So, it has been a little while since the release of Gru vs. Megamind, an episode that was easily one of Death Battle's most anticipated but I think it's safe to say the release has not been met with the warmest reception especially when compared to the hype it got when it was one of the matchups put forward in the Tournament of Champions and there was a decent amount of disappointment when it lost in that competition. Then when it was one of the matchups one could guarantee via stretch goals on the Kickstarter? People were absolutely ecstatic until it ultimately didn't win...

...only to have that excitement promptly return when Chad announced on stream that as a thanks for saving the series? They'd do this episode anyway and then we waited an additional two years. Basically, there was SO much hype generated for this episode that when it was finally announced after Bakugo vs. Reze? It went into overdrive with the discussion, memes and speculating. Though it's here where to be honest? I started to notice the problem forming and in hindsight? I should've seen the hype backlash coming. Now before we begin with this proper? I just want to note real quickly how I approach hype just so you get an idea of what I'm talking about.

I'm not immune to hype, I often let myself get excited for things since I see nothing wrong with just being enthusiastic about media and sometimes depending on my excitement? Something can disappoint me. However, one thing I try to do is keep my expectations in check and when the media is very close to coming out? I personally try my best to reset my expectations and go in with only the hope that this will be good.

Now this doesn't mean I'm just immune to disappointment but rather? I personally am allowing the media to take me on the journey that the creators intended without it being hampered by needing to live up to or be the version I've already concocted in my head. I've done this for so many movies, shows and games and yes, this is what I do for Death Battle which included Gru vs. Megamind.

And this is the right time to generally also cover that this is not me trying to say there aren't legitimate issues with the Death Battle. No media will ever be 100% perfect and also there are points that people have laid out that I can concede to. I agree more fighting could absolutely have been incorporated, Minion (Will never call him Ol' Chum.) was unfortunately underutilized, I think there are cases where the resource management went to the wrong things when they should've been transferred into others and the conclusion could've definitely used some rewording and retooling.

That being said? I still really like this episode. I feel it overall captures the vibe of the two properties very well. Considering the limitations they had going into production, they did a great job of working around them and in general? I had fun. There's not that lingering feeling of disappointment like Kratos vs. Asura where I like the episode less as I rewatch it and there isn't that crippling sense of disappointment I feel like when episodes with some of my favorite characters flub the landing, I just overall enjoyed the episode for what it was.

To put it simply, going into this episode, I was more than aware of the massive uphill battle they faced doing this one such as the major lack of necessary assets for what this would require if people really wanted them to make the fight to the scale they wanted it to be. I know some are possibly tired of hearing about this problem and have provided potential alternatives but I'd like to take this time to explain that those alternatives don't immediately fix everything.

If they went for hand-drawn? The only guys you're going to have a simple time drawing are the Minions... and then you remember how many Minions there are and with how long this fight would have to go on for, how much time you're gonna have to put into every frame. It could definitely still be done and with enough time could've been cool but this is a case where we have gone from few assets to no assets and on top of that, time would need to be spent working the designs so that they are animation-friendly because we're talking characters made for 3D having to be adapted to a 2D space.

So then the solution maybe becomes sprites. That sounds good... until you realize the only official media with sprites would be content like the old mobile games developed in Java for phones with proper number pads and handhelds which were NEVER meant to be seen at higher resolutions. Now one could fix this with some custom spriting but that would likely require things on the level of the puppet rigging from some earlier seasons which bear in mind had their own limitations given that it usually meant making a few detailed sprites from different angles that are then posed in whatever manner the episode required which I almost guarantee would've still seen complaints by people because it would be nowhere near as smooth as they'd want it.

I've also heard of the other option being that this episode could've been handled by MORØ. Now I mean this with nothing but the utmost respect to MORØ since he is IMMENSELY talented and has crafted some of my favorite Death Battles but I really don't think his style fits for this kind of matchup UNLESS the idea was to make it go insanely hard for no reason. MORØ to me works on the episodes he's placed on because he makes an effort to focus on dynamic posing, timing and style. The anime episodes in particular he especially rocks at because his animation allows for a nice clean aesthetic and the posing and focus on strong senses of impact really makes it feel like you're watching a dramatic anime fight.

However, MORØ is not perfect and is also not a "one size fits all" solution, especially if you want his fights to still consistently look good. In particular, one aspect of MORØ's animations for the show I don't see many people talk about nor does anyone seem willing to discuss is how there are more than a few points where they can feel rather stiff. For example, watch the early portions of Shigaraki vs. Mahito or dare I say, a good chunk of Spider-Man vs. Deku where there are more blatant uses of motion tweening and what almost feels in line with the puppet rigged sprites.

Now it's not that bad truly, especially as you're watching the fight since you're not really paying attention to all these little details in an average viewing setting but they are still there. They're even present in Bowser vs. Eggman in a few small sections and simply put, the very fast-paced and zany motion of both Despicable Me and Megamind would not be in his wheelhouse to me. Could he do it? Absolutely. Would the fight be bad? I don't think so. But I think honestly whenever this gets thrown out, it feels like it's cut from the same cloth as the many complaints about how this fight wasn't crazy enough since it seems like the desire was for Bowser vs. Eggman but reskinned into Gru vs. Megamind and so hey, why not get the guy who did Bowser vs. Eggman like that would magically fix everything?

Then there's the point that they should've just delayed the episode to polish it up more. Now, the idea itself is sound. Obviously with more time to polish up work, it could result in a better product being produced. However, more attention needs to be placed on how it could because the reality is, delays aren't just this immediate fix and generally they're something that people aim to avoid because usually, that means having to spend more time and money working on this one product.

It's not just a matter of saying something needs more time and then people out of little more than a desire to see the project fully realized are working on it, it's often a decision that has to be made with a lot of consideration for not just the project but everything else surrounding it. Hell, considering the limited pool of animators, this would mean there's especially the possibility of them having to put off work on another episode or another project that could need it more to work on this one.

