u/Daurakin

Hello everyone!

Previous week the discussion was about the Monkey Ace. This time around, we have our fifth tower to discuss: The Sniper Monkey!

Here's my overall view of the tower:

Top path - The tier 3 upgrade, Deadly Precision gives Sniper a clean way to deal with a few Ceramics. Tier 4, Maim MOAB is an excellent early MOAB crowdcontroller. Tier 5, Cripple MOAB is quite versatile upgrade: It adds a flat damage amp debuff on MOABs, giving it excellent synergy with fast attackers, while also hitting really hard itself. In addition, it gets a small explosion effect on bullet impact, even giving it a bit of AoE potency without crosspathing. And speaking of which; Both crosspaths are perfectly useable, with middle crosspath adding better general crowdcontrol (and ability to attack camo bloons), while bottom path gives it better single target power and, more importantly, better uptime for its stun/debuff effect.

Mid path - Tier 3's bouncing bullet starts this path into becoming a good cleanup choice for dealing with lots of small bloons. Tier 4 and tier 5 gives it an active ability that sends in cash, along with further improvements to its pierce, number of bounces and attack speed. Tier 5 also grants all Snipers elite targeting, a quite useful targeting option to more strategically handle MOABs and Ceramics, along with providing all other Snipers a decent amount of attack speed bonus. The only issue, imo, that this path really has is that its abilities are very "use immediately on cooldown", which was changed for the Druid's middle path due to the same issue, and how it is used also heavily incentivizes stalling tactics, so that is something that deserves to have a closer look on it. Crosspath-wise, both paths are viable. Generally speaking, if you can't get an Alchemist/Geraldo to buff it, or you need long distance on the bounces, you generally want to go top crosspath. If you can get Alchemist/Geraldo, or don't need long bouncing distance, you generally want to go bottom crosspath. However, neither of these are "necessities" and you can crosspath it according to whatever you feel you need out of it, which is nice.

Bottom path - All the way from tier 1 all the way to tier 5, these upgrades all basically just do one thing with increasing potency: More attack speed! Of note, tier 5 also has even more attack speed the closer bloons get to the exit (which can make microing / Elite targeting useful for optimal DPS) and if you lose a life? You guessed it: EVEN MORE ATTACK SPEED lol! While it is a very functional and viable path to use in many situations, I personally feel it could get some tiny little extra thing added to it so it is not JUST all about attack speed. Crosspathing-wise, both paths are viable: Mid path improves its crowdclearing capabilities (along with camo detection), while top path improves its single target damage output (along with lead popping power). Alternatively, the crosspaths can also be chosen based on what external support you can give them. For example, if you can get easy camo aid, then top path is a good choice to let it deal with all bloons types. Alternatively, if you have anti-lead aid (such as Permabrew, and/or de-leading via midpath Glue Gunner), going middle path is a good choice to also let it deal with all bloon types.

Overall, the Sniper Monkey is a quite cheap and versatile tower with good crosspath choices, which honestly is just a couple of changes away from being perfectly designed, imo.

Suggestions:

