u/GoodNightMsMoon

Core Theme: Two men who would masquerade their depression behind luxurious masks and lifestyles. Early in their lives they moved to a new state to start a new life, meeting new people, one of which would go on to become their love interest. In this new life however, both would get swallowed up in criminality, trying and failing to escape it and redeem themselves. They would eventually be engulfed by it, leading to them passing a point of no return and later getting arrested, only now finally realizing who they truly were and how they were going to get better. Life’s a bitch and you keep on living.

Connections/Contrasts/Themes:

• Contrast: As children, Jimmy/Saul would have a good life, his parents spoiling and loving him, even putting him above his own brother; Bojack’s parents would hate and resent him, degrading and neglecting him and seeing him as a failure who ruined their lives
• Over time however, both would begin to look up to certain individuals (Despite having a good childhood, Jimmy would look up to the scammers who ripped off his dad; Despite having a bad childhood, Bojack would look up to Secretariat, a race horse who was seen as a national hero)
• Both were good people at heart, but the environments they surrounded themselves in and the people they interacted with would change them (Jimmy was a good person, someone who always wanted to fight for the underdog and help them, but he surrounded himself with scammers and criminals, leading to him becoming a criminal himself; Bojack was a good person despite his upbringing, but those he met during his youth and on set would turn him into an alcoholic and drug addict, leading to him developing into a piece of shit)
• Furthering into their lives, both would set their sights on a goal (Jimmy wanted to be a lawyer, like his brother Chuck; Bojack wanted to be an actor and comedian, working alongside his found friend Herb)
• Now involved in this new life, both would be pretty terrible at it and struggle (Jimmy would be struggling financially, barely getting any clients, and those who he could get he’d fail in court; While Horsin’ Around was successful financially, the show was critically hated and seen as shit, a bad version of Mr. PeanutButter’s knock off)
• This failure would change them, leading to them sinking deeper into a life that would ruin them (Jimmy would begin to work for criminals, cartel members, he would begin to carry out actual crimes for his work; Bojack would begin to drink, smoke, do drugs, neglect and abuse those around him)
• This change would spark a bitter hatred between them and the one closest to them who they worked with (Chuck/Herb), this hatred would carry all the way up until their death, where they would have one final argument with each other before they (Chuck/Herb) would pass away
• Both would be there for their mothers as they passed, sitting by their sides, but Jimmy would get up and leave briefly, his mother calling out to him; Bojack would stay by his mother’s side, but as she passed she wouldn’t even acknowledge him, looking past him
• In this new life, both would meet many new faces and form a new group around themselves 
• One of these friends would be a good hearted and always upbeat man, someone who was there for them at every turn, but they didn’t see it and resented them (Jimmy would meet Howard Hamlin, a bright and upbeat man who would secretly fight for Jimmy, arguing with Chuck, Jimmy had no clue however and thought Howard was out to get him, leading to Jimmy developing a strong hatred for him; Bojack would meet Mr. PeanutButter, a bright and upbeat dog who would be there for him at every turn, always on his side, despite this Bojack resented him, finding him annoying and hating him for his success) 
• Another friend would be a more comedic character who would serve as their right hand man (Jimmy would meet Huel; Bojack would meet Todd)
• Another of these friends would be a woman who they’d have a complicated love-hate relationship with, filled with constant fighting and bickering. This woman would always be with them however, on their side at almost every turn, until they couldn’t be (Jimmy would meet Kim Wexler, a woman who he’d go on to marry and later divorce. Throughout the entire story she’d be on his side and batting for him, trying to protect and help him, but this would come to an end at the climax when she realizes she can’t do this anymore; Bojack would meet Diane Nguyen, a woman who he’d secretly harbor feelings for, but would never be able to act on them. She’d be by his side through most of the story, writing about him and refusing to do things that would explicitly harm him, this support would continue all the way up until the climax, where she’d no longer be able to go alongside him)
• As they both sank deeper into this new world of crime and destruction, they would try and fail continuously to redeem themselves (Jimmy would try to be a good lawyer and do the moral thing, but when it continuously didn’t work out he’d become a criminal lawyer, and change his name to Saul Goodman; Bojack would try to change, but each and every time he’d fall back into the world of drugs and alcohol, eventually giving up and fully embracing this life)
• As this continued, they’d eventually pass a point of no return, something that could have been prevented if it weren’t for them and their behaviors (Saul’s support of Lalo and the cartel and his constant harassment of Howard would eventually lead to Howard’s murder; Bojack’s failures to get clean would eventually drag Sarah Lynn down with him, leading to her dying of a drug overdose)
• This crime would mark the beginning of the end for them, something that would come back to bite them after a while (Howard’s murder marked the point of Jimmy fully embracing Saul, leading to him becoming a full time cartel lawyer, helping Gus Fring and later Walter White; Sarah Lynn’s death would eventually come back to bite Bojack, with it getting exposed and leading to him becoming hated by everyone, eventually leading to him relapsing back into drugs and nearly drowning to death)
• At the end of their stories, both would get arrested, but this would be a good thing for them (Saul, once more Jimmy, would admit to everything he had done, getting imprisoned but finally being free; Bojack getting arrested would allow him to get completely clean and learn who he truly was)
• Both would have a pretty good time in prison (The inmates loved Jimmy because of his past, with him becoming a celeb within the prison; Bojack would be a celeb within prison, even acting alongside other inmates)
• The final shot of both of their stories would be them with the woman they loved (Jimmy and Kim giving fingerguns; Bojack with Diane on the roof)
• A strong motivation behind them was their constant desire for the ‘good old days’ (Saul, after fleeing and becoming Gene Takavic, would fall back into being a scammer and criminal, needing it to ‘feel alive’ again; Bojack would constantly clamber for the good old days of his past, where he was a beloved star)
• Both would masquerade and hide their depression behind the glamorous lives they lived and played up characters (Saul would hide his misery behind his character as Saul Goodman and his luxurious lifestyle; Bojack would hide his depression behind constant partying and being a big celebrity)
• Both would use their charisma and sleaziness to get what they want (Jimmy/Saul would manipulate people into giving him what he wanted, whether it be scamming them or convincing them he is a celeb to have sex; Bojack would use his status as a celeb to sleep with women and get out of things)
• Both would interact with a dude acted by Aaron Paul, very funny

