the Prophet in this draft but was part of the Founders.

The Seraphites think that machines make Humans weak and dependent on them, similar to drugs, yet they recognize the necessity of some of them. They view the Infected as Natures wrathful vengeance on Humanity for ravaging and pillaging her for Ressources like Oil, Coal or Gold. In the start some naive members thought they wouldn’t be attacked by them because they weren’t greedy as the others but that didn’t work out, so they became more and more militant, similar to Eden‘s Gate from Far Cry 5. They think that all Humans can life in Harmony if they follow the Founders teachings which boil down to:

-dont let Wrath, Greed or Hate dictate your actions

-dont take more than you need

-Judge not without knowing all sides

-dont get ripped apart between Confidence and Doubt

Ofc those teachings faded during the War with the WLF, which sparked from them taking in Fedra Soldiers and officers who couldn’t live with their Actions but couldn’t join the WLF for obvious Reasons. Isaac demanded that they handed them over but the remaining Founders refused to because they claimed they were reborn in their swarm/flock thus losing the guilt from their past lives. After that Woman was lequidated, they realized that the WLF wouldn’t tolerate other Powers in Seattle, so they retreated to the Island, but the Martyr Gate remained Holy land so some pilgrims made their way there, the WLF killed them, starting the holy War for them, which started the lynching as cleansing procedures. Only the strongest are chosen for that and they know that they go against the teachings of the Founder but they see no other way.

The Leadership would be made out of The last living Founding Member and the Elders who keep taking more and more power, which is why the Founder thinks that they lost their way, making Room for a Storyline for Ellie. The Founder could have the theme of Forgiveness as his trait while also being aware of the necessity of violence.

The reason they cut their Cheeks is because before the fights, they tried to smile more, which pissed off most soldiers so one day, some where beaten up and given a Jokersmile as mocking, which led them to embrace it as their thing.

I also had the idea of one Scar, perhaps the Son of the Founder to realize that the Swarm needs to be purged from the Greed of the Elders especially after they wanted to marry a child. Still the weakest of my reworks but what do you think?

On the other sub i found a Post where ChatGPT made a character Analysis of Ellie and Abby and who would‘ve guessed, even the AI classified Abby as controversial while seeing Ellie as the true Protagonist. Obviously the Glazers were rabid about that, so i thought it could be fun to repost it here, but it‘s not possible. Anybody knows why?

So Issacs plan was to deal with the Scars by killing them all or enough so that they couldn’t pose a threat anymore. But these Guys were already killing his Soldiers in the City and the Island is their Turf which they know far better and will most likely have countermeasures so they will most likely just encircle them and flip the table. The WLF doesn’t have Transport ships, so they can’t use their Humvee‘s which means they have about the same Weapons minus the Territory advantage. It was doomed from the start and no one would‘ve ever though about it being a solution given they don’t have Millions of cannonfodder soldiers. A better take would‘ve been if the WLF found some old Artillery equipment like Mortars and howitzers in a Fedra Base they cleared but couldn’t access before because it was buried under ruins. Or some Chemical Weapons. Once it agains it proves that you can‘t write smarter Characters than yourself if Druckmann thought that Guy was a mastermind

I loved Horizon Zero Dawn from the Minute the Intro ended and I was impressed by how well the Story was made for its Concept, so I was hyped for Forbidden West but what I got was lackluster to be polite, The Two Recaps after another really killed the Vibe because it felt pointless to tell the same Briefing twice and the Intro Mission felt more like a scrapped DLC. I tried to get into it but smth was just missing, everytime it seemed like it could get interesting, (regallas Attack, arrival of the Zeniths, Meeting the Quen, Finding out Faro was still alive) it was resolved within the same Cutscene thus killing any sense of Drama that Zero Dawn did so well. And the other Problem was that Aloy‘s character was changed completely. The Aloy i know from Zero Dawn might‘ve not been very social but she also wasn’t such a Brat. The Original Aloy was grateful for her Friends, because she knew what being an outcast was, this one seemed more annoyed and i know they tried to justify that by saying „she doesn’t want to lose them“ but its also the Way she behaves towards most People. In Zero Dawn Aloy was snarky, snippy but also calm and reserved. In this she was more like the classical Mary Sue that killed Hollywood. Another point is the Gameplay, Weapons are too weak the Beginning to actually do smth and the Upgrades were so expensive at launch yet made next to no difference and the Flying sucked, half the time i expected to fall out of the Air like a Rock. I wanted this Game to be awesome and stood next to, perhaps even surpass the Original, but it just didn’t work

