Tibia Vocation Rebalance 2026 Phase 2 Day 1
It's me again. This post brought to you by what remains of the world’s drinking water.
Phase 2 Analysis (2026-05-12)
Source files: merged_<Vocation>_from_12.05.2026.csv — posts dated 12.05.2026 onward only.
Total: 1011 posts across 5 vocations.
Phase 1 → Phase 2 Sentiment Shift
| Vocation | Posts (P2) | P1 Neg | P2 Neg | Delta |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Paladin | 271 | 84% | 50% | -34pp |
| Knight | 185 | 65% | 71% | +6pp |
| Sorcerer | 239 | 56% | 62% | +6pp |
| Druid | 226 | 69% | 81% | +12pp |
| Monk | 90 | 62% | 78% | +16pp |
Paladin is the only vocation where CipSoft's Phase 2 changes moved sentiment meaningfully in a positive direction. All others deteriorated.
Paladin (Phase 2) — 271 posts
| Sentiment | Count | % |
|---|---|---|
| Negative | 136 | 50% |
| Neutral | 79 | 29% |
| Positive | 56 | 21% |
| Thread | Posts | Pos | Neu | Neg |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Paladin - General | 108 | 20% | 30% | 50% |
| Paladin - Stances | 68 | 22% | 31% | 47% |
| Paladin - New Spells | 70 | 16% | 27% | 57% |
| Paladin - New Ammunition | 25 | 24% | 36% | 40% |
Top Phrases: barrage spell area · small area of effect · double charm loss · energy ring nerf · divine defiance weak · sharpshooter too strong · healing too low · supply cost high · diamond arrow size · cursor position targeting · solo hunt worse · team hunt comparison · elemental arrow AoE · spell mana cost · exura gran san · divine dazzle rework · swiftfoot useless · survivability nerf · healing scaling bad · new healing spell · defensive stance lacking · rune replacement failed · grenade targeting options · double attack scaling · charm proc removed · spell shape clunky · mages vs paladin damage · ranged monster problem · exori style spells · test server overcrowded
Key findings:
- Barrage AoE universally criticized — "player + 3×3 around target" design feels too small; consensus ask is diamond-arrow-sized area
- Divine Defiance (defensive stance) widely reported as bugged or imperceptibly weak; Sharpshooter dominates but punishes survivability
- Energy ring (2:1 mana ratio) still generates consistent opposition even at reduced negativity; combined with charm removal and mana-cost spells, paladin supply costs remain highest
- Healing scaling described as broken — Exura gran san healing ~1,000 HP at level 2,000; no large-cooldown burst heal ("exura max san") exists
- Spell targeting flexibility missing across Divine Grenade, Divine Barrage, Ethereal Barrage — compared unfavorably to rune's 4 targeting modes
- Divine Dazzle still unreliable (chain misses ranged mobs, high CD, short duration)
- Paladin identity confusion: new spells push toward boxing (knight-style) while kit and gameplay are built around kiting at range
- Test server overcrowding specifically flagged as limiting feedback quality
Most Positive: Darkstar (Paladin - General) — "RP gameplay feels so unbelievably good right now... 6.5kk/h raw at Roshamuul west... This is how RP should have been but never was until now." Most Negative: Nie Lii (Paladin - General) — "These changes make no sense; this isn't balancing, it's just a blatant nerf... a mage can withstand more damage than a paladin with minimal effort."
Most Constructive per Thread:
- General — King Talion: energy ring revert to 1.5:1 with reasoning, healing scaling + potion cost fix, and targeting improvements — three distinct axes with concrete rationale
- Stances — Hashima: vocation-by-vocation comparison showing Sharpshooter is the only offensive stance with a survivability tax; proposes either removing healing penalty or making Divine Defiance a genuine defensive option
- New Spells — Hashima: four specific reasons the current area design fails, plus four alternative area designs any of which would fix the core problem
- Ammunition — Eobl: tested level 600+ specifically; calibrated request for attack value 25–27 (not full diamond parity) with economy-based reasoning
Bottom line: Phase II significantly improved paladin sentiment compared to Phase I, but two unresolved problems dominate — barrage AoE too small to replace runes, and combined survivability nerfs not offset by new healing options.