• x4x Supply Drop - Renamed Recon Sniper
• x4x Recon Sniper - The Supply Drop ability now has an additional feature: The ship that flies in and drops the supply crate also shoots 4 powerful darts towards the firstmost bloons. These darts move very quickly and home in on bloons with perfect aim, and ricochets between bloons up to 3 times. Each time a dart hits a bloon, it also generates an explosion. So, that's homing, exploding, ricocheting darts! Here are the stats in total:
  • 4 darts launched
  • 10 Normal damage with dart direct hits
  • 3 bounces for each dart
  • 10 Explosion damage with bonus +30 Ceramic damage for the explosion effects
  • 25 pierce for explosions
    • Note: All these stats could absolutely be changed up heavily, it's more a conceptual suggestion than anything else.
• x5x Elite Sniper - The Supply Drop ability also has its ship shoot the homing, exploding, ricochet darts. However, the amount of darts this version of the ability launches is increased from 4 > 12
• x4x Recon Sniper - Supply Drop ability's base cash amount granted reduced from 1100 > 0. However, every time a round finishes, the value of the Supply Drop increases by +300 cash, up to a maximum value of +1500. The value resets to 0 for that specific Supply Drop ability after you use it.
  • These changes are to disincentivize using stalling tactics and/or hiding the Recon/Elite Snipers behind line of sight blockers for optimal cash generation.
  • Note that the suggested cash values could need tweaks to be better balanced; this revamp is more conceptual.
• x5x Elite Sniper - Supply Drop ability's base cash amount granted reduced from 3000 > 0. However, every time a round finishes, the value of the Supply Drop increases by +900 cash, up to a maximum bonus of +4500. The value resets to 0 for that specific Supply Drop ability after you use it.
  • These changes are to disincentivize using stalling tactics and/or hiding the Recon/Elite Snipers behind line of sight blockers for optimal cash generation.
  • Note that the suggested cash values could need tweaks to be better balanced; this revamp is more conceptual.
• x4x Recon Sniper - The Supply Drop ability no longer activates all other Supply Drop abilities at once. However, once you have 2 or more Snipers on the map which have the Supply Drop ability (which includes counting the x5x Elite Sniper's version), you get an additional ability called "Drop All Supplies" which, well, drops all currently ready Supply Drops, heh.
• x5x Elite Sniper - The Supply Drop ability is now a seperate ability from x4x Supply Drop abilities (due to being stronger offensively), but will be used alongside other x4x Supply Drop abilities if pressing the "Drop All Supplies" ability.
• x4x Recon Sniper + x5x Elite Sniper - The Supply Drop abilities no longer have a cap on how many times they can be used per round; Since they generate no cash by default and once they are used to generate cash in a round, they need to finish at least one round first to start gaining economical value again. This means you can use these abilities freely for its damaging purposes an infinite amount of times in a round (similar to other damaging abilities), completely without risk of farming for infinite money!
• xx3 Full Auto Rifle - Bonus damage against stunned (and frozen) bloons increased from +0 > +1. This bonus carries over to xx4 Full Auto Rifle and xx5 Elite Defender as well.
  • Note: For frozen bloons, it only applies if it can also damage them, such as when using the top crosspath or if being buffed by an MIB etc.
• xx5 Elite Defender - Now also spawns a shackling mine on each active bloon track at the start of a round, with the mine(s) positioned at the halfway point on each track. When triggered by bloon proximity it will generate a slowing field for 5 seconds with a 20 unit radius, slowing down all regular bloons by 75% and all MOABs by 37,5%. Triggering a mine also activates the Elite Defender's 4x attack speed bonus, making that aspect of the tower also useable even in CHIMPS mode!
• xx5 Elite Defender - Cost increased from 14900 > 15500

With these suggestions, here's how I see things changing:

(Top path is unchanged, so no comment here)

Mid path

With the Supply Drop abilities for tier 4 and 5 granting no cash at base, but gaining value as you finish rounds + having a cleanup-oriented damaging aspect added to them, their useage changes quite heavily: First, there is no longer any value in stalling or hiding your Snipers for the purposes of improving cash generation - finishing rounds is the only thing that matters for that. Secondly, you can now wait to use these abilities for more dense bloon rounds (or whenever you wanna use them, really) instead of just using them whenever their cooldowns are ready. Thirdly, the abilities now have a clear value even when you can't generate cash, such as in CHIMPs mode.

Bottom path

This path, instead of JUST having attack speed bonuses, now also has bonus damage synergy when attacking stunned (or frozen) bloons, granting it a tiny smudge more flavour (and some innate synergy vs MOABs when combined with a Maim/Cripple MOAB Sniper). Furthermore, while Elite Defender is a bit more expensive, its new shackling mines not only adds a little bit of crowd control (and further flavour to the path), it also allows the Elite Defender to use its special 4x attack speed ability in CHIMPS mode (without the need of Corvus's Soul Barrier spell), making all of this upgrade's aspects have full useage even in gamemodes like that. Since it spawns shackling mines on EACH track, it also gains a bit more value on tougher multi-lane maps (like Quad, Ouch etc). Not to mention, it also further emphasizes the upgrade's name being called Elite DEFENDER, don't you agreed? : )

What are your thoughts on the Sniper Monkey? And what do you think of my suggestions? Good, bad or not enough changes?