Not to mention, schedules exist for a reason. One of the first lessons in school that's usually taught is the importance of setting a goal or routine for yourself to follow because while no schedule means no duress to endure and especially no deadline? It also means it can be pretty easy for people to procrastinate and put things off whereas having a schedule means you not only have a sense of structure but also a motivator to get something done which is especially important for a job.

And that's something that I feel is especially missed. While for us Death Battle is ultimately entertainment that we are able to hop onto YouTube to watch ultimately for free? For the people working on it, this is entertainment that they are making because it's their job. This is how Ben, Chad, Liam and so many others pay their bills. Some are lucky enough to have other sources of income they can turn to when needed but for many of the people working on this show? This is how they get to live. Hell, Death Battle is a show that has for the most part always had a schedule and it has had some BRUTAL ones before.

Season 1 would often have only 1 or 2-week-long waits which meant we got episodes much faster... it was also season 1 where Ben was doing everything on his own and basically destroying his social life and health to make this show. Season 2 ran off a much looser schedule but that meant episode releases were absolutely all over the place, especially considering this was at the time they weren't really thinking about the seasonal structure. Episodes could release MONTHS apart from one another or just a week. It was common to hear one anticipated episode was being delayed but hey, in that time you were going to get another episode that's close to being finished. In hindsight, it was kind of a big mess.

The thing is, as nice as it would be if Death Battle could run off a "When it's done." mentality and just delay whenever an episode maybe could use it? It's just not viable unless they have a company backing them and even so, one that's able to grant them the resources necessary for this complete with them seeing enough success to justify the model and offset the costs.

For an example of how this backfired, the most expensive failure Death Battle ever produced at least according to Chad was Power Rangers vs. Voltron. That episode kept being pushed back. It was initially going to be done in sprites and they were waiting on someone to provide and they didn't. Torrian then noted there was someone he knew who was a modeller and they commissioned them for assets which were totally unusable due to how inaccurate and terrible they were and then finally they got usable models with the Power Rangers coming from a mobile game and the Voltron side were all modified off existing models of characters. The Megazord and Voltron themselves I believe were custom made. Then there was the process of hiring all those voice actors and the end result was an episode that for as much effort and cash as they poured into it? It ultimately did not do that well.

Now of course, this also doesn't mean episodes could not have benefit from delays. The one you're likely immediately thinking of I'm going to mention here. Kratos vs. Asura absolutely could've benefit from a proper delay to sort out its issues. That being said? It really would depend on how big the delay would need to be and what resources would need to go into it. I've said before that the problems that episode suffers from require a page one rewrite, as in they take all that they've done before and scrap it completely to make something else. That's not exactly the kind of thought people working on an indie show that they're well aware is their big source of income should be having.

Bear in mind, apparently they got far enough with the original version that they recorded even lines like "DEATH TO ALL GODS!" and considering most of the lines just so happen to come from that original storyboard and script but with changed context? That basically means the episode was likely very close to completion with already so much money being spent on it. That context alone coupled with how expensive they said Death Battle can be makes the hesitation to make changes and the need to implement systems after the release of it I'd say makes the clash more understandable. Bear in mind, we get pissed at big corporations for not delaying things because frankly, they have MORE than enough money they can afford losing to polish a product to a mirror shine, especially if that thing releases and then makes a lot of money in return. Smaller indies genuinely have a lot more to lose and a lot more to consider.

Really, looking at everything? This episode was set to never be given the chance to be judged for what it was since people REALLY let their hype do all the driving. It was very common to see people basically propping up how this basically could be Bowser vs. Eggman but with Gru and Megamind. They they could use the full extent of their arsenal, we could see the Metro Man suit or maybe Mega-Megamind and so, SO much more and the fight could be so epic, big, explosive and epic and meanwhile? I was sitting here feeling a major sense of deja-vu since I could swear there was another fight that also went through this kind of hyping up before it also inspired an initial reaction of just disappointment.

It didn't take that long for me to think of it since of course, it only released last year. In a weird way, Wile E. vs. Tom and Gru vs. Megamind are kindred spirits. They're both highly anticipated episodes animated by Luis that in the wait for them had the most extreme hype built up around them. They featured characters with arsenals so massive that legitimately there was no way in hell they'd ever be able to show them all and were lacking in amazing assets to use and they both made a choice to try capturing the vibe of their source material rather than the insane dramatic fight people were expecting that would have so much cosmic nonsense or just plain chaos all around.

What's especially funny about this is that there was a period where this was basically Death Battle's M.O.. Season 2 through I want to say at least season 3 featured plenty of fights between characters where I'd say scale and crazy combat over faithfulness to the source series were prioritized. People joked about Torrian's tendency to cram in crazy martial arts for characters that really have never moved like that. Going back even earlier, Mr. Lange for season 1 and early season 2 battles would have characters fight at absolutely bonkers speeds even when the characters were say, Peach and Zelda. This isn't saying these are bad mind you, plenty of fights are still incredibly fun and in particular many have this charm because they're so over-the-top and ridiculous.

But as time has gone on? Death Battle has really tried to experiment with more variety in the fights and in particular, they've tried for a vibe that feels much more at home with the series featured while taking necessary liberties considering what show this is rather than going for a "one size fits all" approach. This also includes allowing for fights to take on more unique structures so that they don't run the risk of feeling stale and for those fights to still ultimately feel special, even as time has gone on and the crazy levels of power become less and less awe-inspiring.

It's really a shame just how much Scooby vs. Courage and Bowser vs. Eggman kind of spoiled people on what to expect from the show in certain circumstances and it's led to the point being missed on why these episodes exist in the forms they do in the first place. The former did what it did not just because it's hilarious to see these two cartoon dogs escalate to these levels but when analyzing these two through this lens that was NEVER intended by the original creators? Both in some respects actually escalate into that absurdity in some canon material so it makes sense to represent that in the fight.

