u/Grantman622

Point 1: Lack of Proof

A lack of proof is often cited as a reason for why a God cannot exist, citing that the burden of proof is required for acceptance of a God. The religious argument is obviously that religion is based on belief, and not proof. Many atheists scoff at this idea, saying that belief is not reflective of scientific proof, and therefore is unfounded. However, there are many everyday things that we believe in without empirical evidence. For example, separation of gender identity from sex identity is based entirely on the belief that you can reject the scientific facts that are presented, based on a belief that has no physical evidence. A divine perspective on gender identity would argue that the person, the conscious, the spirit of an individual that is gender queer is simply different from the mere scientific facts.

Another example would be the human conscious. Everyone (I assume, there is no empirical proof) knows what it feels like to be conscious. However, the physical properties of the brain do not explain consciousness, the best we can do is establish a correlational link between the two. There is no way to physically measure consciousness, yet, it is widely accepted to be true.

Point 2: Science and Religion are not exclusive

Science is an inherently adaptive field based entirely around trying to explain the world of which we are a part. However, science is not a perfect thing. It is curious and data driven yes, but is often wrong.

Take the Bohr model, or Lamarckism, or Miasma Theory. Each of these scientific models explained the world well with the information made available, yet, were eventually proven wrong.

How did we find out that these theories were wrong? By disproving them. This is to point out that science is not based around stating explicit truths, but instead seeks to make highly likely models based on what we can *disprove*. The Bohr model was rejected because it couldn't explain atomic emissions, and we made our next best guess.

It is impossible to disprove a God, as it could not be tested, and therefore the existence of one is plausible.

Point 3: The Existence of a God does not require a reason

Many will cite a lack of a reason for a God as evidence against one. "What does insertion of a God explain?" The issue here is many facts exist without reason, whether or not we can measure its presence. For example, we did not always know mathematical principles, despite their inherit existence. If a God exists, then it would be a mere fact. Just like the fact that 1+1=2. There doesn't have to be a reason, it just is there.

Wrap Up:

To be fair, I am not seeking to prove a God. That kinda goes against the whole idea of one. However, I think many people quickly write off the mere possibility that a God can exist based entirely on their own availability heuristics. In a less formal fashion, I think that a big reason I personally believe in a God is because I do think humans are very special. We can think, we can create, we can act irrationally. Also, I believe in fate, that everything happens for a reason. A God and a fate seem pretty interconnected, no? Either way, IDK this is just some insight from someone who won't just go "hurr durr da Bible says God made all da animalzzz." I'm not saying you have to drop to your knees and pray, but if you can accept a science that is wrong at times; if you can accept math without reason, why does a religion have to be 100% infallible and understood?

Ok now go wild

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u/Grantman622 — 15 days ago

Cellular metabolism does a lot of to move around high energy bonds. The idea that everything just 'came together randomly' is kind of crazy to me. In the formation of life, buy the synthesis of macromolecules- I can see molecules coming together spontaneously. My issue is the jump from strands of RNA to LUCA. I don't really buy that the universe would randomly create a system of energy storage and release, doesn't that just go against the whole idea of entropy?

If life were truly random, why would a LUCA even form? How would the universe create a random vesicle that is transferring energy from one spot to another? Why is LUCA storing energy in specific molecules? Why would our metabolism be so complex when mere combustion of glucose would be much more dominant and common?

I like to think, as one of those God-ers, that there is a God. I was raised Christian so that's obviously the right cannon (/j), but I would argue the presence of any God-like force would explain this energetic conundrum. Life exists because there is a being beyond our comprehension that made it. Evolution was facilitated.

Edit: I would like to mention that, while I said all of this with very base level science, I am a 4th year chemistry major who has taken upper level cell biology, evolution, biochem, physics, and general chemistry classes. I am applying to medical school in a month. Yes I know that is authority bias but IDK a bunch of people have implied that a complete rejection of science is where my thoughts come from, I heavily disagree.

I buy macromolecules being formed at heated vents (i mean come on now who wouldn't). I buy evolution (homologous characteristics, again come on now). I just think that going from RNA (a molecule that can be easily drawn), to just saying 'Yeah so science has rules and LUCA happened." Ok great. We have a sea of amino acids and RNA, and they get surrounded by a lipid vesicle. Awesome. How does that turn into a thing capable of metabolism (please challenge me on metabolic processes), cellular division, etc. What energetic force is pushing it forward. LUCA should have just burnt up.

There is one person who actually sent a scientific argument about what allowed the energetic conditions for a LUCA, (something involving heat gradients? I haven't finished reading it yet, but it seems very plausible actually). Other than that, I have not seen a scientific rule that allows overcoming the activation energy needed for lifes many processes.

My argument is a challenging of the easy acceptance of 'life just happened.' Life is so freaking complex bro. I think it would be just as likely that a God or 'random' (not sure why that word is so hated) conditions could have made life. No one idea behind the origin of life is more or less valid based merely on the means of formation.

I do have some other ideas behind what could imply a God outside of this, but the main point here is that if two things are equally likely then one is no more just than the other.

Edit 2: Also heres the paper that was the best counter I saw, if anyone would like to look at it

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0895717794901880

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u/Grantman622 — 16 days ago