Please, tell me your thoughts and ideas! :)

Hello everyone!

Previous week the discussion was about the Engineer Monkey. This time around, we have our fourth tower to discuss: The Monkey Ace!

Here's my overall view of the tower:

Top path - Fighter Plane and moreso Operation: Dart Storm are quite strong and relatively cheap full-map anti-MOAB upgrades. With good micro and some external support, it can also function as a decent generalist. Sky Shredder is an allround powerhouse that can hold its own into very high rounds, and can also damage all bloontypes. Crosspath wise, both paths are viable (although bottom path is generally more preferred): Middle path grants it the pineapple attack (which is near useless on its own), which now also spawns underneath MOABs after hitting with its MOAB-missiles (also quite useless, fun as it is), but also grants a slight boost to missile pierce, and the ability to hit camo bloons with extra damage. Bottom path adds an additional targeting option and more dart pierce, which is generally the preferred option due to its improved cleanup power. However, compared to the other paths, I'd argue that the top path has more flexibility with its crosspathing choices than the other two paths do.

Mid path - The Bomber plane is a cheap and quite strong upgrade, but its awkward attack style is very hard to utilize consistently, often requiring very heavy microing to get any mileage out of. Ground Zero (and especially Tsar Bomba) adds a super powerful map-wide nuke ability, capable of demolishing huge amounts of bloons at once. However, outside of the ability useage, despite having more powerful bombs to drop, its use is quite limitted (unless you do some SERIOUS micro-ing), again due to its regular bombs' awkward attack style. Crosspath-wise, the best choice is generally top path, but just the first upgrade, as its darts don't get stronger at higher tiers, which makes having more darts generally not all that useful (other than maybe aiding with popping black bloons, if not using an MIB or similar). In fact, due to the darts only dealing 1 damage each, getting more darts can currently be actively detrimental, due to them being able to create more of weaker type bloons, whereas its bombs are better at layer-skipping (which avoids said issue). Bottom path can very situationally be more useful with its additional flight option, and the pierce bonus is also very situational due to its already innately quite high pierce values on the bombs.

Bottom path - Neva-miss Targeting makes the Ace significantly more reliable with its dart damage output, granting it homing darts. However, for its price, its damage is on the lower end, often requiring outside support (most often Berserker Brew) to be truly worthwhile. Spectre adds more damage and a rapidfire stream of darts and bombs, which greatly enhances its power and reliability (but practically removes the synergy with Berserker Brew, sadly). The Flying Fortress triples the amount of rapidfire darts and bombs along with a huge damage and attack speed increase and can damage all types of bloons. While expensive, it also is one of the most powerful non-Paragon towers in the game. Crosspath-wise, Neva-miss has a massive preference towards top crosspath, with mid crosspath being quite insufficient and highly situational (basically only useful for hitting camos in restricted game modes and challenges). For Spectre and Flying Fortress, top crosspath is still definitely preferred, but they have a good chunk less benefit from it compared to Neva-miss, indirectly making mid crosspath a bit more of a viable choice - but it is still the more niche choice of course.

Paragon: The Ace Paragon somewhat lacks a true "5-5-5" feel, imo. Its homing missiles and radial missiles somewhat represents top and bottom path, but they focus more on power over speed (which is fine, as performance issues was a concern, if I remember correctly). However, it now has a forward-facing twin dart stream which only fires when it is facing bloons, more akin to the mini-planes of top path Buccaneer (rather than being active at all times a la Flying Fortress) and drops no regular bombs. Its ability is also no longer a map-wide nuke, but instead a "carpet bomb" ability, which feels more like the middle path's regular bomb attack turned into an ability instead. It is an incredibly powerful and well-performing Paragon, and even arguably completely fine as is, but personally, I feel it is slightly missing that "5-5-5" spirit.