Bowser vs. Eggman's approach works for the overall fight script constructed and for these types of characters. Bowser vs. Eggman was a big fight that was long in the pipeline and was being worked on when Rooster Teeth was shuddered. This coupled with all that extra money, the time it was coming out and all the passion poured into it meant that it had nothing to gain other than immense polish. Couple that with how well both characters work in terms of personalities and the scales both series have escalated to and the plethora of assets to utilize and there's plenty of reason for why the fight turned out absolutely bonkers.

Despicable Me and Megamind are simply not like that. They may have their fair share of tense and fun action sequences but they're also known I'd say for their frantic and snappy approaches to comedy. The fights in particular are never really about the insane fisticuffs they get up to but rather the use of gadgets and all the banter that occurs during the scuffle. Would it have been fun to get that wild brawl where they really do use everything and the kitchen sink? Absolutely but again, that's just not really reflective of these characters, their franchises and frankly feels like it was thought up with no consideration for reality.

And since we're in particular talking about hype, no, it doesn't matter how long you've been waiting for something. Gru vs. Megamind wasn't being worked on the moment they said they'd do it, they just said they'd do it. How many years you spend waiting for something to release doesn't really mean anything aside from how long you waited for it. Death Battle didn't promise you that you'd get the episode of your dreams, they just promised it would happen and your disappointment is not their fault. They just made an episode that disappointed you and that's okay. Though you ask me, I think you should take a moment to ask if you were disappointed in the episode because you watched it for what it was or if it didn't live up to the absolutely insane expectations you had for it.

To me, all media needs to be judged for what it is and what goals IT'S aiming to accomplish, not how it lives up to a promise it NEVER made in the first place. If you want to explore that alternate possibility? Then by all means look up a fanfiction or write one yourself, I'm sure there is a load of potential in your ideas. But the creators shouldn't be beholden to that way, especially when in cases like this it's very likely that attempting something like that with the limitations that existed had the potential to result in a much bigger disaster. Now if you were just disappointed by the episode for what it does? I think that's entirely fair, just like it's fair to no matter what dislike the episode, my point is not to say you are wrong for not liking an episode or frame it as though everyone who had a problem just had such unrealistic expectations.

My point is to highlight how this episode was just always going to be fighting this uphill battle and that maybe we should use this time to consider reconfiguring our expectations and work towards giving episodes the fairest shake where we judge them for what they are.

First, mandatory disclaimer with big text:

The following you are about to read is strictly MY opinion and in no way, shape or form is meant to put you down for your thoughts. While I will speak on the response to the episode, this is based on my subjective perspective and is NOT an attack on you or anyone else.

Now then, for my short thoughts?

I liked this episode. In fact, I REALLY liked it. As a fan of the first two Despicable Me films and Megamind, I felt properly serviced with this episode. The analyses were just the right amount of story coverage and humor, the fight itself was well-animated with a snappy pace that reminded me of those movies complete with a hilarious ending and the conclusion was something I found myself nodding along to.

Now, for the longer review, I'd first like to start with some prefacing so that one can understand where I'm coming from with this.

In terms of experience with these two series, I have only seen the first two Despicable Me films and the first Megamind. In terms of side-material, I've dabbled in the Minion Run mobile game, I experienced the Minions ride at Universal Studios and for Megamind I watched the Button of Doom short and frankly? That's always felt like enough for me. I genuinely feel like these are the best aspects of the franchise with there being really no need to go further and what I've experienced has been a great mix of solid comedy with snappy pacing, an impressive amount of heart and in Megamind's case, it has a lot going on beneath the surface in terms of solid commentary about "nice guy syndrome" and this matchup was something that IMMEDIATELY sprang up in my mind when both movies came out in theaters all those years back.

I'd say Gru vs. Megamind is one of those matchups where even people who are not really into powerscaling or battleboarding got into the concept or at least, they got into the idea of these two franchises colliding and of course, this meant as Death Battle got bigger and better, this fight came to mind. I think most here know the origins of this matchup already. It was on the Tournament of Champions and got quite far, then it was beaten out by another and then it was made a stretch goal for the Kickstarter that saved the show. That stretch goal being something it never reached but Chad said that because people were so generous to save the show so fast and give it such a great safety net? They'd do this episode anyway as a gift to the fans.

So needless to say, when this ended up announced as the next episode after Bakugo vs. Reze? This had a lot riding on it and thanks to various circumstances, that pressure only mounted. This was now gonna wind up the first big 3D battle after DevilArtemis' departure from the show. Now it wasn't being animated by someone who was unfamiliar with 3D. This in particular is the work of Luis who had already worked on episodes like Ash vs. Yugi and overall that turned out very well.

There was still a lot of trepidation however. After all, considering this episode's nature, everyone was coming into this one with their own ideas of how the fight should progress, how the analyses should be handled and then some which fans do with just about anything and with that comes obviously a whole plethora of things. Maybe some hopes would be fulfilled, some wouldn't be and then there are people who'd have their thoughts. It especially was gonna be judged since this episode was also being written by the same dude who wrote Vader vs. Obito and Spider-Man vs. Deku, two episodes that generally people enjoy but have over time dropped down in terms of perception with the latter especially seeing a good deal of reevaluation. Me personally, despite my criticisms for both episodes, I for one thought this was perfect and after watching it? I feel he really proved himself here. With this said and done, let's get into the review.

The analyses are to me pitch perfect for these characters, the audience this is primarily catering to and highlights Djangor's strengths while also showing clear improvement from the previous two outings. To get my thoughts out there, I've always felt he's usually a man who's good at presenting a summary of a character's story but it's his ability to work in the versus points he has struggled with and when it comes to characters with long histories? He kind of falters in terms of actually covering more than just the basics.

Here? There's still a struggle with versus stuff but one can see he's definitely getting better. It's the benefit of a writer continuing to get chances, they can keep evolving their craft and one aspect they've generally been good at is story coverage which this does very well and it takes a genuinely solid approach. Gru and Megamind's analyses for one primarily focus on the first movie but with details sprinkled in from the others to sort of fill in gaps and then sort of cover what they did after. I think that's a smart choice given that for quite a few people coming into this, it's primarily those who have watched the first movie only or at least choose to regard only the first movie. However, no malice is directed toward that material.