Fight Potential:

Set up- After getting into legal trouble, Bojack calls Saul. As Bojack sits in Saul’s waiting room, Walter White enters. Who Bojack manages to recognize as Heisenberg somehow, probably from a drug filled prophecy. Instead of going to the police like an actually intelligent person, he instead decides to take Saul to court, thinking that if he wins he can get bailed out of jail and get Saul and Walt arrested.

The Fight: Being a dumbass, Bojack decides to act as his own lawyer, despite having zero knowledge in the field of law. The main portion of the fight would take place in court, with Bojack and Saul going back in forth, both bringing in evidence of the other’s past crimes (Bojack bringing up the Chicago Sunroof incident and Saul’s lesser crimes; Saul would bring up Bojack’s drug binges and his general-being-a-piece-of-shit behavior). For support, Bojack would have his friends in court, messing with Saul by stealing evidence, planting fake evidence in his files, and generally harassing him. Outside of court, Bojack would have his friends start smear campaigns against Saul, creating ads, spreading the news, and writing articles to paint him in a bad light and bring up his past actions. In response, Saul would have Mike, Huell, and the other guy that is always with Huel chase them down, trying to stop them; this would lead to a lot of comedic moments and interactions between the two teams. Saul would also hire his big guys to shut down Bojack’s crew, having them hack their accounts and websites to stop them, and spreading their own news about Bojack. After the first day in court, Bojack and Saul would go back home, but would continue fighting and bickering. You could have them show up at each other’s places to either physically argue, or fuck with each other (such as Saul throwing bowling balls at Bojack’s car or Bojack giving Saul his own Chicago Sunroof). Next would come the second day of court, in which both would have more evidence on each other, but would be angrier, leading to them screaming at each other Chicanery style, slowly devolving into just them screaming random nonsense. After the second day of court, they would begin to really investigate each other. Similarly to his time in the Philbert episodes, Bojack would act as a detective and begin to REALLY look into Saul’s past and Walter White being Heisenberg (his friends would help him). At the same time, Saul would have his guys, most notably Mike, dig into Bojack’s past. Both of them would catch wind of this and step in to stop each other, meeting up outside of court and having a huge fight. The evidence they would uncover: Bojack was responsible for Sarah Lynn’s death and Saul was responsible for Howard Hamlin’s death and was protecting Heisenberg/Walter White. With this evidence nearing the surface, they would both be on high alert and panicked. Soon the third day of court would come, both would be ready to pounce and expose the truth. Now at the climax of the battle, the winner will be decided by who can successfully reveal the truth about the other, leading to them getting arrested for their crimes. To summarize: the AP is a dumbass throwing his friends and everything he has at a professional in hopes of winning. 

