u/Krohaguy

Edited: updated calculations for 1-5 targets. Added the 4* Choreo LC.

Hello Everyone!

I have been calculating some E6 Welt mainDD to find which LC to give to him. This is just my findings, but I do not claim everything to be as precise to the point. I am open for discussion, and I hope you find it interesting.

First of all, I included his signature and SIlver Wolf's LC S1-S5 because they are available in the shop/you can lose to his LC, too.

I was specifically looking for Crit damage heavy teams (Sparkle + Sunday + DHPT). As it was already discussed in another post, if your Welt is E6 but you build him with a lot of crit damage it makes sense to rich closer to 100% crit rate (it will give his skill and ultimate hits 130% crit rate and +60% crit damage, but compared to 400-500% crit damage he gets from supports, you better make sure additional hits crit).

Light Cone Tier Optimal rollsCR / CD / EHR / ATK N=1 N=3 N=5
boss 3 enemies 5 enemies
S TIER — CLEAR LEADERS
Jiaoqiu S1 S 9 / 21 / 0 / 0 117.6% 117.8% 118.0%
SW LC · S5 S 2 / 23 / 5 / 0 115.2% 112.5% 112.1%
A TIER — RECOMMENDED
SW LC · S4 A+ 3 / 21 / 6 / 0 112.8% 110.4% 110.1%
SW LC · S3 A 3 / 20 / 7 / 0 111.4% 109.3% 109.0%
Acheron S1 A 9 / 3 / 18 / 0 108.1% 108.8% 109.4%
Holiday Thermae S5 · Battle Pass A 9 / 3 / 18 / 0 107.7% 108.0% 108.2%
SW LC · S2 A 4 / 17 / 9 / 0 107.9% 106.2% 106.0%
SW LC · S1 A− 5 / 15 / 10 / 0 105.5% 104.1% 104.0%
B TIER — SIGNATURE LC FAMILY
Welt Sig S5 B+ 9 / 10 / 11 / 0 103.8% 103.6% 103.6%
Welt Sig S4 B+ 9 / 10 / 11 / 0 102.5% 102.4% 102.4%
Welt Sig S3 B 9 / 10 / 11 / 0 101.2% 101.2% 101.2%
Welt Sig S2 B 9 / 3 / 18 / 0 100.0% 100.0% 100.0%
Good Night and Sleep Well S5 B 9 / 3 / 18 / 0 101.7% 101.9% 102.1%
Welt Sig S1 B− 9 / 3 / 18 / 0 98.8% 98.8% 98.8%
C TIER — AVOID
Boundless Choreo S5 C 3 / 9 / 18 / 0 97.8% 98.0% 98.1%
Tutorial S5 C 9 / 16 / 5 / 0 96.6% 96.9% 97.0%

Notes

Signature S2 is taken as a reference because it's what I currently have.

Silver Wolf's LC loses its position when the number of enemies increases as it requires all the hits from skill land on the same target where Aether Code is applied.

JIAOQIU S1 #1 IN ALL SCENARIOS

The only LC giving a fully multiplicative damage term on top of everything else. the LC's +60% EHR fills the entire EHR slot requirement with zero subroll investment, freeing all 21 non-CR subs for CD. The combination of maximum ATK (A6=80% perm), maximum CD, AND extra vulnerability simultaneously places it ahead of every other option. Grows slightly stronger with more enemies as both Ult AoE and vulnerability scale together.

SW LC - WHY EACH COPY MATTERS AND WHERE COPIES STOP MATTERING

Every SW LC superimposition grants enough permanent EHR (24–40%) that only 5–10 additional EHR subrolls are needed to reach A6=80% on all hits. This unlocks the same high ATK floor as Jiaoqiu while freeing the remaining budget for CD. The LC also provides conditional +12–20% CRIT Rate, reducing the CR subroll requirement to just 2–5 subs.

The difference between copies is almost entirely Aether Code (12% at S1 → 20% at S5). Code fires after each action and applies to the next action's hits on the same enemy. Against one target: full benefit, +10–15% on Skill hits. Against 3 targets: only ⅓ of hits land on the coded enemy → Code benefit drops to ⅓. Against 5: ⅕. This is why SW LC S5 leads by 15.2% in N=1 but only 12.1% in N=5 — and also why S1 vs S5 gap is only ~10% in N=1 but essentially zero in N=5.

What makes Acheron LC interesting is +36% CD bonus. Since the LC pre-loads 36% CD, additional CD subrolls become less valuable. all 18 non-CR subs go into EHR instead, reaching A6=80% permanently (80.7% EHR) with 5372 ATK on all hits. This is actually higher permanent ATK than most Sig LC builds.
The +24% Ult DMG bonus hits every enemy the Ult reaches N=1: +6.3% over Sig S2, N=3: +8.8%, N=5: +9.4%. This is the clearest example of an AoE-scaling LC in the list.