Concern was expressed that they'd get bogged down by bringing up the Facebook Minion memes though people were making jokes about how they'd disparage and disregard Megamind vs. The Doom Syndicate and Rules but there's not a hint of that here and I really appreciate that. Now personally, I do like when Death Battle is allowed to show some personality which to me would involve them being allowed to take some shots every now and again but to be real with you all? I think my efforts to envision a version of this episode where those potshots were taken made me glad they didn't bother, especially with how it would hamper the writing and flow of these analyses which prioritize the characters above just throwing out numbers.

Hell, personality is worked in with the genuinely fun running gag of Boomstick annoying Wiz by using Megamind's pronunciation of Metro City and a fun "Boomstick as a dad" gag where he mentions being proud of his own daughter which is especially cool to me since I'm on the cusp of reaching the conclusion of "Boomstick's dad" deal in my rewatch. Really the vibe this gives off is that they are just having a ton of fun with this and are embodying the spirit of the source material in all the right ways. If I had to criticize some aspects? I do wish we maybe we got a little more coverage of later material, a nod to the Minion memes like maybe one is slipped in on a screen or Boomstick brings up not really knowing the little guys beyond those images. I also think the versus stuff is worked in a little haphazardly but nothing ruins the analyses. Now, for the fight...

Oh my, oh me, this fight. First off, let me begin by bringing up that I have no problems with the choice to go 3D. Could this fight have worked in sprites? Of course it could've. Could the fight have worked if it was hand-drawn? Also, yes. Could it have looked cool with MORØ at the helm? Absolutely. But the thing is, every fight has the potential to look good in any style as long as the script, direction and more all works in tandem to bring out the best qualities. A hand-drawn Jason vs. Michael could've gone hard and so on.

That is, however, not what they chose to go for and really, this criticism feels like it's in part based on an aspect of how we analyze Death Battle that I think we ALL need a reality check on. In particular, I remember one comment noting that 3D was a bad choice because of the models that were available publicly not matching the movies in terms of quality. There was also the dunking on Gru's model from the preview because of what was seen in that single screencap which led to a HANDFUL of people going on about how it sucks DevilArtemis is gone and then those dooming that the episode was gonna suck and this is when I just need to spell this out.

Jank in 3D Death Battles is NOTHING new. It has been a thing SINCE season 1.

For example, Torrian I often see propped up on a sort of pedestal for his amazing choreography with only a handful of episodes being singled out for looking particularly bad, even in season 2. The thing is? Going back through even his best work from that era, they were FILLED with jank from poor lighting to inconsistent sound mixing, flickering textures, awkward mocap and more. It's just what makes those episodes great is primarily the solid choreography and motion which allows you to ignore the weaker elements and I'd even argue the nostalgia of the people who remember growing up with those early seasons. Even as Torrian got better with his animation, there'd still be points of jank slipping through. Dante vs. Clive has some truly mindbogglingly cool choreography but it still has moments of jank mocap, stiff looking animation and in the case of the opening exchange, outright bad facial animation and to address the big perfect being in the room?

Even DevilArtemis, good as he is, was not safe from jank at even his best moments. The fact of the matter is with the schedule Death Battle often operates under and given it is still by-and-large mainly an internet series that is at the mercy of what resources are available? Not every Death Battle can look like Ruby vs. Maka nor is it gonna look like a professionally made Hollywood movie. Hell, EVEN some of the most well-regarded battles still have jank to them.

For instance, Goku vs. Superman 2023 uses the FighterZ models for Goku which pull off some awkward expressions from time to time given that they're being viewed at many angles that the original game never intended them to be seen from without camera tricks and in the case of base Goku, his expressions look off because of how it had to be animated. The fight for Cole vs. Alex features models for both that don't look the most appealing because neither character had modern models to work with and they were being animated in a software where crafting solid hand-to-hand combat scenes is an incredibly meticulous process, Obi-Wan vs. Kakashi has an Obi-Wan model that looks very off with the lighting used and how it's animated, Ash vs. Yugi had to result to using a couple PS2-era models and simple 2D art at points because not every single one of Yugi's monsters had been properly brought to next-gen systems and I can go on and on. Jank and limitations have ALWAYS been a thing with Death Battle, 3D fights especially have moments where they look off.

The reality is that animation is a difficult and mostly time-consuming process, especially 3D animation. For movies and TV shows, the process with this is often done by whole TEAMS of people with several working on single shots, sharing work and, if they're lucky? Timeframes to where they can make this look the best it can be. To use an indie example, The Amazing Digital Circus looks so mindbogglingly good for what it is but notably, the release windows between episodes are often MONTHS apart, same goes for Glitch Productions' other shows. Death Battle at most has been going off single month timegaps and they're having to commission the animators they have working for them unlike the Rooster Teeth days where they'd be able to pull from that company's animation team... when they were available. Ben has even made it quite clear that really there were no separate teams for episodes and that who ended up working on the episodes were just who was available.

I've also seen the point where it has been asked why they couldn't delay the episode so that it'd look better and guys, schedules exist for a reason. Delays aren't just this immediate fix, obviously taking more time to polish things up would be better and in a great world, everything would have all the time it needs. However, time is also money and they'd be spending more on that project. Not only that but considering the limited pool of animators, this would mean there's the possibility of them having to put off work on another episode or another project that could need it more.

So if you'll forgive me? I personally feel complaints about the animation coming at it from the perspective of it just not looking as good as either of the combatant's source material is completely ridiculous and overly judgmental. Is it fair to say the models look off? Absolutely, especially if it does affect your enjoyment of the episode. But we should be approaching this from how the episode looks on its OWN merits, not these unobtainable highs that frankly seem insanely unfair. The same goes for the voice acting. To put it simply, all of these characters are going to sound off when played by other people because the performances put on by the cast are incredibly distinct, memorable and hard to replicate. Hell, Gru has only EVER been voiced by Steve Carell.