Animation Potential: The fight would be animated in the style of Bojack Horseman (show) with some Slippin’ Jimmy elements thrown in. In court, when Saul brings in and plays evidence against Bojack, the art style could change to that of the blue one that is used when Bojack is calling himself a piece of shit over and over again. At some points live action could be used, notably when an ad for Saul plays or when an ad in support of Bojack plays, using a real horse in place of him.

Interaction Potential: This battle allows for an insane amount of interaction potential given how many characters are involved. Between Saul and Bojack, you can have a lot of funny moments and heartfelt moments as Saul begins to panic and his facade of being a happy lawyer falters, leading to the two talking solemnly about how unhappy they are in life. Mike and Todd could have a moment together, with Mike commenting on how Todd feels familiar (Sharing a VA with Jesse Pinkman and generally being similar to the character). Saul’s supporters can try to hack P.C. and Diane, harassing them by sending messages across their devices or flooding them with insulting newspapers and letters. You can have scenes of Bojack interacting with the lawyers who used to know Saul (From his Jimmy McGill days), convincing them to side with him, which would obviously end terribly as Bojack is Bojack. 

Track Potential: The track would have the aesthetic and vocals of the Better Call Saul theme, but would be higher energy like the Bojack Horseman theme. I think it should have a sound similar to Weezer’s cover of Mr. Blue Sky, giving it a very happy but at times somewhat sad sounding rock vibe.

Thanks to u/JohnBloodborne14 for the second TN

#3 most wanted

Old TN I made months ago, but eh

Ranking:

Core Theme: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Connections: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Contrast: George Bailey (It's A Wonderful Life)

Debate: George Bailey (It's A Wonderful Life)

Banter Potential: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Story Potential: George Bailey (It's A Wonderful Life)

Analysis Potential: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Fight Potential: George Bailey (It's A Wonderful Life)

Music Potential: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Animation Potential: Bill (It's Such A Beautiful Day)

Series Combo: Susumu Nakoshi (Homunculus)

Legacy: Bill (It's Such A Beautiful Day)

For The Memes: No One

Aesthetic: Susumu Nakoshi (Homunculus)

Least Favorite: Room (_Boisvert)

Most Likely: Bill (It's Such A Beautiful Day)

Personal Bias: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Favorite: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Favorite Alt: George Bailey (It's A Wonderful Life)

Tier List:

The One: Bojack Horseman (Bojack Horseman)

Good Alts: George Bailey (It's A Wonderful Life), Bill (It's Such A Beautiful Day), Susumu Nakoshi (Homunculus)

It's Fine: No One

Meh: Hitori Gotoh (Bocchi the Rock!)

Bottom Of The Barrel: Room (_Boisvert), Omori (Omori)

Core Theme: Two animal appearing protagonists of deceptive series about suffering, misery, and addiction. Both would have troublesome lives filled with childhood abuse, women, and sex. In the end both would nearly die in a moment of impulsive out lash, but would be saved and left to live out the rest of their lives as the greatest punishment.