Knight (Phase 2) — 185 posts
| Sentiment | Count | % |
|---|---|---|
| Negative | 131 | 71% |
| Neutral | 31 | 17% |
| Positive | 23 | 12% |
| Thread | Posts | Pos | Neu | Neg |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Knight - General | 90 | 10% | 16% | 74% |
| Knight - Stances | 21 | 5% | 19% | 76% |
| Knight - New Spells | 20 | 10% | 20% | 70% |
| Knight - Self Healing Adjustments | 54 | 13% | 17% | 70% |
Top Phrases: solo play ignored · 2H weapon forgotten · 2-second cooldown bad · healing inconsistency paralyze · mages tank better · stances too weak · EK worst vocation · sell your EK · damage gap widening · solo exp unchanged · no offensive buffs · shield slam nerfed · exori scu useless · exori min hated · merge exeta spells · chivalrous challenge rework wrong · wheel points too costly · 1H vs 2H imbalance · lower-level knights hurt · mana cost increased · life leech reduced · stance debuffs unfair · kiting impossible · weapon element gaps · exeta range too short · battle healing mandatory · utura spells irrelevant · damage scaling broken · test phase too short · combat mastery useless
Key findings:
- Phase 2 launched without promised changes — Exori Min rework and Exeta Amp Res fixes were absent from the test server; dominant opening complaint across all four threads
- Two-handed playstyle made nonviable — ~20% less overall damage, Exori Scu mitigation nerfed from 100% to 50%, no compensating offensive spell; "depot decoration"
- Solo EK gains nothing — better survivability in theory, but killing speed unchanged means XP/h unchanged or worse against 8-monster boxes
- 2-second healing group cooldown universally rejected — EK only vocation with 2s CD; combined with paralysis creates windows where healing is completely blocked; popular fix: keep 1s CD, double heal amount
- EK stances weaker than all other vocations — no new mechanics, existing penalties unchanged; other vocations received meaningful bonuses without comparable costs
- Mages tank better than knights — data-backed: MS/ED in full-defense sacrifices nothing, EK sacrificing 35% damage still heals less
- Wheel of Destiny too costly and conflicting — key perks (Battle Healing, Chivalrous Challenge, Exori Mas CD) on opposing branches; other vocations reach full rotation by level 90, EK needs 600+
- Paralysis + 2s heal CD = hard stop at specific spawns (Oramond Furys, Roshamuul, Undead Seal)
- Weapon element coverage gaps unaddressed — no earth swords vs. Bulltaurs, no energy axes vs. Pumin Seal
Most Positive: Legacyofrain (Knight - Self Healing Adjustments) — "1H + Shield feels extremely smooth to play right now, very enjoyable... the survivability is in a very good spot." Most Negative: Crah Elimandy (Knight - General) — "Two-handed EK gameplay is becoming obsolete in real time. A beautiful collection item for depot decoration."
Most Constructive per Thread:
- General — Lordy Destroyer: restore Exori Scu mitigation to 100% (or 75% applied to all attacks), add elemental types to end-game shields (Ectoplasmic = ice, Gnome = energy, Falcon = fire) for 1H viability by element
- Stances — Chronus Legacy: three balanced options (remove penalties / raise bonuses to 60% / add new mechanics like leech doubling or crit chance); preferred option 3
- New Spells — Bree: 1H weapons have only 2 imbue slots (crit + life leech = no mana leech); proposes shield imbuement slot + revert of spell mana cost increases
- Self Healing — Artbatz: keep individual 2s spell CD, restore group CD to 1s — lets players alternate Exura Ico / Exura Med Ico every 1s as a manual override during paralysis
Bottom line: Knights received improved 1H+shield survivability but no solo damage, no 2H compensation, a uniquely punishing 2s healing cooldown, and stances weaker than every other vocation.