The thing is, casting based purely off how good of an impression an actor can do is a surefire way to usually get poorer performances or at least that's generally my experience. Voice actors have explained that when it comes to the art, it's not just about being able to do a silly voice, it's about being able to get into the head of that character and embody them in every way you can with just your voice. When doing an impression, it's fun but more often than not an impression is going to be based on a particular line delivery or moment and is just about trying to imitate what came before. A good example I can think of is Optimus Prime in media like the Netflix WFC trilogy and Cyberverse where he's played by Jake Foushee who was picked because of his young age and ability to nail a Prime impression as he showed through Vines he did back when that service was a thing.

The problem? His impression is based largely on Prime's speeches in the movies and thus is delivered very stoically, like most people would when they'd impersonate Optimus and it's applied to ALL of Prime's dialogue. The result is that Optimus sounds incredibly stiff and emotionless in Cyberverse and while it sounds better in the Netflix series, it's a mix of poor direction and just any moment where Prime's expected to emote beyond the range Foushee has to aim for that it falls apart.

Death Battle in particular is no stranger to this with some of its voices such as the one for Rock Lee where a mix of writing plus poor direction leads to this performance really not embodying the spirit of the character quite as well as it could have. It fulfilled the dream of the actor which is sweet but unfortunately, the actual performance wasn't up to snuff.

All this is to say that I personally didn't mind the performances in the episode proper. If anything, they did the job I'd hope voices for these characters would do and they embodied the spirit of both. Megamind is bombastic and theatrical but also oozing with sincerity and possessing some of that casual demeanor while Gru has the accent and he sounds determined and earnest but also fairly silly. The Minions for both sides work well for what they're asked to do.

To me, to judge an actor purely for how much their voice doesn't match another comes across as extremely unfair and it carries with it a lack of understanding for the actual craft of voice acting and just acting in general. It's genuinely stunning that many months after Blade vs. Buffy this is still skulking around as a take. The fact of the matter is, no matter what, none of these actors are gonna sound 100% like the original and judging them based on this narrow and frankly ridiculous metric needs to fucking STOP.

Criticize the performances if you feel they aren't great, even bring up line deliveries you feel could've been improved but do so because you're judging them for their own merits, not how they compare to professional Hollywood actors who have been paid by the assloads to be in these movies that have the benefit of being able to take as many retakes as needed thanks to very generous development timelines.

Moving onto the animation, one complaint that I IMMEDIATELY question is that apparently, people didn't really like how the vibe leaned toward more of the comedy and how neither character used the full extent of their arsenal. To address the latter? There are fair criticisms to make which I share. I agree that it's a real missed opportunity that they didn't do the Minion (No, I will not call him Ol' Chum.) fakeout and that he was mainly relegated to mission control feels off. There are also several gadgets that indeed would've been cool to see used such as the Metro Man suit. That being said, here's why that doesn't really bother me.

For one thing, this is nothing new for Death Battle. I've seen people say already this is season 1 levels of bad and to be blunt? If y'all have not watched season 1 somewhat recently? I don't feel you have an accurate idea. I'd easily characterize season 1 in particular as being when the show was at its most jank. Analyses were not analyses, they were rushed summaries with Wiz trying way too hard to sound cool while Boomstick would make a plethora of really juvenile jokes. It felt like they never wanted to dedicate more than even a minute to them and the fights themselves would suffer from not just poor animation and very crude visuals but multiple instances of what I like to call "showcaseography" which is a problem season 2 also suffered with in many instances.

To explain this, showcaseography is basically when the fight tries its best to include everything that the analyses covered to show the work they put in but rather than it feeling like a natural part of the choreography? It instead feels like they're just throwing it in for no other reason but showing it off just because they can. Now if used well? It doesn't end up as showcaseography but rather, it ends up cool to see an ability that's often not really used in this actually get some shine like when Black Adam used his Yellow Power Ring. However, what it often leads to is moments like say, Goku trying the psychic attack in Goku vs. Superman 1. This is not a strategy Goku ever really employs in any fight meaning this comes off as being fairly out-of-character at least to me, it stops the fight for a moment and ultimately doesn't lead to much of anything and it's never used again. For a clearer example of this, compare Eggman vs. Wily to Bowser vs. Eggman NOT in terms of animation quality but arsenal usage.

Eggman vs. Wily due to the mission statement of trying to show the higher-ups that they needed a budget increase and more people working on the show tries its best to cram as much of both characters' arsenals into the battle and that aspect is impressive, especially when considering what Ben had to work with (As a reminder, the man had to solo animate these and prepare the analysis slides in a week and often was doing so while balancing college and more. He also had to work on everything in the jankest programs imaginable. This man destroyed his social life and sleep for this show.)

However, a big problem is that the fight clearly did NOT have the resources or the time to make this the best it can be and as a result? While you saw more robots? You saw them at most in VERY brief flashes. Legitimately, aside from I'd say Metal Sonic and Beta wrecking shop, there aren't many moments of that fight that stand out. It just kind of winds up a bunch of noise. Bowser vs. Eggman by comparison felt like it paced itself out the best it could. It gave all the right elements time to shine, threw in neat bonuses and was also long enough to where things had room to breathe without feeling like a marathon.

Another example I'd like to give is Goku vs. Superman 1 compared to Goku vs. Superman 2023. The former may be one of the longest fights the show has ever produced but with the showcaseography approach? There's a lot of stop-and-go that hampers the pacing and leaves it to where the fight begins and ends strong but as time has gone on? Age has greatly affected it. So many abilities and transformations are here just because they have to be. Aside from the aforementioned psychic attack, there's also how with the exception of Super Saiyan 1 and 4? None of the transformations really feel like they're getting to truly shine so much as they're just being tossed in. The 2023 outing by comparison flows MUCH better as a fight, making necessary exclusions for the sake of the battle and also the length feels just perfect. In particular, they IMMEDIATELY cut back on so much by just having Goku start in Super Saiyan which feels so much more in line with what you'd expect out of the guy when he's facing against opponents as mighty as Superman.

