u/Endzoy

Ok guys, help, I'm kinda out of ideas.

I'm a main VI player (played over 300 games since all the Unleashed cards were added to tcg and riftatlas), and I think I know all the in and outs pretty well. I know that with the right setup Vi can beat any deck, but really struggles with purple color, green color, and especially with both those colors at the same time. Now don't get me wrong, I still sometimes win vs. Vex and SOMETIMES vs. Irelia, but it feels more like opponent fumbles than actual wins.

How to deal with Irelia?

So I've heard Irelia struggles agains yellow. Hm. Not in my experience:
- Cull the Weak? Zhonya, GA, or maybe just a little beetle sitting somewhere in the corner counter it easily.
- Salvage? Oh man, yeah, that doesn't change anything, besides it gets countered.
- Hm, maybe stuns? Yeah right, lemme just cast Flash real quick. Or even better, Ride the Wind, so I'll score on my way.
- Straight up fight? You wish. Discipline. Oh, you have Cleave? Here, have a second Discipline, Defy and Defiant Dance.

Damn. Alright, so maybe a war of attrition? At some point those Disciplines must run out?
- Yeah right man, Stellacorn will fill the hand right up.

A sneaky play, some ambush perhaps?
- Uhhh, no, there's the all seeing insect waiting, watching your every step.

Spells?
- Deflect, Defy, repeat.

Prepare and army in base and then attack?
- Charm. Get rekt (staying in base is not the play I think...)

I feel like Irelia has no weaknesses and answers to everything. So my question is: how to beat Irelia?

Hi. I've been playing Vi daily since her cards were added to tcg arena, and I think she has some potential to be a good deck. Not the best one, but she has interesting tools and can be built in multiple ways. I have some thoughts on her, and also I'm looking for ideas to expand her gameplay further.

 

Let's start with Vi's three - in my opinion - biggest weaknesses:

1. Green.

Basically the worst thing, as stuns shut down Vi hard. But if there were only stuns in green, I'd say it's liveable. But Charms massacre Vi's base (and that's where you keep all your units, because they suck at holding) and counterspells counter clutch plays (Tactical Retreat that would save from stuns, readying units with Upstage Comedy etc.)

2. Purple.

Second worst thing are bounces. Star-Crossed is bad, but purple also has stuns. But also has Vex, and also purple avoids fights, which counters Vi (Vi really wants to fight). Ride the Wind not only saves opponent's units, but also usually scores on the second battlefield and disables our legend and Hextech Gauntlets. Vi wants opponents on battlefields, because if we just enter without fight, our only option is to try to run away (again Upstage Comedy or triggering Darius). 

3. Open battlefields.

I mentioned this above, but any strategy that goes in and out of battlefield is bad for Vi. If red had something like The Syren it would be much more manageable, but as of now it's just a strong counter to Vi's gameplan. 

 

DECK VERSIONS
I've started looking for solutions mainly to the third problem, as there are barely any counters to green and purple's shenanigans. I've tried some ideas:

a) playing units, that are valuable, trade well, and have different plays aka midrange

The version of the deck used BF Swords, Yellow Fioras (both of them depending on the situation), Unsung Heroes for card draw etc. It's a midrange deck, which is really good agains decks, that just want to play the game fair and square. Our units are strong, flexible, we have some card draw, but this version is really vulnerable to stuns. We have few units, we invest into them a lot, and each Star-Crossed hits twice as hard, as usually our units are equipped. It also has pretty weak lategame, because Vi gets countered, and we don't have too many runes from constant re-equipping our units. One of my favorite versions, but probably somewhere middle of the pack.

b) deathknell

What if we just didn't care about our units dying? Better yet, what if we got some value from that? This version contains the deathknell package with birds for ramp, Forerunners and Karthuses for doubling that value. It's less stressful to play, that's for sure, but LeBlanc legend does this about twice as well, so it seems kinda redundant. Also Karthuses are a centerpiece, and they are pretty easy to kill. What's cool is that we get more resources along the game, so the endgame feels a bit better. Also this is probably the only version that doesn't need red seals.

c) full on aggro

Sharks with accelerate, Infernas, 3x Kaisa, 3x Darius. This version just attacks. Mostly red units carry the game, accelerate, score, die, repeat. This version I think is the best right now. Gives Vi various plays thanks to cheap red units and is kinda immune to Cull the Weak. No BF Swords though, no Unsung Heroes, so draw is very limited and situational. If we run out of steam, we dead man.

d) phoenixes

What if we not only didn't care about our units, but also could constantly get them back? This version is the most interactive one, as we run Void Missiles and other red removal spells. Spells also count towards excess damage, so it opens up some plays. The problem is this version is a bit slower than the aggro one, and draw is even more limited (Void Missiles are here mostly to help with that). I feel like this has some potential, but again, stuns and bounces hit hard.

 

CARDS TESTED
I've also tested some of those cards, but ultimately I can't find the space for them as of right now:

 - Sacrifice - rarely do we want to sacrifice our own unit without trading, so drawing two and channeling one doesn't seem to justify this. Hidden Blade seems simply better, because it doesn't have any conditions and opens up some help with occasional defence / vs. big units.

 - Deathgrip - what if our 24 might Vi gets stunned? Well, simple, let's just give her might to some other unit. This seems like a decent play, but I've rarely had the occasion to do it, and it's really easy to counter. I might to have some more testing with that tho.

 - Yellow Vi - on paper this seems like an amazing card. But usually this is just a "win more" piece. We don't need stuns when we clear battlefields anyway, and while defending it doesn't stun, so it's hard to justify.

 - Atakhan - tried mostly in the deathknell version, it's pretty cool to sac Forerunner and put in discounted Atakhan. But while is should deal with Irelia (imo the worst matchup Vi has) and other stuns, usually those decks deal with Atakhan pretty easily with bounces or just running away from the battlefield. 

 - Heroic Charge - same case as Yellow Vi, at least works on defence, but it's hard to have 3 energy open each turn.

 

So, these are my thoughts on Vi. What do you guys think? What cards do you think might help with the probles stated above? Did you test any other ideas or different gameplans? I'm constantly looking for improving the Vi deck, as I hate the constand "one-upping" in this game (I play Discipline - I play Cleave - I play En Garde - I play Hextech Ray - I play Defy -> and whoever wins this invested exchange usually wins), and Vi effectively doesn't care about that - the only question is if I get stunned or not, so I'm sticking with her. 

And what are your thoughts?