Sorcerer (Phase 2) — 239 posts
| Sentiment | Count | % |
|---|---|---|
| Negative | 148 | 62% |
| Neutral | 52 | 22% |
| Positive | 39 | 16% |
| Thread | Posts | Pos | Neu | Neg |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Sorcerer - Stances | 21 | 10% | 19% | 71% |
| Sorcerer - New Spell | 32 | 16% | 28% | 56% |
| Sorcerer - Wheel of Destiny | 23 | 4% | 35% | 61% |
| Sorcerer - General | 118 | 15% | 19% | 66% |
| Sorcerer/Druid - Mana Buffer | 45 | 27% | 24% | 49% |
Top Phrases: elemental stance conversion · all spells same element · cursor position casting · solo hunt impossible · rune area reduction · death echo targeting · second explosion timing · momentum rotation disruption · great death beam cooldown · energy wave augment order · beam mastery progression · lord of destruction weak · runic mastery useless · mana buffer too strong · wand damage scaling · druid superior damage · paladin damage comparison · solo vs team balance · rune size nerf · gift of life pointless · wave rotation clunky · death beam range inferior · focus mastery position · energy wave perk swap · soul point consumption · UH rune removal · boss loot contribution · sorcerer vocation identity · mage barrier survivability · low level wheel access
Key findings:
- Stance trigger mechanic almost universally rejected — "trigger one element, convert the next spell" seen as clunky and confusing; consensus ask: activate stance → all spells automatically become that element
- Death Echo cursor targeting is an unfixed bug/gap — cannot be aimed at cursor; incompatible with rune-style mouse-aim; second explosion timing inconsistent (1–2s range); walking through a door cancels second hit
- Solo hunting is a clear net nerf — players report 15–25% XP/h loss; combined effect of smaller rune AoE (25 from 37), wave alignment requirements, and Death Echo positional unreliability
- Druid superiority data-backed — Terra Wave (120 base, 4s CD) vs. Great Fire Wave (100 base, 4s CD); Strong Ice Wave (170 base, 6s CD) vs. Energy Wave (150–157 base, 8s CD); "damage dealer" vocation objectively lower damage than "healer"
- Great Death Beam cooldown at 7s condemned — 6s group CD with Great Energy Beam causes mid-rotation desync; fix request: reduce to 6s or raise base damage
- Energy Wave augment order wrong — "Affected area enlarged" should be Aug I (like Exori Mas for Knight), not Aug II
- Mana buffer divisive — roughly half call it overpowered (zero cooldown, works vs. agony, mages tankier than paladins per-level); other half call it necessary; most-cited fix: 50 soul points per trigger
- Wand/rod auto-attack dismissed — bare-fist damage exceeds wand damage numerically at level 600+; near-universal call for ML + level scaling plus small AoE
- Sorcerer identity crisis post-UH removal — neither heals, tanks, chains, nor deals highest damage
Most Positive: Magistykz (Sorcerer - General) — "The latest changes were enough to put this vocation in a fantastic place. After the beam and death echo buff, it's just excellent. 15–20% more exp in most spots." Most Negative: Zizi Balagan (Sorcerer - General) — "MS and ED feel like a joke right now. Knights have more elemental damage options than MS and ED... They might as well remove magic vocations."
Most Constructive per Thread:
- Stances — Nailiel: full stance consolidation — four core spells each converting to active stance element, shared cooldowns, removes duplicate beam hotkey problem; includes specific damage values and cooldown proposals
- New Spell — Sleketom: rune size conditional on party composition (nerf only in party, keep 37 sqm solo) — most actionable compromise in any thread; also: Death Echo charms on both turns, second hit higher damage, spell not wheel-gated
- Wheel — Dark Soul of Hell: mathematical proof that Great Death Beam is strictly dominated at all stages (same base damage, shorter range, longer CD); proposes specific fix: raise base to 190–200
- General — Queen of Darknesz: proposes chain variants of existing wave spells (shared CD, 5–9 targets auto, wheel integration) + expanded elemental identity system
- Mana Buffer — Akuji Heartless: 50 SP per buffer trigger, 200 SP max (4 protections), grace period for multi-hit combos — simultaneously limits abuse, revives soul points, preserves anti-headshot intent
Bottom line: Sorcerers broadly reject the stance trigger mechanic, view Death Echo as still incomplete, and perceive the rune AoE nerf as an uncompensated solo-hunting net loss; mana buffer and beam mastery changes are the update's clearest wins.
