u/GilliganIsles

thought id give an update on my toxic lab situation (that ive posted here before) and just general motivation for myself and others in a similar situation. mostly because yall have been so kind commenting on my posts thank you. TLDR: mdphd student was getting forced back to medical school early without easy chance of defending before then.

So, my PI actually fought for me to stay a fourth year (pretty easily for her) without acknowledging shes the one who wanted me out of her lab early to begin with (she said it was my committees fault solely). and 2025 went well. she thought I was working hard and such. I got a paper in pre print.

this year begins and overall feel like im doing well. I do a big RNA experiment that sadly needed to be redone. it was obvious some samples were mislabeled (either by me or the pellets I processed in the freezer had been mislabeled hard to say). a big costly mistake, of which I acknowledge and apologize for and begin working to get new cell pellets fresh for the mistake samples, plus a requirement I do extra QC to make sure its all good. for context we can tell which samples would be which by a couple of genes (not too many details because I fear if they'd read this tbh) and those genes can be checked by PCR easily. its taking me time and im busy writing a grant application among other things. And things do slip for me a bit in the sense my physical health issues really affect my energy and hours plus my grant being finished last minute as I busy with health and benchwork and fixing this RNA plus a few things. and I just get plopped with a ton of new experiments I have to do and im overwhelmed. plus class requirements.

Anyway, so I get the conversation once again that im lazy and unproductive and theres no excuse for it. and apparently its believed i have done nothing for three months. and then I do inform my PI about my health and my overwhelm and ask for advice. she seems okay with it. then she degrades me for 45 minutes in lab meeting and implies that im lazy, just doing it for the CV, need people to "hold my hand and do things for me", will cost the lab its existence and imply her failed grant applications may be due to lack of productivity. she also had implied I have issues asking for help maybe its "my ego" (I actually do ask for help to usually no help, or im too scared because shes mad). She lies to the lab thst my grant didnt get sent to the NIH (it did) and that im behind on school work because an email shes cc'd in (i am not. its a task i must do but there was no exact deadline). this time its worse because to varying degrees my lab mates kind of agree with her. person A and her later go on to imply I have an "iffy track record with mistakes and its just who I am as a person." A acknowledges ive made 3 total major mistakes in three years and that does in fact make me an iffy person and its because i work "too fast" or "distracted" (whereas A says he never makes mistakes). ive begun working 12-14 hour days instead of 8. I feel stupid, lazy, like I dont deserve to have ever gotten here. im worried once again I wont be allowed to defend and will have been a failure. It's always like this. its a lab i cannot ever slow down or need help to get back up. mistakes are punishable and a waste of money and time for data. as she tells me there will be 0 tolerance going forward for any mistakes and i am not allowed to make them. she laughs at me when I tell her I am getting to lab 3 hours earlier in the morning. I dont get advice from the lab because most of its just her telling me I need to do every task all at once 24/7 and just "work harder". she once again threatens to make someone else do my project. that id be at fault if the lab shuts down.

this is a lab the school never let me switch out of. they like my PI and disagree with her mentorship style. but say she wont ever fail me because thats illogical even though she talks to influential PIs and department heads to tell them im lazy all the time. im afraid she wont write me a good letter even if I do somehow make it. shes told Person B that she'll purposefully write a negative rec letter to Person C ruining her chances at a phd.

but I had a revelation recently that no matter what even if this woman costs me my dreams of science due to systemic reasons I cant control, I will be allowed back and make it through medical school where I excel. and I remind myself constantly that even if it was true that I was lazy and stupid and egotistical and unmotivated 24/7, none of these ways of communicating it are okay. i deserve mentorship if I really need it, not degradation. I deserve to be held accountable but given tools to move forward from mistakes and not have them weaponized against me as "making me an iffy person" and then told everyone else is perfect and that im the only person who "needs reminding to work hard". I do work hard. and I have faith i will get out of here somehow.

I think a lot about what itll look like. the grief i might have if im not allowed to be a scientist because of her. Or, I do make it out and what i want to do but have to navigate doing it without that toxicity anymore. what kind of trauma will I carry? I really dream about the day I will be able to post here i made it out. And I think my best advice out there is to get a support network that isnt your lab or your PI or the school admin if they wont help or partially agree with your situation. my friends and parents ( +therapist) are the reason I know i dont deserve this. and pray me and you others make it out too. I also am trying to write a prose poetry essay about my experiences here and maybe ill publish it one day. and I also hope I get the choice to be a scientist and mentor people differently, without degradation.

thanks lab rats for always listening and such.

Hello, I am an MD/PhD student in my 4th year of phD (final year). Seeking advice and support on how to survive the final year really. Survive from normal stresses: crunch time, writing, returning to medical school, etc. And Surviving the ramped up toxicity from my toxic PI.

To give some context my PI is pretty verbally abusive and she went from being really supportive to routine degradation of me. Accusing me of being lazy, accusing me of being unproductive, accusing me of just doing it for the CV, etc. But she's never really one for solutions. "You're lazy" "Should I work more hours" then she'll respond "the amount of hours don't matter its your productivity". Then she'll change her mind and say "more hours" and I say "how many" and then she gets angry I ask. Department requested I start tracking hours so she can give comment, she got mad and said "I dont care I will never look at that." A lot of things that does affect my productivity is I mostly trained myself, do things alone, or use my lab members (until like 3 months ago, no postdocs/PhD/staff scientsits just techs and a lab manager) for mentorship.