• Two protagonists of series which, on the surface, look different compared to what they actually contain within their contents (Oyasumi PunPun looks like a cutesy story with a small bird protagonist, in actuality it is a series that covers dark topics such as abuse, trauma, and suicide; Bojack Horseman on the surface is an animated show, giving it the appearance of being a full on comedy, in actuality it’s a show that covers dark topics, such as abuse, trauma, suicide, and addiction)
• Both PunPun and Bojack are represented as animals (PunPun is represented as a small bird, but later grows up to be represented as a person with an elongated head, as well as geometric shapes; Bojack is a horse, an anthropomorphic horse with a human body)
• As children, both lived in abusive households (PunPun’s mother screamed at him, bringing him to tears, his father later beat her to the point of being hospitalized and was arrested; Bojack’s father abandoned his family when Bojack was a child, leaving him with his verbally abusive mother)
• They both had great dreams of doing something amazing when they grew up (PunPun wanted to be an astronaut, discovering a new planet to save humanity; Bojack wanted to be like Secretariat, a race horse and hero to the people)
• These dreams wouldn’t end up working out for them, as their lives would spiral into depressive misery (PunPun would go on to become a regular salary mean, living a meaningless life of no joy; Bojack would go on to become a star of Horsin’ Around, but after that his life would spiral out of control and be filled with misery and depression) 
• When they were younger, they met a woman with whom they would, years later, go on to run away with, resulting in her death (PunPun met Aiko, a girl who promised to love him so they could run away together, years later when the two met again they ran off, leading to Aiko hanging herself and taking her own life; Bojack met Sarah Lynn on the set of Horsin’ Around and would lose contact with her for years, later when they reunited, Bojack and Sarah would go on a massive drug binge traveling the country, leading to Sarah having an overdose and passing away)
• Both would meet a woman with whom they’d have a complicated relationship with (PunPun would meet Sachi Nanjou, a woman pursuing a career as a manga artist, the two would kick off into a relationship where she’d actually manage to bring out the good in him; Bojack would meet Diane Nguyen, a woman pursuing a career as a writer, Bojack would have to accept that they would never be together, but regardless she would bring out the good in him)
• Both have a strong sex addiction (PunPun has always been a hyper sexual individual, with him later developing a strong addiction to sex; Bojack sleeps with basically any woman he can, developing a strong sex addiction to try and fill the void in his life)
• Both are self destructive, doing things that harm themselves and those that surround them (PunPun is impulsive, choosing to do things that will only bring him short term pleasure but pain in the future; Bojack is an alcoholic, drug addict, sex addict, who tears down any and all good faith surrounding his name)
• At the climax of the series, both would attempt to grievously harm themselves to escape their suffering (PunPun would tear out his eye to get God to leave him alone, leading to him nearly dying and being saved; Bojack would attempt to drown himself to death, leading to him nearly dying and being saved)
• In the end, both would be forced to suffer the greatest punishment of all, continuing to live. The final shot of the series would show them both with the woman they loved (PunPun would be seen with his friends and Sachi; Bojack would be seen sitting on the roof with Diane, staring up at the stars together) 
• Both endings are bittersweet, showing that both characters are getting better, but still suffered a lot and will never be okay

Pushing the PunJack agenda

Core Theme: Life is hard and brutal, it beats us down and it isn’t fair, and yet it is our greatest gift and our greatest punishment, it is something we must cherish through the hardest of times, as things will improve. Despite our suffering and self loathing, our actions have a positive impact on the world around us, touching the lives of many people we meet

Connections: 