Druid (Phase 2) — 226 posts
| Sentiment | Count | % |
|---|---|---|
| Negative | 184 | 81% |
| Neutral | 24 | 11% |
| Positive | 18 | 8% |
| Thread | Posts | Pos | Neu | Neg |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Druid - Stances | 30 | 7% | 17% | 77% |
| Druid - New Spells | 53 | 6% | 11% | 83% |
| Druid - General | 113 | 4% | 12% | 83% |
| Sorcerer/Druid - Mana Buffer | 30 | 13% | 27% | 60% |
Top Phrases: fork spell inconsistent · rune area nerf · solo hunt nerfed · 10% magic level · elemental synthesis weak · forked spells targets · offensive stance joke · healing stance okay · rune size restore · fork spell range · solo druid weakest · team hunt healer · mana buffer strong · wands rods useless · ice wave area · terra wave useless · UE 4 second cooldown · strong ice wave locked · wheel of destiny costly · charm proc runes · fork spell damage · sorcerer vs druid gap · physical spell missing · two elements only · healing link secondary · ranged monsters unreachable · utito dru stance · gran frigo hur · blessing grove crit · vocation change option
Key findings:
- Rune area reduction is the #1 complaint — 10–30% raw XP/h loss reported; nerfed 25 sqm square rune inferior to original 37 sqm diamond; rune-only hunts still outperform spell+rune combos
- Fork spells fail to compensate — hit 2–6 targets inconsistently (not 6–7), jump randomly back to hit mobs, cannot reach ranged creatures diagonally, deal less damage than a nerfed avalanche; ask: 8–12 targets minimum
- Elemental Synthesis offensive stance is trivial — 10% magic level ≈ +13–16 ML at mid-high levels; paladins got +30–35% skill bonus; comparison made repeatedly
- Druid locked to two elements (ice + earth) — sorcerers got elemental switching, paladins/monks gained breadth; spawns resistant to both (e.g. Podzilla quaras) entirely unviable; most-requested addition: physical element
- Strong Ice Wave gated behind level 600+ — sorcerers get large fire wave as baseline; druids must invest massive Wheel points for equivalent
- Wrath of Nature weak — base ~150 vs. Sorcerer's ~200 equivalent; 4-second global CD after casting makes it near-unusable in rotation
- Healing output scaling broken — Exura Sio: very wide variance (1300–2800 HP at level 1450); level 730 druid heals only ~230 HP less than level 1900; monk's Sio already outperforms druid's at lower levels
- Mana buffer too strong per PvP, insufficient per solo PvE — clean split; most coherent fix: 50 SP per trigger, 4 max charges
- Wands and rods universally dismissed — bare-fist beats wand damage at high levels; call for ML + level scaling + small AoE
- "Punished for being able to heal" — pervasive meta-complaint; every other vocation received net buffs while druid lost its primary solo tool (runes) with no adequate replacement
Most Positive: Erikovik (Druid - General) — "The new chain spell with the extra jump improved a lot... being able to cast this spell without selecting a target, while still hitting 6 or 7 monsters, is a substantial quality-of-life improvement." Most Negative: Bobeek (Druid - General) — "It was a DREADFUL and AGGRAVATING experience... People are screaming, you don't listen... Druids without a team are WORTHLESS after runes' AOE nerf."
Most Constructive per Thread:
- Stances — Supersonic Lulu: three-tier scaling for Blessing of the Grove (crit heal chance + heal bonus per unlock stage), removes HP condition, adds Forked Glacier as charm-proc weapon proficiency option
- New Spells — Aruarian Druid: tie fork buffs (range, max creatures, damage) to solo stance specifically to not break team balance; reduce cooldown to 4s with ice/earth forks sharing CD; until fork spells are fixed, any rune nerf is a pure druid nerf
- General — Depownik: numerical breakdown showing Elemental Synthesis gives only +15.6 ML for well-geared mid-game druid; compares directly to paladin's +30% distance + holy conversion; proposes removing 4s global CD after UEs, restoring rune area, reworking fork from chain to fixed AoE (categorically better for a kiting vocation)
- Mana Buffer — Akuji Heartless: 50 SP per trigger, 4 charges max — same proposal independently surfacing in both Sorcerer and Druid threads
Bottom line: Phase 2 improved minor details but failed to address the structural problem — druids lost their primary solo tool (full-size runes) and received fork spells too inconsistent and weak to compensate, leaving solo druids as the clear losers of the entire rebalance.