A season 1-style Gru vs. Megamind would be a very different beast. One where there's no characterization, attention is given purely to the memes, the death is abrupt in the sense that there's no ending and also the animation would be significantly poorer quality. Also the usage of tools would be where they're just using them because they were brought up in the analysis but would not be worked in organically. Now moving on from the season 1 point, I do agree that with some reworking, they could've maybe stood to add a few more tools to Megamind's arsenal or had Gru use more. My point is not to say this just inherently would've been a bad thing. However, I do think this needs to be done within reason and with proper consideration for what will work with the fight as well as the flow and if you ask me? I think the battle itself has a really solid flow to it and just the right energy.

Despicable Me and Megamind may have their fair share of tense and fun action sequences but they're also known I'd say for their frantic and snappy approaches to comedy and I think overall that was the right route to go. To me, they use all they absolutely need to with a few neat bonuses thrown in where it really matters and to throw in some of my own personal opinions here? These characters border on DANTE levels of insane arsenals to where really, it's very unrealistic to expect they'd use all of them or even most of them and in the case of some pieces of tech? I really don't see how they could've worked it in. Legitimately, I don't know why Megamind would bust out the Metro Man suit from Button of Doom nor do I really think that's something that really would fit the vibe of this matchup.

And It's here where I'm also going to say even if it's not necessarily where everyone's coming from with this? It really feels like there is this tendency to look at episodes like this or Wile E. vs. Tom or whatever and rather than judge or want them for their own merits, it's instead based on a desire to see an earlier episode but reskinned with these characters. With Wile E. vs. Tom, it seemed like many were pushing for it expecting another Scooby vs. Courage with huge jaw-dropping spectacle and I think with this? It feels like the expectation was for this to be like Bowser vs. Eggman or Ash vs. Yugi and thus when it didn't end up like that? Suddenly anger is turned toward the episode. In particular, I could see it in how prior to the fight, posts were making mention of beam struggles and these other elements.

That is NOT Gru and Megamind. That has NEVER been Gru and Megamind. Big explosive Dragon Ball Z-esque clashes are NOT this "one size fits all" solution.

Scooby vs. Courage did what it did because not only did Scooby-Doo in some respects actually escalate into that absurdity in some canon material but that's because it was for the sake of humor. Bowser vs. Eggman's approach works for the overall fight script constructed and for these types of characters. Gru and Megamind do NOT operate like that and a fight that portrays them like that, while definitely fun in concept, is not exactly the only way this fight can and if you ask me, it's not even a way it SHOULD be portrayed. I can't help but think about when bellyaching occurred over Doom Slayer being given a speed feat based on a glitch or how the son of the atom, Godzilla wasn't moving fast enough like God-fucking-zilla was somehow expected to move like the mod that put him into Super Smash Brothers Brawl.

Which is it? Do we want characters to be portrayed faithfully to the source material or do we just want the fights to be over-the-top hype all the time even if it ultimately doesn't fit with the core of either character?

To address the valid criticisms? I agree that at the very least maybe they could've allocated their resources towards other parts of the fight. I definitely think you could cut the Minion cutaways or even do a reference to "PRESENTATION!" without the need of actually needing to put so many Brainbots together and replace them with something else and it's fair to criticize the fight if it didn't exactly work for you. I also agree that more time could definitely be spent on them actually fighting one another. I also think they really should've brought out the Forget-Me Stick and at the very least could've had Minion do more such as him coming in to fight Gru's Minions. Just because I like the episode doesn't mean I think it is flawless.

Now for my personal opinion? I legitimately appreciated the approach to making this feel like in some ways an official crossover, especially since both Gru and Megamind have the personalities to bounce off each other in those ways. If anything, I think this is the kind of confrontation I'd mostly picture between these two that fits with the spirit of their respective franchises and characters. I've already seen one criticism that noted it was incoherent but you ask me I was able to follow along okay. I didn't even mind the dialogue bits because again, it felt in line with the characters. In fact, if you ask me, this is another aspect that plays into Djangor's strengths as a writer and shows some of the improvements he has made since his previous two outings and most especially since Spider-Man vs. Deku.

One of my biggest problems with that episode in particular is that it really exemplified his struggles seemingly with Death Battle's whole concept in that he'll get so good in regards to keeping everyone in character and nailing the vibe but then when the death comes it kind of feels like he remembers it has to happen and they often have solid concepts but execution that stumbles. Spider-Man vs. Deku in particular features a great IDEA for the ending but the very limp punches mixed with Miles' understated grunt and even just how the emotional beat feels like in terms of structure how it comes out of left field make for a severe case of mood whiplash. Even though I think it was the right call overall, I can't help but feel every time I watch it my enjoyment lessening every time, especially when it hits that point.

Here? While I'll definitely need to rewatch it multiple times to fully form my thoughts? I think this works much better. I think they fight in particular just the right amount and it really brings to mind the climaxes of Megamind and Despicable Me proper. Plus, it's not like there's no fighting. They're still engaging with one another, there are interactions and clashes of character. Hell, I even like the Minion cutaways because they felt like something I'd expect to see in Megamind's source material. But most specifically, I especially love what seems to be the most controversial bit, the death.

Now I do not think it is a problem if people do not end up enjoying this death. Comedy is one of the most subjective things for humans, what will make one person double over and bust a gut laughing will have a lesser effect on another or leave another person completely stonefaced. I even think there's a fair argument to be made here in regards to this being the right call. If you just don't like the death? No shame, it's completely fair.

In terms of my stance? I think this death is comically abrupt in the best ways. I love that it's basically a nod to the fakeout death at the beginning of Megamind but played completely straight, The way the music just cuts out and the death just lingers on the scene long enough for the shock to set in and especially the reaction from the Minions and Gru himself are incredibly fitting. To me, it's basically a moment that reminds you that in spite of all the fun you're hopefully having? This is still Death Battle and honestly with the short amount of time I've had to consider alternatives? I don't think many hold up.