• Two protagonists of black and white media that focus heavily on dark topics, notably suicide and how a person can be pushed over the edge and past their breaking point if placed under enough pressure for long enough 
• As children, both had rough upbringings full of trouble and pain (George would be hospitalized as a child, nearly dying and losing hearing in one of his ears. His father would be struggling financially, fighting to keep the family afloat. On a fateful day, George would be tasked to deliver medicine, only for it to turn out to be poison, refusing to deliver it he would flee to his father for help, only to find him being berated and abused. After being turned away, he would be beaten by his boss, causing his ear to bleed, but he would save a life; PunPun’s childhood was miserable for him, with his mother wishing she never had him, his father losing his job and beating his mother, leading to him being barred from seeing his family)
• During their childhoods, both would meet a girl who would promise to love them forever and be together, whom they would meet years later as adults (George would meet Mary, a young girl who promised to love him and be with him, years later they would reunite and marry one another; PunPun would meet Aiko, a girl who promised to run away with PunPun and live happily together, years later they would meet each other and run away together, only for disaster to strike and Aiko to take her own life)
• Both would harbor dreams of grandeur, dreaming to do amazing things (George wanted to explore the world, get a harem, discover things, get out of Bedford Falls; PunPun wanted to go to space, discover planets and save humanity by discovering ‘Planet PunPun’)
• But this wouldn’t happen, instead the harsh reality of life would beat down on them and take these dreams away, leaving them trapped in a life they didn’t want to live in (George’s father would pass away, forcing him to take over the business, later after getting married, he’d be forced to give up his money to save his bank, trapping him in Bedford Falls as a regular salary man; PunPun’s dreams were too unrealistic and given the harsh upbringing he had, he was never able to accomplish them. PunPun’s life would devolve into that of a regular salary man living a regular depressive life)
• During this time they would begin to grow depressive and develop self loathing (George would begin to feel miserable, trapped in Bedford Falls, never accomplishing anything with his life; PunPun would feel depressive and miserable, feeling extreme despair every day of his life, hiding in his room all alone among other things)
• A majority of their self loathing and misery would come from their own self destructive actions, but in contrasting ways (See Contrasts section) 
• As these feelings would build, they’d eventually peak and climax with them attempting to take their own lives and harm themselves (George would, in a manic episode, attack his family and flee to a bar, then flee to a bridge in hopes of committing suicide; PunPun would, in a manic episode, flee to an abandoned factory from his childhood and tear out his own eyeball, nearly bleeding to death in the progress)
• This attempt on their own life would involve a Godlike entity and they’d both survive (Before George could jump, an angel, Clarence, would appear and jump instead, forcing him to save his life. After this, Clarence would show George a world in which he was never born, changing his outlook on life and saving him; PunPun would attempt to tear out his own eye to stop Afro-God from harassing him and ruining his life. PunPun wouldn’t die however, instead he’d be found and taken to the hospital to recover)
• Throughout their lives they were watched by a Godlike entity with contrasting desires (George was watched by God, Joseph, and Clarence, who wanted the best for him; PunPun was watched by Afro-God, who wanted him to suffer, be miserable, and do terrible things to himself and others)
• At the end of the story, both would be seen surrounded by their friends, getting better and improving (George would be seen getting showered in money, saving his bank and preventing him from getting jailed, this would come from his friends and family; PunPun would be seen with his friends, Sachi, and her daughter, finally reverting back to the bird appearance he had as a child, instead of the disturbing long necked demon form)

Contrasts:

• George is a selfless man, one who gives everything for everyone in hopes of helping them, but this harms himself, taking away his hopes for an exciting future and making him feel miserable; PunPun is a selfish individual, doing things solely for his own pleasure and desire, which harms himself and others, making everyone including himself feel miserable
• Life is our greatest gift vs Life is our greatest punishment. George is shown that life is our greatest gift by Clarence, something we need to cherish and hold close; PunPun survives and is forced to live his life, having gone through so much suffering and pain, being punished with more living for his terrible actions and behaviors

Animation Potential:

Given the fact that neither of these two are very VS applicable, George does attack his family at the climax of the film and PunPun does attack Aiko’s mom, the AP for this wouldn’t seem to work, but you’d be wrong.

The AP for this would center around Clarence and Afro-God, the two of them watching over George and PunPun and trying to influence them. The fight set up would involve George and PunPun meeting, at the end of the line and unable to take much more, only for Clarence to intervene; Afro-God seeing this, would then appear as well. As the fight begins, Clarence and Afro-God take George and PunPun to an alternate reality where neither had been born, to show them what life would be like if neither had been born. As this is happening, Afro-God is berating the both of them and trying to push them over the edge by saying things like, “See how much nicer/better off everyone is if you had never been born?” This would agitate both George and PunPun who would occasionally swing at one another, but would be stopped by Clarence who would desperately try to keep both under control. As the fight continues, both would shift from ‘I want to die’ to ‘I want to live’ and back as they are shown and told new things. At the climax of the battle, the two of them would be feeling two different things, with George feeling better and hopeful and PunPun feeling worse off. This contrast in feels would lead to PunPun attempting a ‘way out,’ only for George to intervene and try to stop him, leading to the two of them fighting.