Monk (Phase 2) — 90 posts
| Sentiment | Count | % |
|---|---|---|
| Negative | 70 | 78% |
| Neutral | 12 | 13% |
| Positive | 8 | 9% |
| Thread | Posts | Pos | Neu | Neg |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Monk - New Spell | 15 | 13% | 27% | 60% |
| Monk - Virtue of Justice Rework | 11 | 18% | 18% | 64% |
| Monk - General | 64 | 6% | 9% | 84% |
Top Phrases: chain breaking erratically · cooldown too high · Thousand Fist Blows useless · fist fighting 16% vs 35% · Chained Penance worse than before · ranged boss rotation · Mass Spirit Mend cooldown · spell rotation awkward · Sweeping Takedown removed · Wheel of Destiny cost · chain jump range · EK RP buffed monk ignored · auto attack on bosses · Sanctuary too restrictive · physical protection missing · Virtue of Justice conflict · Spiritual Outburst lag behind · Guiding Presence worthless · serene state punishing · solo play broken · melee vocation no shield slot · team hunt support role · Sanguine Clawn synergy · TFB ranged spender · Balanced Brawl cooldown · familiar completely useless · boss mechanics excluded · energy ring useless · Mentor Other icon missing · party bonus lost on lure
Key findings:
- Chained Penance and Spiritual Outburst measurably worse after chain targeting rework — closest-target logic causes chains to break after 3–4 mobs even when fully surrounded; most cited fix: increase jump range by 1 SQM
- Thousand Fist Blows doesn't fit spell rotation — 12s base CD still too long even with spender reset; community split between reclassifying as a ranged spender (like Sweeping Takedown) or lowering CD to 6s
- 16% fist fighting vs. 35% for EK and RP — perceived as unfair; monk specifically nerfed for having high skill while EK/RP now receive equal benefit
- Mass Spirit Mend cooldown (12s) makes it impractical for sustained team healing — ask: reduce to 4–6s
- Wheel placement of TFB displaces Sweeping Takedown buffs — near-unanimous: restore Sweeping Takedown perks, move TFB elsewhere
- Monk survivability worsening relative to other vocations — no shield slot, low physical protection, weak armor values; mana buffer changes don't help
- Boss viability near-zero — auto attacks miss frequently, no ranged spender, several boss mechanics require UH which monks cannot use
- Sanctuary impractical — standing on a single SQM conflicts with kiting solo gameplay; suggestions: extend duration, make area follow monk briefly
- Players explicitly quitting or listing monk equipment for sale
Most Positive: Arturius Ironfist (Monk - General) — "My general feeling is that monk is sturdier than before, resulting in more comfortable hunts... extra healing would allow me as solo player to go for other hunting tasks." Most Negative: Soko Magico (Monk - General) — "In approximately one year it was completely destroyed... turned into a buff totem for other vocations... The only thing that truly makes me sad is knowing that, at 38 years old, I experienced my very first 'scam' in a 2D German game."
Most Constructive per Thread:
- New Spell — Crocante Socolento: two concrete options — reduce wheel-augmented CD from 6s to 4s so TFB fits natural rotation, or reclassify TFB as a default spender (like Sweeping Takedown), solving both rotation fit and Spiritual Outburst dependency
- Virtue of Justice Rework — Cawi Ratka: identifies logical inconsistency — RP's +6% affects ~50% of damage, Sorcerer's +9% affects ~99%; proposes swap (RP +12%, MS +6%) to equalize real per-vocation impact
- General — Krawedziarz: six distinct issues with precise mechanics — virtue toggle accidental deactivation, Chained Penance hitting 3–4 while moving vs. standing, ranged rotation gap for bosses, Mass Spirit Mend spell group CD blocking Spirit Mend for 2s, Serenity loss in team hunts contradicting Virtue of Justice's party support intent, Wheel forcing abandonment of damage tools. Each section ends with a concrete alternative.
Bottom line: Monk Phase 2 is dominated by a chain spell players report is now measurably worse than before, compounded by sustained frustration that every other vocation received meaningful buffs while Monk received expensive wheel changes and a new spell that doesn't fit its rotation.