Overall, the Monkey Ace is a powerful and versatile tower, but is somewhat restricted in its crosspath choices.

Suggestions:

• 310 Fighter Plane - Pineapples dropped from MOAB missiles have their time-until-explosion duration reduced from 2 seconds > 0,5 seconds. Carries over to Operation: Dart Storm and Sky Shredder as well.
• 310 Fighter Plane - Pineapples bonus damage versus MOAB-class bloons increased from +0 > +2
• 410 Operation: Dart Storm - Pineapples bonus damage versus MOAB-class bloons increased from +0 > +3
• 510 Sky Shredder - Pineapples bonus damage versus MOAB-class bloons increased from +0 > +10
• x3x Bomber Plane - Bomb run attack now drops bombs at all times, even when not flying over the bloon track. Applies to Ground Zero and Tsar Bomba too.
• x3x Bomber Plane - Bomb run attack changed from dropping 4 bombs every 1,6 seconds > drops 1 bomb every 0,4 seconds. Applies to Ground Zero and Tsar Bomba too.
• 130 Bomber Plane - Due to the above change, the regular bomb attack cooldown changes from dropping 1 bomb every 0,4 seconds > 0,3 seconds.
• x4x Ground Zero - Regular bomb attack pierce reduced from 40 > 20
• 042 Ground Zero - Regular bomb attack pierce reduced from 52 > 32
• x4x Ground Zero - Dart attack damage increased from 1 > 3
• x5x Tsar Bomba - Regular bomb attack pierce reduced from 40 > 20
• 052 Tsar Bomba - Regular bomb attack pierce reduced from 52 > 32
• x5x Tsar Bomba - Dart attack damage increased from 1 > 5
• xx2 Centered Path - No longer adds the targeting option "Centered Path". This upgrade instead allows all the different innate flight patterns (i.e. Circle, Figure Infinite and Figure Eight) to be re-centerable wherever you want!
• 013 Neva-miss Targeting - Pineapples damage increased from 1 > 3
• 013 Neva-miss Targeting - Pineapples are now launched like homing missiles towards the firstmost bloon (instead of being dropped straight down like bombs), and are only launched when there are bloons on the screen (instead of being dropped at all times / when the Ace flies over the bloon track). This change to the Pineapple attack is also applied for Spectre and Flying Fortress.
  • Note 1: The Pineapple timer ticks down even while the Pineapples are in flight, so positioning of the Ace's flight path is still important to not have them explode mid-flight.
  • Note 2: Once a homing pineapple contacts a bloon, the pineapple stops flying around (i.e. it turns into a stationary bomb).
  • Note 3: Even with the Monkey Knowledge "Targeted Pineapples", the Ace will still launch Pineapples even if it is not flying over the bloon track - as long as there are bloons visible on the screen.
• xx4 Spectre - Forward attack dart and bomb projectile count per attack instance increased from 1 > 3
• xx4 Spectre - Forward attack dart and bomb attack cooldown increased from every 0.06 seconds > 0.18 seconds
• 014 Spectre - Pineapple projectile count increased from 1 > 3
• 014 Spectre - Pineapple damage increased from 1 > 10
• 015 Flying Fortress - Pineapple attack rate increased from once every 1,6 seconds > 0,8 seconds
• 015 Flying Fortress - Pineapple damage increased from 1 > 30
• The following Paragon suggestions are all just to get more of a "5-5-5" feel, but are absolutely not necessary in regards to power rebalancing. I will refrain from using a lot of numbers here, and are suggesting more general ideas for it instead:
  • Paragon - The forward dart attack now always attacks the firstmost bloon, regardless of the plane's orientation (making it more similar to Spectre/Flying Fortress).
  • Paragon - Now also drops bombs beneath it constantly. Some of its current damage output could be transferred from its radial darts onto these bombs instead (making it more similar to middle path's attack style).
  • Paragon - The Carpet Bomb active ability attack has its damage heavily reduced, but now matches the cooldown timer of the Tsar Bomba and now also has a secondary damage component which deals some damage across the entire map (to make it more similar to the Ground Zero/Tsar Bomba's ability). Alternatively, the map-wide nuke could be a new seperate ability (which I think would still need to come at the cost of some of the Carpet Bomb ability's damage).
    • Just for numerical comparison/example:
    • Current Tsar Bomba ability = 3000 damage on the entire map. 35 second cooldown.
    • Current Carpet Bomb ability = 30000 damage across a line. 60 second cooldown.
    • The Carpet Bomb ability revamped = Maybe just deals ~12000 damage across a line, but also deals ~4000 damage on the entire map. Cooldown reduced to 35 seconds. Nerfed in power overall, but much easier to use.