My aim 2 of my thesis was a productivity bomb because instead of siRNA knockdowns of some factors of interest she wanted to do a reversible inducible system that was very complex and I told her I have no CRISPR/genetic engineering/etc experience. And I followed her expectations "by this date, do this", 'by this date do this". And in august of 2024 we came to a planned out experimental goal and then a month later she told me I dropped the ball and I'm lazy and I'm running her lab into the ground and holding it hostage. She then threatened to fire me (she cannot do this) and really she meant she wanted to stop mentoring me and force me to join her collaborators lab (also can't do this). And then she acknowledged in December she was at fault for assuming I knew what I was doing and realized she should've mentored me. BUt then she barely mentored me and concluded I am the type of person whose bad at asking for help (implied that it might be an ego thing). I also told her its hard to ask for help when A, her doors always closed (she got mad and said "how dare you tell me that"), B she doesnt help when you ask (i said more professionally that she doesnt know the answer), C sometimes shes unreceptive to helping (in a bad mood).

Anyway, this + jabs like I'm always sick/geriatric (i have migraines and other disabilities), that i dont do enough, etc. Plus punishment for making mistakes big or small. Accusations I don't care about the data/big picture as much as her. Me having to do everyone's work when they're on vacation but when they have to do something for me on vacation it "pisses them off" because they don't know what they're doing. Being 100% responsible for our mouse colony with no aide for ages. And I have a shit committee she never wanted to change.

And then it culminated last may that they and my PI and the dean of the program behind my back decided they were going to force me back to medical school early and even if I couldn't defend before then, they said "we will make an exception for you and you'll just have to defend in M4 year". Because My "project isnt going anywhere and isn't going to get into nature and its really not that interesting" says my PI. And then, she suddenly changed her mind October 2025 saying "man you really need a 4th year? too bad your evil committee wont let me!" then she got permission from another dean to "let me" stay a 4th year (by the way, when i joined the lab i said my estimated time and acceptable time frame was 3.5 to 4 years). Then I had a wonderful committee meeting in 2025 Fall, so I guess I was good.

Till now, April 2026. My PI is back on saying I am unproductive lazy, dropping the ball. I didn't realize she felt that way and so when she asked for a reason I couldn't think of one. I told her about my disabilities in intimate details but told her I didn't want to use it as an excuse (because I know she wouldn't accept it). And then I told her that truthfully I am overwhelmed by a bunch of new tasks she gave me and I am unclear where to start. She told me "it's 2024 all over again where you can't communicate your needs to me" but seemed pleased I wanted help. Lab meeting happens, she degrades me in front of everyone and says "some people in this lab need reminding they need to work hard" (me, while everyone else is perfect of course). And this time, my lab partially agrees with her this time it is all me and I'm unproductive and dropping the ball (to varying degrees and reasons). And then we have a meeting to get advice delegating tasks and her expectation of me is to do everything all together all at once "in parallel" (also why things are hard she doesn't believe in doing things sequentially ever). And I am also told that my "track record as a PhD student is Iffy because I make tons of mistakes." My lab manager acknowledged in my total of 4 years I've made 3 major mistakes, which I'd agree with that number, but that does in fact make me an "iffy student", unlike him who works slow and methodical so he's never made any major mistakes ever. And my PI said she will "no longer have patience for mistakes" and I am "not allowed to make them anymore". The truth is, my RNA-seq experiment failed due to a mistake which seemed like samples swapped (from a specific gene we can tell that the samples were swapped). And yes, I acknowledge that something happened to cause that. I cannot say why. I apologized. I am working tirelessly to redo the experiment.

And so I have to pretend I agree with them, and smile, and accept it. Because whenever I've fought back it's gotten worse and I can't risk my lab not helping me because they think I'm too "argumentative". And I know some people may ask, why not tell program heads? I did. Multiple times. They concluded It's all my fault and I have issues adjusting and that "even though my PI's approach is not what they'd do, her reasons for degrading me is acceptable". And they "asked other PIs who agree everything's my fault". And then I demanded a new lab and they said they'd fire me/take away my predoctoral grant illegally and I'd be considered "unemployed" in another lab and have to pay tuition and health insurance and no stipend. And the only advice everyone can give me is "work more hours, work harder, focus better".

So, I reach out to PhD students and those who've graduated, post docs. Just give me advice how to survive. I am not saying I've never made mistakes, or never drop the ball, or have had lulls in productivity. A lot of stems from my toxic environment and the self sufficiency. I worry once again as the toxicity ramps up my final year they wont let me defend, and I will fail. And I will have wasted all this time. And I won't be successful, or that I won't be able to postdoc some day because my PI will write me a bad letter/no letter. And please do not ask me to try to get a new lab, I promise you that avenue is wasted and no one cares at my university. The tol on my mental health is great and I feel like I am lazy and a failure and imperfect and ruining the lab because of it, and that too affects my productivity especially when I have to pretend to be grateful for said comments and never cry (my PI hates when I cry/says it wont get me anywhere). Though do not worry about mental health advice I have a great therapist and am alright with a great support network, I just meant more...survival advice and how not to let them get to me per say.

Thank you for listening.