Would you prefer Jesse or Dina as a Companion for Ellie ( Joel isn’t an Option because he would win by a landslide)

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So Burrows imported Rats to exterminate the poor of Dunwall which lead to the Plague breaking out, he wanted to exterminate the Poor because he thinks of them being a pest to Dunwalls Morale. But why didn’t he just put them into Workhouses? For Example: the GDR had a law called the „Asi-Paragraph“ which was essentially a law against begging, loitering or civil unconformity, as the commies knew it would destroy their Peoples Morale if they were confronted with that in their day-to-day life. Not saying that it was a good thing but it had its Perks as East-Germany was one of the few places without Beggars which improved the Morale of the People there ( they still had the highest suicide Rate in the world, but that’s another story). Why didn’t Burrows think of a similar Solution? HE could‘ve proposed a law to Jessamine where he claims its to help get People off the streets and to help them find Work in his Workhouses, where they would be provided with Food and shelter for their services. Granted it would be „better slavery“ but Dunwall has no problems importing slaves from that one Continent so that would be an invalid objection. He could‘Ve solved the Problem of the poor and gain Profit with it, sure we wouldn’t have a game then but…

So we all can agree that Isaac was completely wasted, right? He was supposed to be this Big-Mastermind-leader but what we got was a nobody with no impact on the Story and so forgettable that Ellie didn’t even meet him in her own Game. So once again, I’ll try my own spin on him: Isaac is a former CIA auditor (just a first pitch) to explain his tactical knowledge. He‘s a bit older which means he was atleast thirty when the Outbreak happened and he quickly realized that Fedra would collapse without supply lines. So he formed the WLF with some of his old Friends and toppled Fedra because he managed to persuade enough People within to help him. He was critical about he Fireflies, because he knows that nothing can stand without some power behind it, though he admired their Intentions. He at first tried to tolerate the Seraphites but when more and more supplies got stolen, he let them suffer the consequences and it resulted in the Civil War, he managed to control Major parts of the City but due to the Infected he had to relocate everyone to the Stadium which sparked resistance that he managed to silence. The Reason why he lets Abby go to Jackson is because he heard from new Arrivals that a Settlement in Jackson has Power and is self-sustaining and he hopes to win them as Allies, because the Citys resources run dry which is why he lets the WLF loot Hotspots like the Hospital and he thinks they can maybe establish a trade route and perhaps even an alliance against the Seraphites. He chooses Abby because she has proven as loyal to him since she arrived and lets her pick her Crew so she knows who to work with. When they return without achieving their Goal, they at first tell him that it was a myth and that they didn’t find a Settlement. He at first believes them which ends in him planning the Attack on the Island to bring the fight to them before they keep thinning out his ranks through Guerilla warfare. He doesn’t plan to kill them all but wants to remind them that he still has the upper hand in the conflict. His Goal is that they stop attacking and are more open to negotiation or if that fails, are too weakened to keep attacking him, aswell as too afraid that he comes back to finish the Job. However when Tommy and Ellie start killing his Men he notices that according to Survivors reports, they are after the Crew he sent to Jackson and that’s makes him question Abby‘s story even more. He interrogates some of them who are still alive (they are more for this scenario to work) and ends up finding out the truth. He then confronts Abby about it (not sure where) and it ends with her betraying the WLF. I also planned on him meeting Ellie but that part isn’t fleshed out yet. So what do you think? Better or worse?