HOLIDAY S5 - 4*

Like Acheron LC, all non-CR rolls into EHR (18 subs → A6=80% permanently). The combined vulnerability is a gain on every single hit of every ability. This matters most when Welt's own stats are already high.

The 529 base ATK does create a deficit (~400 ATK at this multiplier level). But the vulnerability advantage (+12.3% multiplicative on all damage) more than compensates, resulting in +7.7–8.2% over Sig S2 regardless of enemy count.

WELT SIGNATURE LC - WHY IT'S B TIER DESPITE BEING "THE" DEDICATED WEAPON

The Signature LC's value is exclusively conditional: its ATK boost and EHR bonus only apply during Skill turns. On Ult hits, Basic ATK hits, and all Additional DMG (Talent stacks, A4 Judgment, E1 Legacy of Honor), the LC contributes only its permanent A6 tier and +28% DMG to debuffed.

We spend 11 EHR subs to reach 60.3% EHR → A6=40% permanently, with Skill EHR reaching 81% (S2) → A6=80% on Skills. Going further (13–15 EHR subs) would reach A6=60% permanently but the cost in CD subs outweighs the gain on non-Skill hits.

Why the Signature is B tier in a calculated comparison but can feel stronger in practice: In a real Skill-heavy rotation (with Sunday giving Welt extra actions for Skills), the Skill ATK spike is worth more than a simplified 2S+1U rotation. It also allows to build a "gamble" build with less crit rate, but it makes the output even less consistent.

WHY BOUNDLESS CHOREO S5 RANKS BELOW BASELINE

Choreo's stats look impressive on paper: +16% CR +48% conditional CD (vs Slowed OR DEF-reduced - near 100% for Welt).

But Choreo has 476 base ATK. vs 582 for all standard 5★ LCs, that's 106 ATK less. With 97% external ATK%: That's 534 ATK less, or 15.9% lower ATK permanently.

The CD advantage gains roughly 11.7% on crit multiplier. The ATK deficit loses 15.9%. Net: −4.2%, which is roughly where the 98% index lands. The +16% CR freeing 5 more CD subrolls helps, but cannot close the gap created by the 476 ATK base.

Choreo would only be competitive if Welt had very low external ATK% (e.g., in a team without Sparkle).

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u/Krohaguy — 12 days ago

After Hoyo confirmed that E6 crit rate/damage works only with skill and ultimate hits, there is a discussion going on that it's still more reasonable to build 100% crit rate Welt as the additional damage has higher multiplier base (and more hits in total).

The math says no, and I want to explain clearly why.

First, Understand What E6 Actually Does

Welt's Skill and Ultimate are guaranteed to crit at 100% effective crit rate as long as the enemy is Slowed — because E6 adds +30% to your base crit rate for those hits.

That means if your base crit rate is 70%, E6 brings it to 100% on those hits. If your base crit rate is 100%, E6 still caps at 100% — the extra 30% goes to waste.

So the real question becomes: what do you do with the 10 subrolls you save by stopping at 70% instead of grinding to 100%?

The answer: you put them into Crit Damage or Attack, or search for external sources for these stats.

The Two Builds

Build A - "70% CR": Spends 10 rolls on Crit Rate, 20 rolls on Crit Damage.

  • Final stats: 69.8% Crit Rate / 179.6% Crit Damage
  • With E6 on Skill/Ult hits: effectively 100% CR / 239.6% CD

Build B - "100% CR": Spends 20 rolls on Crit Rate, 10 rolls on Crit Damage.

  • Final stats: 102.2% Crit Rate (capped at 100%) / 114.8% Crit Damage
  • With E6 on Skill/Ult hits: effectively 100% CR / 174.8% CD

Notice that Build B spent 10 extra rolls chasing crit rate - and got absolutely nothing for it on Skill/Ult hits, because E6 was already handling that. Those 10 rolls essentially vanished.

The Core Math (Don't Worry, It's Simple)

Here's how average damage per hit works in HSR:

>Expected damage per hit = base × (1 + Crit Rate × Crit Damage)

This is it. If you crit 70% of the time and each crit multiplies damage by 179.6%, your average hit is worth:

>1 + 0.70 × 1.796 - 2.257× your base damage (Build A)

If you crit 100% of the time but only by 114.8%:

>1 + 1.00 × 1.148 - 2.148× your base damage (Build B)

2.257 > 2.148. Build A's Additional Damage hits harder on average, even with "only" 70% crit rate.