They could've done the Minion fakeout but that's just repeating a beat from the movie and if it ended in Gru's victory still? It would just continue with the trend of Death Battles ending in double fakeouts which at this point are getting old alongside emotional endings. Having variety injected into the show is always welcome. If they went for something more brutal? It disrupts from the vibe of the fight itself and can result in tonal whiplash. Have it be too small of an impact and then the death would feel underwhelming. This feels like the right amount to settle for at least to me. It's the big reminder of what show you're actually watching but it doesn't go so far in one direction that it completely cripples the whole animation.

As for the conclusion? I'm not touching the scaling arguments because I personally don't care, that can be debated by everyone else. To me, unless an argument actively makes me go "What?", this won't matter to me, especially since I personally am fine with the crux of their argument which is ultimately that Gru is more practical while Megamind often doesn't really use his best tools until later, putting a lot of stock into his theatricality and presentation. This is apparently primarily something that's in the sequel material but there are also at least hints of this in the movie. Plus I don't think that's really a fault of Death Battle so much as it's a fault of the sequels just being not that good and going with this. Now, people have already said this is basically a season 1 level conclusion and once again, I have to contest that.

Season 1 episodes mostly featured conclusions based on, as the crew noted, jokes and very baffling and inaccurate pseudo-science that is even ridiculous for a show that commonly USES pseudo-science. Hell, a good chunk of them are just play-by-plays of what happened during the animation with random anecdotes thrown in. Anyone remember the point made in Rogue vs. Wonder Woman that Diana lost because she was inherently too exposed and her up-close combat style meant Rogue had more than enough opportunities to power herself up? How about the soccer ball point in Zelda vs. Peach which even Ben noted after they made the episode had left him confounded they actually went with that? Hell, some of these types of conclusions continued into season 2 so let me ask if anyone remembers when they noted in Gaara vs. Toph that Gaara's sand was just sand and that Toph could sense it even when it's moving in the air and left THAT as the reason why she'd win.

This at the very least is an actual conclusion that does make the attempt to address possible arguments. Comparing it to early seasons where we really didn't have conclusions and occasionally the two hosts actively antagonizing the audience feels very unfair and inaccurate. Also to me, this thing would have to say something like "Megamind's tech is just tech. Gru can hack it. The end." and leave it there for me to ever consider it to be one of the absolute worst conclusions and for people mentioning Kratos vs. Asura? Oh lord...

With that, I feel like it's only necessary to speak on what has happened basically in the wake of the teaser and is still continuing on. For those who have read this far? I don't know, quote either of the two movies. Also, be aware that I'm not going to try and pin this all on people based on this idea that DevilArtemis was forced out. To clear that up very quickly? He wasn't. He was already wanting to move away from Death Battle to focus on his own projects, the only thing the negativity directed at him did was cement his position. Though we will mention aspects of that in that discussion because what I've basically seen is EXACTLY what he mentioned was a problem in his now deleted letter.

The fingerpointing that has been done has not solved anything or helped anyone. The point is and always will be you just should not be a dick. Frankly, wielding DevilArtemis' name like a cudgel against criticism or just repeatedly bringing it up which pushes the narrative that he was forced out is ridiculous.

That being said? I think we all need to check ourselves before saying anything. A continuing problem I've noticed occur throughout many communities is that many don't seem to actually know what criticism is or how to give it. I find this especially exists for those who are trying to follow the brutal honesty line for criticism because more often than not, too much emphasis is placed on the "brutal" side of things without considering anything else. It's okay to just straight-up say you don't like an episode or even that it sucks but it's a whole other thing to really rag on it like it's the worst thing ever or even just disparage people who liked it.

As I said in a post about criticism a good ways back, brutal honesty is all about the two words you see. You're pulling no punches in your criticisms. However, brutal honesty also needs to be done with a deft and careful hand because otherwise, what you're doing is not really criticizing but rather you're basically embodying the AVGN without stopping to consider how that dude is a character and that a good deal of his more exaggerated persona is intended for humor above all else.

And combine that with how most people don't actually know enough about animation, writing and so on to give feedback like the kind someone's asking for? What you end up with is a lot of people just devolving into attacks and dooming rather than actually criticizing to the point where proper defenses that are put out just get met with more backlash.

I mean to be blunt, the arguments I've seen against one of the people who worked on the episode who made the note of just how much had to be done for this specifically are plain bullshit. Some come from a solid place like pointing out how time could've been spent not on cutaways but other aspects of the fight but at other points? I've seen people treat this as though they're brushing this all off when they're specifically responding to people who keep saying things like "Oh they should've done this in 2D or sprites, then they could've made everything!" when... that's not how that works. I almost guarantee people saying that are often just thinking about how cool one episode turned out and not about all that went into it.

It really brings to mind when people would say things like "bring back the old animators!" back when Dragon Ball Super was airing and thanks to its cramped schedule had many of its earlier episodes release with rather appalling art and animation quality. This was despite the fact many of the animators working on it did in fact work on Dragon Ball Z but also it was forgetting that DBZ itself suffered from its own issues which resulted in poor quality work and nostalgia smoothing over those rough edges.

There's also the nature of why DA does get brought up or at least what I feel is often being missed and could be talked about. Speaking as someone who has been watching Death Battle since season 1, got into checking out the likes of Biff Weed and other reviewers around season 8 or so? Poor behavior in the community would be something that I'd hear about a lot. I'd even hear about it in particular from Death Battle themselves.

I can't recall which episode it was but there were at least two Death Battle Casts where one of the people who was a part of it noted that they had not seen Dragon Ball but that they were a moderator from around the time Goku vs. Superman really exploded and the level of vitriol they saw hurled at the crew, at him and so many others just in response to that particular outcome led to him admitting that while it was not the show's fault? He probably was gonna try his best to stay as far away from it because of the bad memories associated with the abuse hurled. I'd heard also about how some people had, after watching Jason vs. Michael, started screaming for Torrian to come back. There was also one guy who full-on said that Death Battle should've stayed dead after Omni-Man vs. Bardock and I could go on and on but we'd be here forever.