Druckmann created Abby and Lev‘s bond so he could have Joel and Ellie but better in his Eyes because they are more diverse than them. But the Bond makes Zero sense, sure them working together to survive the Night makes sense but why is she feeling bad for them if she had no Problems with the WLF shooting Kid soldiers just hours ago? Sure you can claim that its a Theory vs Praxis, but it still feels artificial. More so that she‘s willing to betray the WLF who she knew for Years for some kids she knows for two days max. That worked with Joe land Ellie, because Joel was a Father beforehand, lost his daughter to the same Mindset that would‘ve sacrificed Ellie (No other Choice, do what needs to be done) and they travelled together for 9 months in which Ellie even nursed him back to health. And she openly admits to him on the Ranch that he‘S the only one who stuck with her so long and that he‘s the first Father figure she ever had. Doesn’t really work when you replace that with two diversity tokens. So here‘s my Proposal for that: Abby had a sibling who was younger than her/ a twin but it died because of the Cordyceps, which explains her eagerness to find a cure and why she‘s warming up to Lev and Yara is because they remind her of her Sibling and awaken that side of her again. Still doesn’t make sense that she would betray her faction, but that‘ll be solved another time

A big point Part 2 Defenders love to make is that Ellie is a Monster because she killed a pregnant Women (nevermind that it was self-defense, but whatever), so I‘m curious for a rewrite Project I‘m currently working on: Is Mel‘s Death necessary or was it just so Druckmann could provoke Emotions cheaply?

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I already made a post where I pointed out that Druckmanns Revenge story could‘ve worked if he didn’t act hypocritical about it, but now I‘m taking the Game as a whole and how it could‘ve worked if he cared for more than just stroking his own Ego:

Abby tortures Joel who tried to use a fake name because its what the Jackson People do in order to test strangers on their Turf, but she overheard him and Tommy talking in the Skilift, however she stops when Ellie begs for it and hopes he dies on his wounds

Ellie still chases them because she and Tommy both put the clues together that some of them must be former Fireflies and they could come back which they can’t risk. Tommy goes alone at first because he thinks its his fault for getting involved with the Fireflies in the first place .

The Game offers you to take down enemies non-lethally like in metro or Dishonored, opening a feature where some WLF‘S aren’t hostile and treats Ellie like the Protagonist because that’s what she is, meaning she gets more Weapons

Reducing Abby‘s runtime aswell as extending the runtime in general from 3 to 5 days, which allow Ellie to go to places like the Island, the Skybridges, the Outpost and some concept ideas i have

Abby has her rewritten Arc that i already posted, where it starts with her being conflicted between her Soldier mindset and her Consciousness which plagues her, als I‘m using her concept design to get rid of the „Abbyzilla“ Memes, though she still is somewhat strong. And it turns out that she killed the Father of Lev and Yara, if in a firefight or in a interrogation is not decided yet, which makes her realize she did the same as Joel, but the difference was he was protecting a child.

Joel reunites with Ellie in Seattle, through camera work you would assume he is dead, like in Part 1 but he actually was just in a coma but is now limping. Which makes it harder for him to keep up, which leads to the scene from the Trailer.

The Cult is more than just an Enemy faction for Abby to fight and instead actually plays a role in the story, still not finalized but I‘ll get there. Perhaps one of the Leaders actually serves as a sort of „Khan-like“ from metro, meaning he makes Elllie question if violence truly solves anything.

The Theater Showdown is less stupid, and Abby is the Boss instead of Ellie

The Finale would be in the Stadium to use that place more than just once, still unsure how that ending would be

All in All the way Druckmann‘s idea could‘ve worked if he:

-remembered why the first Game was popular

-didn’t act hypocritical

-didn’t contradict himself

-and got rid of the Fast-travels

i probably got off track but what do you think?

I actually think it makes sense for her to be pissed at him, not because he lied to her which she already suspected, but because he left her in the dark about so much. It could‘ve actually been an interesting Plot line to show how strong their Bond is when they reconcile, wich wouldn’t take years as I give it one month tops before Ellie feels guilty about it, but shouldn’t she be more mad at Marlene? After all she knew her longer, so the fact that she sold her out would be even more World-shattering. It should‘ve been smth like that Ellie at first doesn’t believe him because she thinks that Marlene would‘ve never let that happen, so he gives her the tape with her Confession which then leads to her resenting the Fireflies as everything she believed in has been a Lie. Her Godmother didn’t bother fighting for her or asking her because she couldn’t take the risk. So much potential for good Storytelling and what did we get in the end?

The other subs love to justify the fireflies plan to kill Ellie by saying it’s for a noble cause. So as long as they have the moral highground they can do no wrong? Quite poetic that they swallowed Druckmanns crap without questions. It really shows the modern mindset and their craving for a reason so they can do whatever they want while hiding behind that