For the Skill and Ultimate direct hits, both builds hit 100% crit rate via E6, so the only difference is Crit Damage:

>Build A: 1 + 1.00 × 2.396 - 3.396× (CD is 179.6% + 60% from E6) Build B: 1 + 1.00 × 1.748 - 2.748× (CD is 114.8% + 60% from E6)

Build A wins by +23.6% on direct Skill/Ult hits. Build A also wins by +4.9% on Additional Damage. Build A wins on everything.

"But What If I Get Unlucky and Additional Damage Never Crits?"

Valid concern. Let's look at the numbers.

In a standard rotation of 1 Ultimate + 2 Skills, against 1 enemy, you get roughly 14 separate Additional Damage procs rolling at your 70% crit rate.

  • You expect 10 out of 14 to crit
  • In 90% of your rotations, you'll land between 7 and 12 crits
  • The chance of fewer than half critting: 9.3% - about 1 in 11 rotations

Against 5 enemies, that grows to roughly 25 Additional Damage procs:

  • You expect 18 out of 25 to crit
  • In 90% of your rotations: 14 to 21 crits
  • Chance of fewer than half critting: 1.7% - about 1 in 59 rotations

So yes, you will occasionally see a rotation where several Additional hits don't flash gold. But here's the thing: even in that unlucky rotation, Build A still deals more total damage than Build B does on a perfectly average rotation. The crit hits in Build A strike 56% harder than Build B's crit hits. The math comes out ahead regardless.

For Build B to mathematically overtake Build A, you would need an external Crit Damage buff of +154%. No character in the game comes close to providing this. The gap narrows but never closes.

Some people just don't like seeing non-crit numbers. That's completely valid as a preference. If you'd rather have consistent visuals at the cost of ~12% damage, 100% CR is a totally fine choice for comfort.

But if we're having the theory discussion: 70% base CR is the correct answer, not because Additional Damage doesn't matter, but because Crit Damage buffs it more efficiently than the last 30 points of Crit Rate ever could.

  1. E6 guarantees 100% effective Crit Rate on Skill/Ult hits - so those 10 extra CR subrolls you spend going from 70% to 100% do nothing for your strongest hits.
  2. Those 10 rolls become 64.8% Crit Damage instead, which hits harder on every single damage instance in your kit.
  3. Even on Additional Damage with "only" 70% CR, your average output is higher because your crits are 56% fatter than 100% CR build's crits.
  4. Against 5 enemies, there's a 1.7% chance per rotation that fewer than half your Additional hits crit. Build A is still ahead even on those rotations.
  5. If you use Sunday or Sparkle with her LC, still build 70% crit rate. The additional value their crit damage buff brings will be improved with the crit rate they give (80/90 crit rate with their respective buffs)

Open for a discussion

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u/Krohaguy — 14 days ago

As this question was raised for several times, I sent a "bug" report regarding the E6 Welt.

I put bug in quotes because according to the description of E6, only skill and ultimate damage hits enjoy the crit rate/damage boost. And it indeed works this way: neither additional hit Welt deals with his skill or ultimate (talent, E1 or A4) gets the 30% crit rate nor 60% crit damage bonus.

I still hoped it wasn't intended this way and that we could get at least the 30% crit rate bonus to all the damage triggered by the skill/ultimate. It would allow to build 70% crit rate Welt and have all the hits crit.

I am not asking about 60% crit damage (it's stingy but it doesn't break a mainDD build as much as having to build 100% crit rate anyways to avoid losing crit hits on the main part of his damage - additional damage).

And here you can see the answer from hoyo.

Your thoughts?

Edit: with the amount of crit rate Welt needs to achieve 100% hits drastically all of his attack and crit damage rolls. Statistacally speaking, it's better damage-wise to hit the 70% crit rate total in battle. Additional hits are the main source of damage, true, but they are also very frequent. It's between 16 hits (against 1 enemy and ratation of 1 ultimate and 2 skills) and up to 30 hits (against 5 enemies with every skill hit landing on a different target). So statistically speaking, the variance shrinks further. 90% of rotations sit between 17 and 25 crits. The coefficient of variation is just 6.7%. meaning that there is very low chance of getting less than a half crit hits, where every hit is stronger thanks to the investment into other stats rather than just rasing crit rate/damage. It still makes sense for your to "gamble" and try to fish out crits on additional damage with 70% crit rate.

Just don't go lower than that

https://preview.redd.it/7yiq52oav0yg1.png?width=958&format=png&auto=webp&s=11b41751f791791b8a3ce9ee676d40c0b8205174

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u/Krohaguy — 15 days ago