Phase 2 Cross-Vocation Analysis (2026-05-12)
All 5 vocations · 1011 posts
Overall Phase 2
| Sentiment | Count | % |
|---|---|---|
| Negative | 673 | 67% |
| Neutral | 188 | 19% |
| Positive | 150 | 15% |
Per Vocation (sorted by Neg%)
| Vocation | Posts | Neg | Neu | Pos |
|---|---|---|---|---|
| Druid | 226 | 81% | 11% | 8% |
| Monk | 90 | 78% | 13% | 9% |
| Knight | 185 | 71% | 17% | 12% |
| Sorcerer | 239 | 62% | 22% | 16% |
| Paladin | 271 | 50% | 29% | 21% |
Cross-Vocation Complaints (Phase 2, 3+ vocations)
| Complaint | Vocations |
|---|---|
| Solo hunting worsened / rune area uncompensated | All five |
| New spells don't fit rotation or have wrong cooldowns | Knight, Sorcerer, Monk, Paladin |
| Wheel of Destiny too costly / perks on wrong branches | All five |
| Stance mechanic undertuned or poorly designed | All five |
| Phase 2 missing promised changes from Phase 1 feedback | Knight, Monk, Druid, Sorcerer |
| Mana buffer too strong / Gift of Life obsolete | Sorcerer, Druid |
| 4s global cooldown after UE spells punishes rotation | Sorcerer, Druid |
| Soul Points proposed as mana buffer charge limiter | Sorcerer, Druid (independent) |
| Vocation identity unclear after rebalance | Paladin, Sorcerer, Monk, Druid |
| Wand/rod damage irrelevant at high levels | Sorcerer, Druid |
Shared Constructive Proposals (independently raised by multiple vocations)
| Proposal | Vocations |
|---|---|
| 50 SP per mana buffer trigger, 4 charges max | Sorcerer (Akuji Heartless), Druid (Akuji Heartless) |
| Restore individual heal CD to 1s, keep spell CD at 2s | Knight |
| Rune nerf party-conditional only (keep 37 sqm solo) | Sorcerer (Sleketom) |
| Augment order swap (area first, damage second) | Sorcerer (Energy Wave) |
| Chain jump range +1 SQM | Monk |
| Elemental arrows / weapons need ML + level scaling | Druid (wands), Paladin (arrows) |
Vocation-Specific Phase 2 Issues
Paladin — Biggest sentiment improvement (-34pp). Barrage AoE still too small to replace runes; Divine Defiance bugged/useless; energy ring 2:1 still contested; healing scaling broken at high levels. Positives: Sharpshooter broadly liked at mid levels, Stances feel like QoL win.
Knight — Worsened (+6pp). Phase 2 launched without promised Exori Min and Exeta Amp Res fixes. 2H builds nonviable; 2s healing CD the single most universally rejected change; EK stances weakest in game. Only 1H+shield team-hunt players are satisfied.
Sorcerer — Slight worsening (+6pp). Stance trigger mechanic rejected; Death Echo cursor targeting unfixed; solo hunting net nerf from rune + wave changes. Mana buffer and Great Death Beam buff are Phase 2's clearest positive signal.
Druid — Significant worsening (+12pp). Fork spells hitting 2–6 targets instead of 6–7 is the defining bug; elemental synthesis stance provides ~16 ML bonus; locked to two elements while all others gained breadth; rune nerf uncompensated.
Monk — Significant worsening (+16pp). Chained Penance chain targeting rework made it measurably worse; TFB 12s CD doesn't reset via spenders; 16% fist fighting vs 35% for EK/RP; Sweeping Takedown perks displaced. Santuary impractical.
Extremes (Phase 2)
- Most positive: Darkstar (Paladin - General) — test data showing 6.5kk/h raw at Roshamuul west, 15–20% improvement across multiple spawns
- Most negative: Soko Magico (Monk - General) — "at 38 years old, I experienced my very first 'scam' in a 2D German game"
- Most constructive (cross-vocation): Krawedziarz (Monk - General) — six distinct mechanical issues, each with a concrete alternative; Depownik (Druid - General) — numerical proof that Elemental Synthesis delivers only +15.6 ML; Sleketom (Sorcerer - New Spell) — party-conditional rune nerf as compromise
Bottom Line (Phase 2)
Paladin is the only vocation where CipSoft demonstrably responded to Phase 1 feedback; every other vocation either saw no change to their core complaints or was measurably made worse. The pattern of launching Phase 2 without promised fixes (Knight, Monk) has compounded existing frustration into a credibility problem — players no longer trust the feedback loop itself.