Given the unique nature of this battle, death could end in a few unique ways. If you want to follow the themes of the original stories, then neither have to die; the ending can be a stalemate with both surviving. If someone HAS to die, then you could lean into the suicide theme and have one of them commit suicide, either PunPun committing after breaking free from George, or George sacrificing himself to change PunPun’s mind and get him to live, similar to how he nearly sacrificed himself for Clarence. If a suicide death is too messed up/upsetting, then you can have the win be different. In this case, if PunPun wins then he manages to defeat Afro-God and overcome his intrusive thoughts, if George wins then he’d overcome his hopelessness, what would happen to the loser? They’d sadly remain that way, having been defeated by their opponent overcoming their own struggles whilst they failed to.

IK George isn't the most conventional character for VS... but eh

BFB

Agenda or something

Core Theme: Two animal appearing protagonists of deceptive series about suffering, misery, and addiction. Both would have troublesome lives filled with childhood abuse, women, and sex. In the end both would nearly die in a moment of impulsive outlash, but would be saved and left to live out the rest of their lives as the greatest punishment.

• Two protagonists of series which, on the surface, look different compared to what they actually contain within their contents (Oyasumi PunPun looks like a cutesy story with a small bird protagonist, in actuality it is a series that covers dark topics such as abuse, trauma, and suicide; Bojack Horseman on the surface is an animated show, giving it the appearance of being a full on comedy, in actuality it’s a show that covers dark topics, such as abuse, trauma, suicide, and addiction)
• Both PunPun and Bojack are represented as animals (PunPun is represented as a small bird, but later grows up to be represented as a person with an elongated head, as well as geometric shapes; Bojack is a horse, an anthropomorphic horse with a human body)
• As children, both lived in abusive households (PunPun’s mother screamed at him, bringing him to tears, his father later beat her to the point of being hospitalized and was arrested; Bojack’s father abandoned his family when Bojack was a child, leaving him with his verbally abusive mother)
• They both had great dreams of doing something amazing when they grew up (PunPun wanted to be an astronaut, discovering a new planet to save humanity; Bojack wanted to be like Secretariat, a race horse and hero to the people)
• These dreams wouldn’t end up working out for them, as their lives would spiral into depressive misery (PunPun would go on to become a regular salary mean, living a meaningless life of no joy; Bojack would go on to become a star of Horsin’ Around, but after that his life would spiral out of control and be filled with misery and depression) 
• When they were younger, they met a woman with whom they would, years later, go on to run away with, resulting in her death (PunPun met Aiko, a girl who promised to love him so they could run away together, years later when the two met again they ran off, leading to Aiko hanging herself and taking her own life; Bojack met Sarah Lynn on the set of Horsin’ Around and would lose contact with her for years, later when they reunited, Bojack and Sarah would go on a massive drug binge traveling the country, leading to Sarah having an overdose and passing away)
• Both would meet a woman with whom they’d have a complicated relationship with (PunPun would meet Sachi Nanjou, a woman pursuing a career as a manga artist, the two would kick off into a relationship where she’d actually manage to bring out the good in him; Bojack would meet Diane Nguyen, a woman pursuing a career as a writer, Bojack would have to accept that they would never be together, but regardless she would bring out the good in him)
• Both have a strong sex addiction (PunPun has always been a hyper sexual individual, with him later developing a strong addiction to sex; Bojack sleeps with basically any woman he can, developing a strong sex addiction to try and fill the void in his life)
• Both are self destructive, doing things that harm themselves and those that surround them (PunPun is impulsive, choosing to do things that will only bring him short term pleasure but pain in the future; Bojack is an alcoholic, drug addict, sex addict, who tears down any and all good faith surrounding his name)
• At the climax of the series, both would attempt to grievously harm themselves to escape their suffering (PunPun would tear out his eye to get God to leave him alone, leading to him nearly dying and being saved; Bojack would attempt to drown himself to death, leading to him nearly dying and being saved)
• In the end, both would be forced to suffer the greatest punishment of all, continuing to live. The final shot of the series would show them both with the woman they loved (PunPun would be seen with his friends and Sachi; Bojack would be seen sitting on the roof with Diane, staring up at the stars together) 
• Both endings are bittersweet, showing that both characters are getting better, but still suffered a lot and will never be okay