This is where these points get frustrating. At the end of the day, the people who work on this show are human beings. They are allowed to defend their work. We are also allowed to contest things and discuss but we need to come at it from a fair spot and most importantly, we need to treat those working on the show as human beings deserving of respect. With Kratos vs. Asura, it's especially maddening to see people still throwing that episode out there while ignoring it was a VERY special case for why that turned out the way it did and it's missing how before we got to genuine criticisms, we had to sift through so much of just screaming at DA for the episode and the episode itself. Frankly, this really brings to mind a point that DevilArtemis made that I think deserves more shine and attention because it's ESPECIALLY relevant:

"The point is that when a community consistently behaves like this, there are consequences. People burn out. People walk away. And eventually, creators stop wanting to engage at all.

Genuinely insulting someone doesn’t make them work harder for you.

This doesnt apply just to Devil Artemis. It applies to anyone.

Try to understand that When a creator is repeatedly disrespected across multiple platforms by a loud group of random people, why should that creator feel like they owe those people anything?

Genuinely think about that.

Criticism is 1000% fine. Disrespect isn’t."

In other words, constantly ragging on an episode or the crew because you're dissatisfied is not criticism. To be ESPECIALLY blunt, Death Battle is under no obligation to make the show for us. They technically once they've made the episodes promised by the Kickstarter and the Champion's Island winner can just say "Welp, that's it." and just close up shop and I think there's especially something to be said when the crew outright chose to make this episode as a thanks for those who saved it only to be met with excessive flak being thrown their way.

And before ANYONE says, no. If you were not involved in that? I'm not talking about you, you genuinely have not a single reason to jump in and say. I also know people who just hurl abuse anyway will likely never listen nor am I trying to use this to deflect any valid criticism. I'm not addressing this with that intention. I'm addressing it because I think the sentiment should be shared. If you don't like some episodes? That's great, express that disdain. I certainly have expressed it a few times. It's okay to also make criticisms and more. All that needs to be kept in mind is the simple message.

Just don't be a dick.

This was going to be something else. Initially I planned on this post being me giving constructive criticism in regards to one of my favorite animators on the show. However, I thought that I didn't necessarily feel like inviting some of the responses that would bring right now so instead, chose to do this. As the title suggests, basically I'm asking about a personal problem you have with the show that is mostly specific to you.

To open the floor by referring to the blurred image of Gray vs. Esdeath in the background? I have a personal hang-up not with the episode itself but rather the animation style.

I am really not a fan of the puppet rigging style of animation for sprites. In fact, it's safe to say my response to the majority of the time this style has been used is more I tolerate it and appreciate elements than I fully love them. Can I appreciate episodes with it? Absolutely and I recognize the strengths that this style has. Sprite animations before Death Battle and even quite a few now usually rely on what the sprites provide. It's very frequent that for a character like say, Ryu from Street Fighter, him relaxed would just be him in his idle animation with the animation just expecting us to go with it and never bother questioning this detail. There were also several limitations in regards to how certain characters would move, how creative one would have to get with certain sprites and of course custom spriting was usually limited to what was needed. Puppet rigging on the other hand really allows for much more expressive animation that at many points can really take advantage of the inherent charm sprites have while raising that bar.

That being said? I'd be lying if I didn't just admit that I generally prefer to get custom sprites and creative use of sprites for that gestural movement with maybe the occasional subtle puppet rigging to enhance motion instead of the approach that I've seen used a lot which are full puppet rigs used for sprites that look good but more often than not, it leaves the motion looking distractingly stiff in my eyes. I mean, they're called puppet rigs but too many times, the puppet aspect is too prominent and it means many episodes that use this style are at a disadvantage with me.

I'm personally pretty annoyed that I had to hop onto the Wayback Machine to grab this stuff but I'm glad it's there.

So before anyone asks? Yes, this is kind of a small vent. No, this is not me trying to put anyone down for having criticisms for the model and I'm certainly not trying to put down criticisms of Death Battle in general. However, already some of the discourse I've seen over this is kind of ridiculous and I felt like giving my two cents.

First, this is a single screencap taken from what is a pretty brief clip. As someone who has seen this happen in the anime community several times over? You CANNOT get a grasp of quality from a simple screencap and when one watches the motion? It overall looks fine. Yes, the model of Gru looks a bit off but really? This was always gonna be the deal with the choice to go 3D. Despicable Me and Megamind have NEVER had great publicly available models with the latter primarily having a PS3-era model while the former only got mobile games. The one in particular people have been sharing is even missing his scarf and the textures don't look particularly appealing and the game I've seen people ask about, Minion Rush, has ONLY had Gru appear in screencaps from the movie, meaning there is no 3D model.

Thing is, that's not what's gonna matter. What will matter most is how well they can animate the fight and capture Gru's personality within the limitations of a Death Battle which brings me to another point.

Jank in 3D Death Battles is NOTHING new. Even DevilArtemis, good as he is, has not been safe from jank. Season 2 of Death Battle had some insane choreography but consistently pretty jank visuals. I really don't understand why this keeps being a thing. Not every Death Battle can look like Ruby vs. Maka. Hell EVEN some of the most well-regarded battles still have jank to them and because I've seen it come up, I know that I'm using examples from season 2 but that's to serve as a reminder to people for HOW long it's been a part of Death Battle. Torrian I often see propped up on a sort of pedestal for his amazing choreography with episodes singled out for looking particularly bad. This is in part to help highlight that a good deal of his episodes have NEVER been strong on the visual front but thanks to solid choreography and motion, you ignore the weaker elements.

As for the other point I've seen brought up, no, just because some of the models you see here are considered ugly by you and others doesn't make them not jank. Setting aside how it's a subjective opinion, the models shown here are genuinely solid in their own games with the proper lighting, animation and more. However, taken out of that and put into programs that, while solid, have their large variety of quirks with them having to be done on quite tight schedules? Jank will come about.