Sidenote: I first had a much bigger suggestion write-up, where I proposed for the Exploding Pineapple to be more expensive but also having it ALWAYS be launched like a homing missile (instead of just making that a thing for the bottom path). However, after a lot of thinking, I came to the conclusion that it was better to keep the changes a bit more minimalistic and instead just gave this function to the bottom path, since it is the "homing attack" path after all.

With these suggestions, here's how I see things changing:

Top path

With Exploding Pineapples having a little bit of bonus damage versus MOAB class bloons (and much quicker detonations), it'd now actually be useful (rather than just a fun and silly bonus), meaning that going mid crosspath now ought to be a whole bunch more competitive with the bottom crosspath. That said, Centered Path's now having a far more flexible flight pattern bonus still keep the bottom path as a very enticing crosspath (along with the bonus dart pierce, of course).

Mid path

For Bomber Plane and its higher tiers, with regular bombs now dropping far more consistently, it becomes far more reliable and less micro-heavy to utilize at a reasonable fashion. With a nerf to its regular bombs' pierce and with the more flexible flight benefits from Centered Path, going for the bottom crosspath should now be far more enticing to pick up as well. Conversely, for especially Ground Zero and Tsar Bomba, with their darts hitting a bunch harder, going top crosspath and no longer skipping to pick up the Lots More Darts is also a more attractive option than ever.

Bottom path

Centered Path being more flexible with its flight options would not only make it a much more attractive crosspath choice, it would also make it far more viable as a starting upgrade (especially if you can't use Wingmonkey and especially on maps with limitted placement surfaces)! Spectre having 3x the amount of projectiles with its forward attack, but launched at a third of the attack rate, at a glance seems like a zero-sum change, but what it does is allow the Berserker Brew synergy to stay useable a slight bit longer, keeping up its synergy a tad longer! With Exploding Pineapple now becoming a homing attack for Neva-miss (and higher tiers), it not only ought to make it a more fun upgrade to pick up, but it would be far more useful and reliable too. While it would seem like the various bonus effects Exploding Pineapple gets via Spectre and Flying Fortress are quite powerful, the top crosspath still has a mucher higher DPS-output - but the gap would now simply be a little bit smaller.

Very rough single target DPS comparisons with my suggestions:

• 203 grants Neva-miss +100% DPS boost over base Neva-miss
• 013 grants Neva-miss +39% DPS boost over base Neva-miss (IF you hit with the Pineapple explosions).
  • If the Neva-Miss is boosted by a top path Alchemist, the 203 Neva-Miss is still significantly ahead in DPS.
• 204 grants Spectre +37% DPS boost over base Spectre
• 014 grants Spectre +9,5% DPS boost over base Spectre (IF you hit with the Pineapple explosions)
• 205 grants Flying Fortress +34% DPS boost over base Flying Fortress
• 015 grants Flying Fortress +5,5% (versus MOABs) or +8,6% (versus Ceramics) DPS boost over base Flying Fortress (IF you hit with the Pineapples explosions)

As you can see, even with these buffs to the Pineapple attack, going top crosspath is still significantly stronger in general - and the mid crosspath's DPS boosts only count if the Pineapples' explosions hit anything in the first place (so it's not all that useful for faster bloons). The only time mid crosspath still truly excels is versus Camo bloons.

What are your thoughts on the Monkey Ace? And what do you think of my suggestions? Good, bad or not enough changes?

Please, tell me your thoughts and ideas! :)